Kites & kiting

[Turtle]

I see an issue with the first link, it seems to me differences in elevation between observers would skew results...and it's very hilly here.

 

 

Yeah; it's no walk in the park a'right. :huh: Turning my little turtle brain to mush I'll tell ya. :blink: I would just go fly a kite but I got no wind. Maybe this evening. I'm off to review my all-night infrared recording of the sky and see if I caught a meteor or 2.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Hope you saw some, friggen rain has obscured every opportunity to see them, my pops had better weather where his RV is parked, but despite clear skies saw none as well.

 

You ain't kiddin...sitting here playing with a combination square...for fabrication work it's protractor is as useless as it is cumbersome and set up in the most ridiculous manner....but fitted with a barrel site (a piece of copper tube brazed on) the full length of the flat of the dial itself (not the ruler) and with a bit of ingenuity put into play to make a stand, it's dial and level could be put to good use for sighting and determining the angle to the kite.

 

 

 

Now here's a more proper setup....think I'll get one.

 

Edited August 15, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[Turtle]

Hope you saw some, friggen rain has obscured every opportunity to see them, my pops had better weather where his RV is parked, but despite clear skies saw none as well.

 

You ain't kiddin...sitting here playing with a combination square...for fabrication work it's protractor is as useless as it is cumbersome and set up in the most ridiculous manner....but fitted with a barrel site (a piece of copper tube brazed on) the full length of the flat of the dial itself (not the ruler) and with a bit of ingenuity put into play to make a stand, it's dial and level could be put to good use for sighting and determining the angle to the kite.

 

 

 

Now here's a more proper setup....think I'll get one.

 

 

Hot melt glue for your tube-sight so you don't mess up the tool. I have a very nice one of those rotating heads and didn't think of it for clinometer.

 

Here's what I have now. On sale $12 US.

 

Angle Finder

 

 

 

No meteors, but I still have several hours of recording to review. Even speeded up, 20 minutes of staring has me bug-eyed & I have to break. Cloudy now, possible overnight drizzles.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Meh, it's a cheap tool, and I don't like it anyway. I'm going to disassemble it and braze it on....I expect it'll see much more use and be more valuable as a sight....(examines the tool more closely)...ehrm...maybe I won't braze it...you knew didn't you...while it tastes and looks like iron, it is most certainly a cheap white metal...soldering is an option but brazing is most certainly out.

[Turtle]

Meh, it's a cheap tool, and I don't like it anyway. I'm going to disassemble it and braze it on....I expect it'll see much more use and be more valuable as a sight....(examines the tool more closely)...ehrm...maybe I won't braze it...you knew didn't you...while it tastes and looks like iron, it is most certainly a cheap white metal...soldering is an option but brazing is most certainly out.

 

No; I didn't know it was El Cheapo. Moreover, mine is a finely machined steel Brown & Sharpe circa 40's or 50's. Ergo, your brazing suggestion struck me as blasphemeyish heresy. :naughty:

 

I'm sure they have been used in kite construction many times, as evidenced by this doctored article. :rolleyes:

Brown & Sharp @ Winky

...

 

During the 19th and 20th centuries, Brown & Sharpe was one of the best-known and most influential machine tool builders and was a leading manufacturer of instruments for machinists (such as micrometers and indicators) and kite builders. ^{[Just kidding about the kites, but it could happen. lol]} Its reputation and influence were such that its name is often considered to be inseparably paired with certain industrial standards that it helped establish, including:

 

The American wire gauge (AWG) standards for wire;<li>The Brown & Sharpe taper in machine tool spindle tapers; and<li>The Brown & Sharpe worm threadform for worm gears.Since being acquired by Hexagon Metrology in 2001, Brown and Sharpe has concentrated exclusively on metrology equipment.^[1]

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

No; I didn't know it was El Cheapo. Moreover, mine is a finely machined steel Brown & Sharpe circa 40's or 50's. Ergo, your brazing suggestion struck me as blasphemeyish heresy. :naughty:

 

I'm sure they have been used in kite construction many times, as evidenced by this doctored article. :rolleyes:

Brown & Sharp @ Winky

[/sup]

Yeah, it's a cheapy I bought for use in the shop (work). After repeated thefts of my tools over the years at work, and the grand finale of more than $2500 worth of tools disappearing between before lunch Friday when my last long term shop let me go and 9am that Saturday I resolved to only buy "disposable" tools for at work and save what's left of my quality tools strictly for home use. In total over the seven years I worked for them more than $4500 worth of tools vanished never to be seen again.

 

In the case of this combo square it was somewhere in the neighborhood of $10. My good square was $65 but I still don't like the way the protractor is set up....would prefer one like in the second pic i posted.

 

And Yes, if it were a good tool it would be not good to modify it.

 

 

 

[Turtle]

You couldn't buy a wind here for all the kites in China. :(

 

No worries, I was able to buy dowels instead. Nice to know something still costs less than a dollar. :lol: Well, 69¢ each for 10 1/4" x 36" and I had to sort twice that many to get 10 straight ones. That's enough to fix both Fort Warden box kites and leave me a spare.

