Aliens Poll

[Thunderbird]

I have always found these types of statements and questions presumptive “Do you believe in U f O‘s ?” “ Do you believe in God ? “UFO’s are real” “God is real” First off UFO stands for unidentified flying object, so do I believe people see things they cannot identify ?..... of course. Does this mean that they are extraterrestrials visiting earth ? I do not have any evidence to make that leap in logic. If someone has an experience that they feel is a spiritual one from outside of the self, and then conclude that it is direct evidence of an all powerful universal being, this is also the same kind of leap in logic. Why not speak of these things for what they are, unknowns, and leave it at that and focus on what we do know instead.

 

BTW my cousin worked at area 51 and even though he is very closed mouthed about what went on. I do know that he worked on weapon systems, not aliens.

[Boerseun]

Nutron, I don't really understand your problem with this.

 

Considering the existence of aliens based on our knowledge of the only known planet harbouring life is entirely credible. Scientific principles and natural forces hold true all over the universe. Those same principles and forces led to our existence. In a similar planet, there's no reason to believe that it won't lead to life. At the very least, discussing possible alien life gives valuable insight into local Earthlife.

 

The "philosophical" God you want to derail this thread with, is a totally different concept. There is no known natural law or process or principle that will lead to the existence of this extraordinary being you propose. And we can't assume or even consider the existence of Gods anywhere else in the universe based on our current knowledge, because currently, empirically, we know of none so far.

 

I don't know (and don't really care anymore) if you understand this, but the difference between considering possible aliens and possible gods is so vast and far removed that there's no comparison.

 

The one is POSSIBLE given our current understanding of the universe, the other NOT.

 

So get over it.

[Thunderbird]

Nutron, I don't really understand your problem with this.

 

Considering the existence of aliens based on our knowledge of the only known planet harbouring life is entirely credible. Scientific principles and natural forces hold true all over the universe. Those same principles and forces led to our existence. In a similar planet, there's no reason to believe that it won't lead to life. At the very least, discussing possible alien life gives valuable insight into local Earthlife.

 

The "philosophical" God you want to derail this thread with, is a totally different concept. There is no known natural law or process or principle that will lead to the existence of this extraordinary being you propose. And we can't assume or even consider the existence of Gods anywhere else in the universe based on our current knowledge, because currently, empirically, we know of none so far.

 

I don't know (and don't really care anymore) if you understand this, but the difference between considering possible aliens and possible gods is so vast and far removed that there's no comparison.

 

The one is POSSIBLE given our current understanding of the universe, the other NOT.

 

So get over it.

Getting back to the subject of the thread. What I have difficulty is in the connection of "UFO" with extraterrestrials. From the evidence we have I would say the universe is full of life. I do not see this has anything to do with seeing things in the sky, or even stories of abduction, has anything to do with aliens from another planet. We have no idea about what form highly evolved life from another world would be like. I think we are projecting are own views about technology and space travel and weaving it into a mythology.

[Moontanman]

I am not a biochemist, but this just sounds wrong. The four bases are adenine, cytosine, guanine, and thymine. Uracil is used in RNA. What are the other fifteen bases?

 

In the following link you will find that the scientists looked at more than 3600 bases to find a new base pair that would work with our type of life's cellular machinery. Different DNA might require new cellular machinery but it's doesn't mean our four are the only four or even the most likely four.

 

Artificial letters added to life's alphabet - tech - 30 January 2008 - New Scientist Tech

[Moontanman]

Getting back to the subject of the thread. What I have difficulty is in the connection of "UFO" with extraterrestrials. From the evidence we have I would say the universe is full of life. I do not see this has anything to do with seeing things in the sky, or even stories of abduction, has anything to do with aliens from another planet. We have no idea about what form highly evolved life from another world would be like. I think we are projecting are own views about technology and space travel and weaving it into a mythology.

 

I have to agree that what you say is very much possible. I have often wondered why UFOs seem to project our own future technology and why the aliens seem to look like us. In the late 19th century there were several UFO sightings and the UFOs were described as being blimps than had to throw down an anchor to stop and other wise operated like some sort of sky version of a sailing ship. At the time blimps were being designed but their descriptions were often less than accurate and usually followed the idea of blimps somehow being similar to sailing ships. It seems more than little suggestive that the reports may have been inspired by what the people thought some future technology might look like.

[Turtle]

Getting back to the subject of the thread. What I have difficulty is in the connection of "UFO" with extraterrestrials. From the evidence we have I would say the universe is full of life. I do not see this has anything to do with seeing things in the sky, or even stories of abduction, has anything to do with aliens from another planet. We have no idea about what form highly evolved life from another world would be like. I think we are projecting are own views about technology and space travel and weaving it into a mythology.

