Aliens Poll

[Biochemist]

I'm not one much for the sweets, maybe a nice single malt scotch on the othe rhand....

You are certainly invited as well. That would be a great evening.

[Vishesh]

Most scientists believe that if we ever find life on other planet,they will mostly be bugs and insects (for those of you who have read Dan Brown's Deception Point)

 

Astrobiologists & science buffs all agreed that given the sheer numbers and adaptability of earth's insects,extraterrestrial life would in all probability be buglife if it were ever discovered.

 

 

 

Vishesh

[Tormod]

Most scientists believe that if we ever find life on other planet,they will mostly be bugs and insects (for those of you who have read Dan Brown's Deception Point)

 

Now that's a good science source if I've ever seen any. :)

 

Dan Brown's contribution to science is perhaps similar to what we'd have if Carl Sagan had written a book on child psychiatry....

[sanctus]

Buffy, in your poll there is missing an option Iwanted to choose something in between "..they have visited" and "they never have visited". Simply, if I don't have no proof that they visited but thinik it to be so I needed "..they maybe have visited". Anyway I was very scientific and voted saying that they never visited.

 

About the UFO seeings in the 40thies, there is a theory I don't believe in but it is quite interesting.4 years ago I found myself with a censored book in my hands (I was very surprised, I thought censured books existed only during the middle age with the church) intitled something like "die Technologie der SS (=the tecnology of the SS)" and in there they stated that theSS built some UFOs (circualr form etc.) and there were even some kind of plans in it... the author then sustained that this explains how many high SS-oficers got to south america and that those UFOs were the sightings of the UFO in the 40ies..... (I figured out that the book was censured for SS-propaganda,but a part from praysing their "high tecnology"-and if it were so the US would have had no chance- there was no ideology stuff whatsoever;so maybe the church still has its hand in censoring).

 

And Paultrr, I envy you I would have liked to see an UFO knowing that iti is one as well one day, well I'm 23 still got time to see one.

[nkt]

Dan Brown's contribution to science is perhaps similar to what we'd have if Carl Sagan had written a book on child psychiatry....

What a perfect analogy! I quit reading The Da Vinci Code after the first "science" explaination.

 

 

As for aliens, I voted yes, they visit. Look at it from a human point of view. If we found out there was inteligent life on Saturn, we would move heaven and earth (literally) to go and take a look. Once we got there, we would assess the threat. If there was no threat because they were still only in the iron age, we would probably talk a bit before making contact, especially if they seemed war-like and capable.

 

Now, giving a bunch of xeno-phobes space travel and nuke+ level weapons would NOT be a smart thing to do, and by making contact, you are risking just that.

 

Are humans xenophobes? Well, we don't even treat all humans nicely, based on things like skin colour, political stance, gender, even. We kill everything, then strip-mine what's left, to produce, essentially, more humans living on welfare. Would you give a race like us, that has power-mad people running the places that matter, and blackmailing people into starting and aiding wars, the power to destroy your home planet and strip mine it later?

 

Thought not!

[Zohaar818]

http://ufocasebook.com/abduction1.html

 

http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/newsd/mich/implants.html

 

http://www.ancientwisdom.net/speakers/leir/rogerLeir.html

 

http://www.global-conspiracies.com/aliens.htm

 

http://www.tracieaustin.com/findparanormalguests/drrogerleir.asp

 

I post these links because skeptics usually demand the physical evidence backing up an extraordinary claim such as 'alien abduction'.

 

Given the overwhelming [and accumulating] evidence of unexplained phenomena in our skies as captured on film and confirmed by high ranking military officials of both the US and allied gov'ts..also the recent decision by Brazil's gov't to open up its UFO files..[reason being, they can't deny the obvious any longer and want an explanation]..not to mention the unbroken chain of anecdotal, historical and archeological evidence dating back more than 50 centuries of extraterrestial visitation..yes, including the abduction stories in the Old testament and the Koran..why do some still doubt...and what alternative [earth-bound/earth-centric] theory do they propose that would explain the facts in front of them...?