 

Repaired the broken longeron on the winged-box with some glue and a couple splints. A little kite forensics has me thinking I never flew it with the wings because the detached wing and spar it goes to had no apparent staple holes. Maybe I broke the longeron by stepping on it or some other kiter's trick. Not a problem; I have a stapler.

 

Made up the new inside cross-spars and a new wing cross-spar and she's all ready to fly. Now about that wind...

 

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Had a two DSD train up earlier today, but then had errands to run...of course I get home and the wind is wandering and faltering...after tripping over a grill lid that I was using earlier as an anchor and going *** over tin cup, tried a few times more only to get chased by yellow jackets who finally did manage to ambush me on a run...multiple stings right on the ankle, again I go *** over tin cup trying to kill the miserable bastards before they can escape and come in for another attack...take a break and follow to miserable lil f****rs to their nest...I'm steamin mad and I now have the garden hose...they're gonna f'n pay royally...I open up on the nest, bits of it mixed with angry lil bastards fly every which way....kill kill kill KILL KILL KILL, KILL KILL KILL, KILL KILL KILL I'm on a mission. there will be no mercy. After thoroughly hosing and stomping the nests residents I finish it off.

 

Time to reattempt getting the double Delta back up....damn my granddaughter's here...there will be no relief from the ongoing issues preventing me from flying...of course she sees me trying to get the kites aloft, and having no experience flying one wants too....g-r-e-a-a-a-t....I explain to her the wind is not being cooperative, point to the tree tops and tell her that at the minimum she will have to get the kite that high before the wind will be any help at all and odds are it will change direction or die off completely before we get the kites up into the good air...she doesn't care she wants to try anyway so I hand her one of the other kites, being me (I always give people the benefit of the doubt before assuming them incompetent) I assume she has gleaned enough info of what she needs to do to get it up...So did she? Well sort of, she sets the kite down on the bush I was launching mine from and unrolls fifty feet or so of line out into the yard then walks back to the kite with winder in hand (she's close but a little off on grampa's technique so I say nothing and continue to fiddle with adjusting my lines),

 

Off she runs dragging the winder on the ground quickly she's halfway up the yard and finally the kite leaves it's perch..but she's not watching and it promptly tangles in my plum tree yanking the line out of her hand. Unaffected by the setback she picks the kite back up and resets, zip she's off again, the kite finally lifts and promptly ensnares the ladder to the pool...but she's stubborn and soon reset to try again. This time she "brakes" the line (like grampa) and the kite is soon thirty or so feet in the air, seeing this she stops running and it promptly comes back down...multiple more attempts we both finally give up as there is absolutely no trace of even the slightest breeze now. Oh well we'll try again tomorrow.

[Turtle]

Oh dear me for your fubs Double-D!!! :omg: But, yay for another undaunted kiter!!

 

I had better luck with the newly sticked /stuck winged-box. Went so well I almost dare not tell. :lol: I put on a 2-leg bridle but on testing for the knot-point the kite wanted the flying line so high on the bridle that the bottom segment hung limp the whole time. Effectively no bridle then. ::D

 

First video here, I tied my inclinometer to the leading longeron to find angle-of-attack. It varied from 30º to 40º

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfkPjidaG5k&feature=c4-overview&list=UUiDIgwwtUxDi7fxhELuBtxg

[Turtle]

Some of the grandkids got me a flag to fly on the line, and in this video I show how to attach a flag or banner to the line so that it flies 'upright'. I may have learned this from Hunt's 25 Kites That Fly, but may have not. No matter where, it's a peach of a little rig. Attach flag to a stick longer than the border, tie a string to top of stick and other end to flying line. Tie a longer string to bottom of stick and drape it back, tying the other end to the flying line and behind the top string tie.

 

Vid also shows the kite up about 100 ft.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbSNjZ0NgZk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUiDIgwwtUxDi7fxhELuBtxg

[Turtle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yswsp7LMwtc

[Racoon]

Thats awesome Turtle!

 

I can't wait until I get a chance to come over! :lol:

 

 

I wonder if you could fly a kite high enough into one of those 'Chemtrails' and capture some particulate matter?? Or would a such a container alter the kite's flight to a point of rendering that experiment impossible ??

 

 

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Looks like you had a good day at least...Flies nice....

 

Aside from the second half of my day, the first half went rather well.

 

I had little difficulty getting the two Deltas up in the first half. Really expected it to be more difficult than simply tying the upper kite to the center of the cross spar of the lower kite...was quite a hoot, the top kite would get rowdy and overfly the lower then the two would do a bit of a dogfight then sync up and dive across the wind sending me scramblin to get the line and encourage them to head back in a more upward direction (the line was secured to that grill cover I mentioned in the previous post), then they'd settle for a bit but more aerobatics would soon follow...oddly coinciding with me taking my eyes off of the sky to fiddle with the bridle on my diamond (which flies but still needs some tweaking). Hoping to have some useful wind tomorrow so I can try a longer lead between the Deltas....though I suspect the issues with the upper overflying the lower will be exaggerated by the longer line.