 

The prime connection I believe, and the one that Mitchell referred to, is the crash at Roswell New Mexico in 1947. As time has passed, the people who were there and or otherwise involved officially have aged, retired, and started talking. Roswell's a subject of such great complexity, that I think it is too broad & deep for this thread. :Alien:

 

Here's something from the casebook: >> 1952 Washington D.C. Sightings, UFO Casebook Files

 

Of course, with our oldest human stories telling of gods & angels from the skys, we're pretty well primed for the idea I'd say. :confused::shrug::phones: :Alien: We turtles enjoy hearing your fanciful myths as we let you ride atop our backs. ;)

[nutronjon]

Nutron, I don't really understand your problem with this.

 

Considering the existence of aliens based on our knowledge of the only known planet harbouring life is entirely credible. Scientific principles and natural forces hold true all over the universe. Those same principles and forces led to our existence. In a similar planet, there's no reason to believe that it won't lead to life. At the very least, discussing possible alien life gives valuable insight into local Earthlife.

 

The "philosophical" God you want to derail this thread with, is a totally different concept. There is no known natural law or process or principle that will lead to the existence of this extraordinary being you propose. And we can't assume or even consider the existence of Gods anywhere else in the universe based on our current knowledge, because currently, empirically, we know of none so far.

 

I don't know (and don't really care anymore) if you understand this, but the difference between considering possible aliens and possible gods is so vast and far removed that there's no comparison.

 

The one is POSSIBLE given our current understanding of the universe, the other NOT.

 

So get over it.

 

Good manners are the same, no matter what the subject is. I haven't seen anyone calling another person's post trash in this thread.

 

Thunderbird, you make a good point as you speak of the site where the US was working on flying saucers for military reasons, and they welcomed talk of UFO's that helped keep their secret, secret.

[nutronjon]

Have you linked to this site yet?

 

Military Nuclear Specialists Testify To UFO Reality

From: Disclosure Project <[email protected]>

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:48:31 -0500

Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:40:13 -0400

Subject: Military Nuclear Specialists Testify To UFO Reality

 

 

 

Military Nuclear Specialists Testify To UFO Reality

The Disclosure Project - Home Page

 

 

Several military and intelligence witnesses who were Strategic

Air Command ...SAC) and other nuclear specialists have come

forward with testimony proving that UFOs are real and appear to

be concerned about our nuclear weapons.

 

The Disclosure Project ...The Disclosure Project - Home Page) hasobtained the first-hand testimony of several such insiders whose

documents and corroborating testimony proves that UFOs have

monitored sensitive nuclear facilities since at least the 1950s.

While the UFOs were not hostile, it was made clear that they

were very concerned about human weapons of mass destruction.On one occasion, UFOs over a SAC Nuclear launch area tookmore than a dozen intercontinental ballistic missiles ...ICBMs)offline.

 

Lt. Colonel Dwynne Arneson: US Air Force ...ret.): "I was the

top-secret control officer at Malmstom AFB for the 20th Air

Division. I happened to see a message that came through my

communications center. It said...that 'A UFO was seen near

missile silos'...and it was hovering. It said that the crew

going on duty and the crew coming off duty all saw the UFO just

hovering in mid-air. It was a metallic circular object and from

what I understand, the missiles were all shut down. What I mean

by 'missiles going down' is that they went dead. And something

turned those missiles off, so they couldn't be put back in a

mode for launching."

 

Captain Robert Salas: USAF SAC Missile Launch Officer [1964-

1971]: "The UFO incident happened on the morning of March 16,

1967... on duty at Oscar Flight as part of the 490th strategic

missile squad and there are five launch control facilities

assigned to that particular squadron... and I received a call

from my topside security guard...and he said that he and some of

the guards had been observing some strange lights flying around

the site around the launch control facility. I said, you mean

UFO? He said, well, he didn't know what they were but they were

lights and were flying around. They were not airplanes; They

were not helicopters. They weren't making any noise... [A little

later] our missiles started shutting down one by one. By

shutting down, I mean they went into a "no-go" condition meaning

they could not be launched. These weapons were Minuteman One

missiles and were of course nuclear-tipped warhead

missiles...this incident was of extreme concern to SAC

headquarters because they couldn't explain it."

Military Nuclear Specialists Testify To UFO Reality

[nutronjon]

I think you all will find the follow site very interesting. It explains who the US brought German scientist into the US and continued to work on UFO's.

 

THE NAZI UFO SECRET

 

Another site talks about the US Star Wars program in such shocking terms I question its credibility, so I am not posting it. I just mention it, because perhaps we should know more about what our government is doing, than we do. Interestingly the new laser weapons are essential to arming an UFO, because explosive weapons are a problem for UFO's.

 

My father worked on the Star Wars project during the Clinton administration, and I sure he could tell me what he knows. His expertise was mental intrigity, and he played an important role in sending Apollo to the moon.

[Giles Corey]

In my opinion regarding Ufo sightings,

As long as photoshop exists and people of all ages and positions crave attention like blubbering 4 year olds, Ill wait untill ill see the flying paper plates myself.

~Giles Corey

[Moontanman]

Nutron, there is really no reason at all to believe any of the stuff in the links you gave. It's all simply thrice told tales with no corroborating evidence at all. It's sad that such stuff is listed on the net as the truth but it is, watch your pocket book, usually there is a plea for money in them somewhere.

 

Giles, while I agree that since photo shop became pretty much a standard believing a UFO pic is iffy to say the least. But a great many really good pics were taken way before any possible photo shop was available. I've seen some recent films that if they had come out 30 years ago they would have been proff positive that aliens were here but as we know these are photo shoped or CGI films

 

UFOs are an odd phenomenon that can be as much in the eye of the beholder as nuts and bolts alien space craft. I've seen pictures and read reports from very reputable people that simply cannot be explained away due to lack of info or as misidentified aircraft. does this mean they were aliens? No it doesn't prove anything except the is a very unusual phenomenon that needs to be studied by unbiased people. Personally i think we may find they are inhabitants of our solar system, not FTL star travelers. Assuming of course they are real. One thing is for sure they are not secret NAZI aircraft (god knows the legend of the NAZIs grows bigger with each generation since the war if the NAZIs were capable of half the stuff they are rumored to have developed during WW11 we would have lost hands down!) some may be secret military craft of one nation or another misidentified as to shape and performance or they could be natural phenomena we don't know about or understand. One thing that can be seen in reports is that one report will spawn dozens if not hundreds of false or misidentified reports. The trick will be to separate the chaff from the grain.

[Thunderbird]

The prime connection I believe, and the one that Mitchell referred to, is the crash at Roswell New Mexico in 1947. As time has passed, the people who were there and or otherwise involved officially have aged, retired, and started talking. Roswell's a subject of such great complexity, that I think it is too broad & deep for this thread. :Alien:

 

Here's something from the casebook: >> 1952 Washington D.C. Sightings, UFO Casebook Files

 

Of course, with our oldest human stories telling of gods & angels from the skys, we're pretty well primed for the idea I'd say. :Alien: We turtles enjoy hearing your fanciful myths as we let you ride atop our backs. ;)

In 1947 the military was at a height of paranoia and deception. The after shocks of WW2 was deeply embedded in the minds of the American public. The fear of invasion loomed on the horizon. The influence and control of the military industrial complex partnered with covert/counter intelligence agencies began to work together to keep top secret experiments out of the light of scrutiny and into the darkness covert operations. They needed a plan. The best way to keep a secret is to create a more titillating one as a diversion. This is called counter intelligence. The dissemination of false information that serves a dual purpose. Not only as a diversion from the real experiments taking place, but more importantly creating the proper mood of fear of invasion of an enemy that can then set into motion, and to grease the wheels for adequate funding needed for the real research into weapon systems for defense.

 

Do you not think it is a little too coincidental that the Roswell incident just happened of all places to take place in the same area the military does its most top secret work ?

[Moontanman]

There were UFOs before Roswell for some examples see these links.

 

The Aurora, Texas UFO Crash of 1897

 

1941-Cape Girardeau, Missouri Crash

 

battle of LA

[Thunderbird]

:Alien:

There were UFOs before Roswell for some examples see these links.

 

The Aurora, Texas UFO Crash of 1897

 

 

"that a slow moving space ship crashed into a windmill, bursting into pieces."

 

[Thunderbird]

There were UFOs before Roswell for some examples see these links.

 

 

 

1941-Cape Girardeau, Missouri Crash

 

 

 

 

“Huffman claimed that he was summoned to pray over crash victims outside of Cape Girardeau, Missouri in 1941.”

 

“He was sworn to secrecy by military personnel after performing his Christian duties”

:confused::hihi:

[Thunderbird]

There were UFOs before Roswell for some examples see these links.

 

 

 

battle of LA

 

“The thump of the batteries and the ignition of the aerial shells reverberated from one end of LA to the other as the gun crews easily landed scores of what many termed "direct hits"....all to no avail.”

 

 

“

gunners commenced firing hundreds and hundreds of rounds up toward the glowing ship”

 

 

“Whatever it was, it was a sitting duck for the guns of the 37th. Photographs showed shells bursting all around it. A Los Angeles Herald Express staffer said he was sure many shells hit it directly. He was amazed it had not been shot down.

The object that triggered the air raid alarm had drawn 1430 rounds of ammunition from the coast artillery, to no effect.”

Well hell, all they needed to do was hit it with a windmill.

[Moontanman]

:Alien:

 

"that a slow moving space ship crashed into a windmill, bursting into pieces."

 

 

Hey, I'm just the messenger I don't know how fragile a crashing space ship is, maybe it's deflector shields had failed?