Really curious.

 

-Zohaar

[sanctus]

Zohaar, I didn't read your links yet, but if what you say is true why doesn't the big majoritiy believe it? I mean imagine an UFO comes and it is clear to all that it is one, then the info about that would circule the earth in a time like the info of the tsunami... it hasn't happened so all the sources seem not to be that thrustful anymore.

[Zohaar818]

Zohaar, I didn't read your links yet, but if what you say is true why doesn't the big majoritiy believe it? I mean imagine an UFO comes and it is clear to all that it is one, then the info about that would circule the earth in a time like the info of the tsunami... it hasn't happened so all the sources seem not to be that thrustful anymore.

 

As if this poll was scientific...OY! Well..I think it's because most folks here are American and that would explain a lot of the skepticism...and of course there are a few 'scientists'who have been raised to believe this is all stuff and nonsense..

 

I often ask what would it take..or who would have to come forward and say it in order for non-believers to change their minds and believe it... high ranking military officials in your own armed services? if so go here:

 

http://www.topsecrettestimony.com/6monthsummary.htm

 

Would a nulcear power and allied gov't going public with their own view that UFO's are visiting [have visited] and that they are not of earthly origin convince anyone?

 

http://www.rense.com/general65/braz.htm

 

How about the evidence being quoted in your own newspapers?

 

http://www.ob1.com/fyfecow.html

http://www.crystalinks.com/animal_mutilation.html

 

Or the records left by your ancestors?

 

http://www.vibrani.com/Anunnaki.htm

http://www.marsearthconnection.com/ancientart.html

http://ufoevidence.conforums.com/

 

Honestly, that there is even a doubt or a notion in any thinking person;s head as to whether the phenomena is real or not just confirms to me what an isolated, mind-f***ed population the majority of Americans are..to believe the Bible is the word of God but that the photos, the radar transcripts, the generals, the gov't ministers..And your own eyes ARE DECEIVING YOU...

I guess it must all be the work of the Devil..right?

[nkt]

Yes, but people seem to believe what politicians say, yet we all know when they are lying - you can see their lips moving!

 

I think the majority of people just don't think about it. They just watch the X-files or the 4400, but they never think of the implications or discuss them with anyone else.

 

I find it sad that most people don't ever focus on the slightly bigger questions in life.

[Zohaar818]

I have a theory of what lies behind the high-minded skepticism which many 'scientists' ascribe to in relation to UFO-ology.

 

I goes like this; most scientists can only achieve their degrees by first mastering the State [or in some countries..Church] approved theories and proofs of theory to explain life, the universe and everything. [ No wonder almost every new scientific finding or discovery comes with the phrase 'scientists were surpised by the finding'..]

At best the majority of scientists can only hope to stretch the limits or bring new life to old established theories..not turn convention on its head as happens every hundred years or so...[Newton, Einstein, et al]

So for the most part, not only do they suffer from indoctrination, they also tend to stubbornly cling to pet theories for to admit after twenty years of preaching the gospel of science that the science was wrong is akin to admitting you've wasted your life..and who wants to admit that?

It is to admit that all of those fancy letters after your name and all those awards and certificates, diplomas and club memberships are ..well..frauds..since the honors received were based on work promoting, defending, teaching or writing about a theory or set of theories that has all been proven wrong by new evidence. And in some cases it goes against the spiritual ideals of the supposedly objective scientific heart and mind.

I am old enough to remember the tests I had to take in school, the correct answers to which were that earth was not just the only habitable planet in the universe, but that our solar system was unique in having planets.. that nothing could travel beyond the speed of light, that there was no water on the moon...

God forbid I wrote the wrong answers...

So I passed my science exams thinking I now knew what there was to know about the constants in the universe..except that now..being 50..I am suddenly told that there are at least 100 known planets in solar systems other than our own..meaning virtually every star has planets in orbit...that there is indeed water on the moon..and that light is travelling at different speeds in different corners of the universe..as it always did.

So...you'll forgive me if I don't put my entire faith in the scientists knowing any more about the reality of things..like Creation..or UFO's than the Bible-beaters.

if you took a rock that was 3 billion years old and introduced life on it [as in terra forming] and every once in awhile dropped in to see how the project was coming along and to make updates or improvements...as i presume happened in our case..well wouldn't it stand to reason that the 'evolutionary record' would be skewed?

That's what i think our 'evolutionary and geologic record' shows..and the anomalies are bits and pieces of things left behind on field trips..as well as the quite natural results of unexpected planetary upheavals or collisions.

But more imprtantly.with the advent of quantum physics..the whole basis for skepticism on the grounds that the distances are too far to travel collapses. between super-string theory and the zero point field there is no longer any theoretical prohibition to interstellar travel.if the electric universe theorists are right then even 'distance'is going to have to be rethought as well as radio-carbon dating.and the way the sun works.[!!!]

 

And then you have the enexplained phenomena caught on tape, radar, live TV...surely there is a theory that scientists have about it all..but the minute one joins the wagon for open disucssion about what's up his colleagues banish him from the fold..revoke his club membership, sabotage his tenure...deride him for his lack of objectivity..call him terrible names, insult his integrity..and why?

None of those actions by themselves counter the evidence at hand..it is just a way of shooting the messenger if you ask me...punishment for breaking the code.

 

'They'would much prefer you and me argue about trivia and worldly nonsense than get involved in questioning the 'powers that be' about things over which they have no control and cannot explain.

[infamous]

I have a theory of what lies behind the high-minded skepticism which many 'scientists' ascribe to in relation to UFO-ology.

 

 

'They'would much prefer you and me argue about trivia and worldly nonsense than get involved in questioning the 'powers that be' about things over which they have no control and cannot explain.

There is a great deal of turth in what you say, it is without question that the established order is difficult to change. It is certainly impossible to change minds without proof, and for this reason proof is the exact remedy to the problem. But I agree also that many times research is either not undertaken or ignored once undertaken by those in meager standing. The remedy again must be undeniable proof, without which no change is possible. Great men of the past have dedicated themselves to the percute of an idea, sacrificing not only there careers, their families, and their health to pursue their idea. It's hard work and nothing we can say or do will make it any easier. So my suggestion to anyone thats wants to change the mindset of the established order, it will take dedication, hard work and endurance, nothing else will attain unto success.

[Zohaar818]

The remedy again must be undeniable proof, without which no change is possible. Great men of the past have dedicated themselves to the percute of an idea, sacrificing not only there careers, their families, and their health to pursue their idea. It's hard work and nothing we can say or do will make it any easier. So my suggestion to anyone thats wants to change the mindset of the established order, it will take dedication, hard work and endurance, nothing else will attain unto success.

 

So the argument comes down to what is the difference between evidence [of the unexplained] and 'proof '. Just having a whole truckload of videos and radar print-outs showing UFO's and detailing their impossible flight paths apparently isn't enough to sway the minds of the nay-sayers.

http://www.ufoarea.com/events_belgium.html

 

And even the open admission from foreign [allied] gov'ts that they fully believe the UFO-ologists who insist the phenomena being reported are from out of this world doesn't seem to matter to the nay-sayers. Frankly, to disbelieve nuclear powers which are friendly seems to be founded in cultural [racial!?] bias and not on scientific principle...so many times in discussions like these when I bring up the belgians, peruvians, mexicans, Brazilians..the respondents roll their eyes like I should know better than to put so much stock in 2nd or 3rd class countries or minds

 

http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=914&category=Environment

 

Nor is eyewitness [sworn] testimony from those Americans we select to guard our national frontiers enough to sway them..:

http://www.topsecrettestimony.com/6monthsummary.htm

 

All of this evidence being cited ad nauseum..scientists all going ooh and ahhh and ummm..and not putting forth any eartthboiund explanations..but happy to tell us thet UFO's are nonsense..make-believe..the product of idle or addled minds..

 

So I ask you ..besides all the evidence for which there is no earth bound explanation..what is the threshold, the barrier..what standard do we have to reach in order to make the jump from evidence to proof. Just curious.