[Turtle]

Thats awesome Turtle!

 

I can't wait until I get a chance to come over! :lol:

 

 

I wonder if you could fly a kite high enough into one of those 'Chemtrails' and capture some particulate matter?? Or would a such a container alter the kite's flight to a point of rendering that experiment impossible ??

 

 

 

I can always use a ground crew. :) I was alone for the winged-box flying and shot all the vid hand-held. YouTube kept prompting me to let them 'fix' my shaky video. :lol:

 

So yes, in theory we could sample a contrail using a kite. In practice however, there's some problems. Flying a kite to 30,000 feet nothwithstanding, it's not a problem lifting the bottle up there, but being able to tell when its in a contrail. Then there is the little matter of violating FAA regs by flying a kite into an airway and endangering aircraft.

 

I earlier posted on some scientists using kites to take high-atmosphere measurements. It's in post # 118 . However, even they are not reaching 30,000 feet.

 

 

[Reprinted from Summit Magazine, Spring 1994]

 

The researchers launched the tandem kite system -- which was spooled by a hand-powered winch -- from an abandoned runway near the southern edge of the shoe-shaped island.The 2.2-mile height attained by the upper kite proved to be a new world record for parafoils. "Once it was up it just stayed there," he marvels. "It became obvious there is a natural niche for research kites."

...

The team successfully tested a new system at Cape Sable consisting of a single parafoil (made of waterproof Mylar this time) and a second kitelike device known as a "wind tram" designed by aerospace engineering graduate student Mike Jensen. About twice the size of a child's kite, the triangular wind tram was designed to fly up and down the main tether while lugging a 10-pound instrument box to measure pollution concentrations at varying altitudes.

 

If I ever get the math worked out for Double_D's 15000yd delta flight, I suspect he's not far off the 2-mile-high mark from his back yard. :omg: :lol:

[Turtle]

Here's my last vid from yesterday. It shows the launch and you can see how the lower bridle leg hangs loose. Dooooooes your bridle hang low, does it wobble to & fro, can you tie it in a knot can you tie it in a bow... :singer:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2KLyY92aVI&feature=c4-overview&list=UUiDIgwwtUxDi7fxhELuBtxg

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Thinking that while i find the upper kite's antics it might be more fun to have it behave, as in I'd like to be able to let out a lot of line and not have to worry about scrambling to pull in hundreds or even thousands of feet of line to get them back into stable flight...yesterdays flights found me racing the kites to get them within the borders of the kingdom of Arnvic before their unscheduled touchdown. Nicht so gut...Nicht ganz so gut überhaupt.

 

Am thinking reigning the upper in will resolve instability issues, first thought is to up the number of lines between kites from one to three or four, each of no more than a couple feet in length.

 

Here's the conundrum, should I go absolutely parallel to the lower kite or slightly up at the nose?

 

I'm thinking up a tad at the nose for the upper might be the ticket to higher altitudes....but on the other hand it may only encourage the kites to travel more horizontally....But the same characteristics could be attributed to an absolutely parallel arrangement....I dunno...plan z is to add rigid supports between the two Deltas creating a biplane of sorts...not quite a box kite, not exactly a conventional Delta arrangement....I dunno.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Another thought plaguing me as of late...I wonder if it's possible to weight a kite in such a manner as to result in the kite being carried off by the wind after being disenaged from the ground line (mental note, I hate spell-checkers, with a passion, if they don't know the word they should not highlight it I firmly believe they teach folk how NOT to spell by causing them to doubt the accuracy of their spelling. Followed by multiple attempts of incorrect spelling before breaking out the dictionary, googling, or just giving up.). I'm reminded of sea anchors, and contemplating the concept whereby the kite has slightly higher drag and the anchor at the end of a length of biodegradable line (kite and anchor would have to be biodegradable as well) with less drag hangs in a lower air current which has a different direction....the idea being to get the kite aloft in a high enough current to prevent the anchor from snagging objects on the ground and the anchor hanging in a lower air current that is either significantly slower in the same direction as the current the kite is in or in a different direction to provide the resistance needed for the kite to remain aloft...in addition to having enough drag the anchor would also need to be resistant enough to lift to prevent it from climbing to the same current the kite is riding, but not so resistant as to prevent it from getting high enough to clear ground based obstacles...Having been in situations where at ground level the line goes runs out from the spool in one direction while the kite is flying perpendicular and even 180 degrees opposite Ie. the line points from me east to the front of my property while the kite is a good distance to the north, west-nor-west and even due west, it seems possible...I dunno....I've always thought it would be nifty to send a kite off on an adventure to see where it would eventually end up...similar to the balloons and bottles I occasionally find with notes on or in them.

 

[Ramble over for now.]

Edited August 19, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD