Chemistry of Paint & Pigments

[Turtle]

;) ___I'm no chemist; it is one of my weakest areas of knowledge. I have a passing knowledge of chemistry however through the vein of geology, & this brings us to the point of this thread.

___Last year I began painting, an art I had seldom practised, and I chose acrylic paint on canvas as my media. My subject matter(visit the Science Gallery) requires vivid color, at least I prefer it, & being a novice I had to evaluate the available products in the store. Without naming names, I found a considerable difference in price for an equal volume tube of acrylic paint; anywhere from $5 a tube to $13. Why the difference?

___Well, as far as I have determined, it has to do with the pigment used. For example, I bought "Cadmium" Red, Orange, & Yellow as opposed to the same colors not using Cadmium. Plenty of warnings on the tube concerning the toxicity of Cadmium.

____The upshot is, the other pigments simply do not have the vibrancy & color retention as their Cadmium pigment counterparts. What to do?

___In reading one of the biographies on Leonardo DaVinci, they presented considerable discussion on his mastery of making paints & it all just seems a fascinating body of knowledge now that I have started painting. Any chemists care to comment?

[UncleAl]

Use what you desire for your art. Ignore the Enviro-whiners. Don't put brushes in your mouth.

[Buffy]

Use what you desire for your art. Ignore the Enviro-whiners. Don't put brushes in your mouth.

That's right. If you are truly commited to your art, you should be willing to die for it anyway....Lead will give you brighter colors and if you're into texture, you can do interesting things with fiberglass and asbestos too.... :eek:

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[Turtle]

___Well Buff that is probably a bit of tounge in cheek huh? Nonetheless, I as an artist admit to an obsessive/compulsive element in producing art, but I try to keep in mind that fact & not create a hazardous condition.

___As UncleAl suggested, I don't put my brushes in my mouth, & I wash up my equipment & self. So far, the paints I'm using don't have lead, but as I mentioned the red, orange & yellow contain Cadmium. The black has a warning too, but as far as I can tell it concerns the carbon black ingredient.

___I was painting with green yesterday, & it has no warnings on the tube except to say it contains 'Acrylic Polymer Emulsion'. This green however is not as creamy & homogenous as the other colors I have used & it has a lumpy & almost grainy texture. I don't know if it has to do with the pigment or the polymer mix. :eek:

[C1ay]

:eek: ___I'm no chemist; it is one of my weakest areas of knowledge. I have a passing knowledge of chemistry however through the vein of geology, & this brings us to the point of this thread.

___Last year I began painting, an art I had seldom practised, and I chose acrylic paint on canvas as my media. My subject matter(visit the Science Gallery) requires vivid color, at least I prefer it, & being a novice I had to evaluate the available products in the store. Without naming names, I found a considerable difference in price for an equal volume tube of acrylic paint; anywhere from $5 a tube to $13. Why the difference?

___Well, as far as I have determined, it has to do with the pigment used. For example, I bought "Cadmium" Red, Orange, & Yellow as opposed to the same colors not using Cadmium. Plenty of warnings on the tube concerning the toxicity of Cadmium.

____The upshot is, the other pigments simply do not have the vibrancy & color retention as their Cadmium pigment counterparts. What to do?

___In reading one of the biographies on Leonardo DaVinci, they presented considerable discussion on his mastery of making paints & it all just seems a fascinating body of knowledge now that I have started painting. Any chemists care to comment?

 

There is a vast variety of compositions used to produce paint. Most of these paints you are using a really just some type of plastic resin with a some coloring pigments. Plastic resins come in a wide variety and a wide price range. There are also numerous pigments used to produce colors with some much more vivid than alternatives. The rarity of some of these will drive the price up. Imagine using saffron for pigment where the Saffron filaments, or threads, are actually the dried stigmas of the saffron flower, "Crocus Sativus Linneaus". Each flower contains only three stigmas. These threads must be picked from each flower by hand, and more than 75,000 of these flowers are needed to produce just one pound of Saffron filaments, making it the world?s most precious spice. This would produce a pigment more more expensive than using something like red food coloring dye.

[Buffy]

Tongue firmly in cheek!

 

My daughter could also advise you on many edible pigments including ketchup, mustard, chocolate, grape juice, cranberry juice, and mom could contribute red wine...

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[Turtle]

___I wonder how those foods would work on canvas? Really interesting concept Buffy! No, I'm serious...mmmmm...

___Have you tried any of the Oregon Pinot Noirs? Very good!

___I'm seeing a Christmas painting done in grass stains & Pinot Noir!

___That Saffron too maybe for a 2025 painting of Fall Leaves. The Saffron plant is a memeber of the Crocus family; some varieties are poisonous.

[akcapr]

cadmium is a pretty rare element so pigment with it would be expensive, the non-creamy green paint is probably due to the chunks of polymer.

[C1ay]

cadmium is a pretty rare element so pigment with it would be expensive, the non-creamy green paint is probably due to the chunks of polymer.

Some of these prices don't look too bad....

[akcapr]

well its in pretty small amounts

[Turtle]

___Thanks akcapr; do you paint? I am in the process of moving but my painting is now 7/8 done. I like it enough I think I will do another as the paint goes pretty far. :naughty:

[C1ay]

___Thanks akcapr; do you paint? I am in the process of moving but my painting is now 7/8 done. I like it enough I think I will do another as the paint goes pretty far. :naughty:

The post that broke the palindrome.....

[akcapr]

actually i dont paint. i did a couple times

[Turtle]

___A benefactor bought for me a new blank canvas & 2 tubes of paint. :hyper: One the gray I discussed earlier, & a tube of Titanium White. The Titanium White tube says no known acute or chronic health hazzards from the titanium dioxide pigment; cost, $4.99 US :hihi:

[Turtle]

___I finished my first ever painting 1 week ago. I figure I spent at least 25 hours on it & this time is chaotically spread over about a year as best as I can remember. The specific subject matter I hinted about is of course a Katabatak graph. The painting is on a 24x30 (inches) canvas & composed of 4,165 squares in 7 different colors.

___Segway to brain chemistry to make this look relavent now. How to relate the original value of the chemicals & their dangerous toxicity or lack thereof involed in producing the pigments & polymers to any value in the painting I produced using them? To whit, do I post a photo of my painting or not? How or even does this decision affect any value of said painting? How do I justify myself as a minimalist in now "having" or "acquiring" a piece of art which others may or may not attribute value to?

___Discuss. :)

[Turtle]

___I was painting with green yesterday, & it has no warnings on the tube except to say it contains 'Acrylic Polymer Emulsion'. This green however is not as creamy & homogenous as the other colors I have used & it has a lumpy & almost grainy texture. I don't know if it has to do with the pigment or the polymer mix. :hihi:

 

___I have painted every day save one for the last month-and-a-half or so; often it is just 10 or 15 minutes, never more than 30. This time I have a little record book where I keep accurate account.

___Anyway, my current painting is a study in red & green & I don't like the depth of the green even after 2 coats. Today I received some misdirected doll & went for bier, tobacco, new canvass & paint. I bought more green from a different manufacture but with the same title "Permanent Green Light"; I don't know yet if it has a lumpy polymer, but it lists these pigments:

Chlorinated Copper Phthalocyanine & Benzimdazalone Yellow

___I intended to buy a 4x5 foot canvas but the place I received a ride to didn't have that; they did have square canvasses though, so I purchased 2, 24"x24" packaged together.

___Keepin' it chemical & my brushes out of my mouth. ;)

Turtle Out

[Chacmool]

___I finished my first ever painting 1 week ago. I figure I spent at least 25 hours on it & this time is chaotically spread over about a year as best as I can remember. The specific subject matter I hinted about is of course a Katabatak graph. The painting is on a 24x30 (inches) canvas & composed of 4,165 squares in 7 different colors.

___Segway to brain chemistry to make this look relavent now. How to relate the original value of the chemicals & their dangerous toxicity or lack thereof involed in producing the pigments & polymers to any value in the painting I produced using them? To whit, do I post a photo of my painting or not? How or even does this decision affect any value of said painting? How do I justify myself as a minimalist in now "having" or "acquiring" a piece of art which others may or may not attribute value to?

___Discuss. :eek_big:

Regrettably, I only saw this post now. First of all: congratulations on finishing your first ever painting! It must have been quite an intense experience, eh?

 

In my opinion, all art is subjective. Is a painting automatically good because it was done by a famous painter? Or do we judge it on merit? And who gets to decide on the merits?

 

I believe your painting is relevant because a) it illustrates an interesting topic (Katabatak), :eek2: it represents a year in the life of a valued member of Hypography, and c) it was done by the famous Turtle! :eek:

 

So please do post a photo - it is sure to be of value to many of us here!