People believe in God on less evidence..they convict people of capital crimes on less evdicence..declare war and invade countries on less evidence....

It is astonishing that in this day and age there are still those out there who prefer denial over enlightenment...

-Sincerely

-Zohaar

[Jay-qu]

you might be going a little far in saying enlightenment, besides people are allowed to beleive what they want.

it might not be that they are been totally ignorant either, some people (like me) dont just take what other people tell me to be fact very readily - i have to go through the whole thing 'from first principles' and derive my own meaning. thats just my spin on it anyway...

[infamous]

So the argument comes down to what is the difference between evidence [of the unexplained] and 'proof '. Just having a whole truckload of videos and radar print-outs showing UFO's and detailing their impossible flight paths apparently isn't enough to sway the minds of the nay-sayers.

 

Just one note here Zohaar818; I'm sure that if you understood the first sentences of my previous post, you would have no reason to include me in with that group of nay-sayers .

The truth is, I have had my own experience as witness to such events. Nevertheless, because I have no proof, knowing that my testimony will hold little water, I resist trying to force it down the throats of those in desperate denial. Having said that, I would give a great deal to possess such proof, carrying the knowledge and mystery of my experience has been a burden to say the least.

[Zohaar818]

Just one note here Zohaar818; I'm sure that if you understood the first sentences of my previous post, you would have no reason to include me in with that group of nay-sayers .

The truth is, I have had my own experience as witness to such events. Nevertheless, because I have no proof, knowing that my testimony will hold little water, I resist trying to force it down the throats of those in desperate denial. Having said that, I would give a great deal to possess such proof, carrying the knowledge and mystery of my experience has been a burden to say the least.

 

Dear Infamous,

 

I think we have a slight musinderstanding here..if you read my post again, although I did quote you I wasn't including you as a nay sayer..I was more or less agreeing with you.

Like you, I have my own expereince to reconcile..it was part of what set me to thinking about everything I had been taught about 'reality'. what I experienced seemed to be out of the bounds of everyday [common sense] possibility...unless..unless...

So I did my research.not as a true believer, not as an unbeliever...skeptical but willing to keep an open mind. Science, at the time, was against me..[my experience dates to 1979]...and we didn't have internet. There weren't that many credible books on the subject. But there were a load of anamalies to be found in the record..archeological mostly, but also some holes in the knowleldge base of the Darwinian/Einsteinian scientific community.

Time has moved on..science now knows no theoretical barrier to interdimensional travel..we find water on half the moons in the solar system [including our own] and more than a hundred planets outside of our solar system of which we've only recently become aware..and we have allied gov'ts finally breaking with old Cold War codes of silence about the UFO's which many respected and verified sources are providing evidence of..in films, radar transcripts, military personell coming forward and reports being declassified.

We have the testimony of our anccestors..and we have police officials filing reports of cattle mutilations the likes of which cannot be explained conventionally.

When read as an actual account of first interstellar contact the Bible makes much more sense..certainly Genesis.

 

i could go on and on..but won't..it really is a matter of faith..and an argument of this nature always ends up as being another battleground for the war of souls..of who are you going to believ..and what evidence is sufficient enough for any one person to believe..who is the most authoritative..would you believe George Bush if he came out and said, guess what folks..God has an air force and they are not of this earth..or would it have to be the Pope...

 

-Zohaar

 

PS--Again, i did not mean for my words to come across as negatively intended and personal.

 

-Sincerely

[WhitePhoenix]

Common guys....there has to be some other life out there...I belive there is both intelligent and other species that would fall into some microbial category. We can't be the only life sustaining planet in the universe. We are just a pin prick in the so called veil of space. To think otherwise would be a complete lack of logic. Whether or not they have visited us is something I like to leave up to the trailer park dwellers. If one drinks enough moonshine who knows what that person sees.

[spennithorne]

Bulls**t. Crash dummies and weather balloons--all Air Force experiments, and you know it. And the delusions of yellow journalism leading to instances of mass hysteria. Grow up.