Kites & kiting

[Turtle]

Another thought plaguing me as of late...I

[Ramble over for now.]

 

I have read your rambles & will do some checking on how to train deltas and free-flying with an anchor.

 

I took Alida and the box out last night and put my new lights on them. Wind would come & go so mostly I was walking up & down the lines putting one kite up, then heading to the other to put it up, while the first would come down. I can't fly above 500ft where I fly because of planes and I couldn't find good wind below that. Well, I did get a 20 min. slice of time with both up in the dark which was enough time to grab the cam & get some vid. All-in-all these little lights are not much of a display even at 150ft (or so) in altitude. Bummer! :(

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibTs4qhuZKg&feature=c4-overview&list=UUiDIgwwtUxDi7fxhELuBtxg

[Turtle]

Thinking that while i find the upper kite's antics it might be more fun to have it behave, as in I'd like to be able to let out a lot of line and not have to worry about scrambling to pull in hundreds or even thousands of feet of line to get them back into stable flight...yesterdays flights found me racing the kites to get them within the borders of the kingdom of Arnvic before their unscheduled touchdown. Nicht so gut...Nicht ganz so gut überhaupt.

 

Am thinking reigning the upper in will resolve instability issues, first thought is to up the number of lines between kites from one to three or four, each of no more than a couple feet in length.

 

Here's the conundrum, should I go absolutely parallel to the lower kite or slightly up at the nose?

 

I'm thinking up a tad at the nose for the upper might be the ticket to higher altitudes....but on the other hand it may only encourage the kites to travel more horizontally....But the same characteristics could be attributed to an absolutely parallel arrangement....I dunno...plan z is to add rigid supports between the two Deltas creating a biplane of sorts...not quite a box kite, not exactly a conventional Delta arrangement....I dunno.

 

:lol: The first part of this article on flying delta trains reads remarkably like your above. What follows in it may be of considerable help.

 

I have connected 2 box kites in tandem before, but I haven't tried training my kites so I have no first-hand advice. Rest assured you have inspired me to be trying a 2-train with the winged-box and Alida ASAP. :thumbs_up

 

Kite Trains

 

...

 

 

Dr Whirlwind's delta kite train

Note the "pilot" kite at the top. Trains need a small kite flying at some distance up to keep them on an even keel. The pilot is flown on regular light line; the main line for the train itself must be fairly heavy-duty. In Thorsten Schact's train, the line tension is carried through the kites, not by the kites. ...

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2013 by Turtle

[Turtle]

:lol: The first part of this article on flying delta trains reads remarkably like your above. What follows in it may be of considerable help.

 

I have connected 2 box kites in tandem before, but I haven't tried training my kites so I have no first-hand advice. Rest assured you have inspired me to be trying a 2-train with the winged-box and Alida ASAP. :thumbs_up

 

Kite Trains

 

Mmmmm...reading the article a bit further, I find another old kiter I met at Long Beach -Jack Van Gilder- is dead!! That's like 4 now. :rip:

 

Anyway, his delta-train set up sounds more up your alley Double-D. Note the addition of 'fringe' on trailing edges. More details at full article.

 

...

 

The better delta trains I've seen - (the late) Jack Van Gilder's in Washington (state) and Thorsten Schact's in Denmark - used kites designed for breezy weather, featuring forward towing points, longer-than-normal fins (Jack Van Gilder called his "oversized"), and extra trailing edge drag.

 

The Van Gilder train didn't have the extra outer lines connecting the spreader ends, and differed in other ways, too. The kites were attached to the main line with a short (12") tether, to allow for twist in the main line. The main line thus pierced the kite a bit further forward, and a slot gave flexibility of flying angle. Jack used a tiller hitch to attach one kite to another in the train, so individual kites could be removed from the train if necessary. Jack regularly flew over 100 46" span delta kites this way single-handedly.

 

 

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

:lol: The first part of this article on flying delta trains reads remarkably like your above. What follows in it may be of considerable help.

 

I have connected 2 box kites in tandem before, but I haven't tried training my kites so I have no first-hand advice. Rest assured you have inspired me to be trying a 2-train with the winged-box and Alida ASAP. :thumbs_up

 

Kite Trains

 

 

Dangs it, it didn't bring the pic.

 

You got me thinking....there might be a way to get a pilot kite up first then let subsequent kites slide up the line to join it...I think it would fall somewhere between a messenger and a train arrangement....perhaps with a small pulley arrangement on a swivel. drawing program is busting my balls image coming soon

 

 

 

[Turtle]

Dangs it, it didn't bring the pic.

 

You got me thinking....there might be a way to get a pilot kite up first then let subsequent kites slide up the line to join it...I think it would fall somewhere between a messenger and a train arrangement....perhaps with a small pulley arrangement on a swivel. drawing program is busting my balls image coming soon.

 

 

Careful where you slop that luck of yours! You got some on my wind. :omg:

 

It was up, down, around and through I tells ya. Crazy *** wind. Nontheless I did what I went for which was to test Matilda and her new spars. Found her Angle-of-Attack at the ground with the inclinometer; about 40º. Put her up on 175ft of line, and paced off about 75 ft from anchor to right below her. Now if I had only remembered to sight an angle... :lol:

 

Well, when the wind is steady, so is she. I did use holes in the cross bar 1" in from the end holes that had the sail taught. Wanted to let in some billow, and maybe even a bit more would be OK. As you can see from the vid, ain't nothin' bending!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT3cH-cBmsU&feature=c4-overview&list=UUiDIgwwtUxDi7fxhELuBtxg

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Yeah, you don't want my luck. Attempted to get the bidelta semibox up, managed one very short flight but enough to know the design will fly, but it was all south from there...my property is a meteorological enigma...to say the least...either that or the supreme being likes messing with me...wind in every yard around mine, wind in the front yard, zip zero zulch nadda outback, an occasional puff from random directions lasting just long enough to grab the line then nothing...go inside soon my trees are swaying my chimes are ringing, head back out the instant hand touches line dead. But more than plenty of wind in every other yard.

Edited August 20, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[Turtle]

I decided to re-stick the 6ft rhom-box longerons, as there is no good reason -other than weight- that it should not fly as well as the wing-box. I over-built for strong wind, using 1 1/4" x 3/4" birch ply, and now I'm stepping down to the 1/2" X 1/2" doug-fir that I started Matilda with. I have the old out, 1 new stick cut to length, and the 16 cross-spar blocks cut & ready for drilling.

 

Speaking of drilling, I put up a vid 5 years ago showing the use of bit & brace to bore holes, and it blew up this week when some YouTube star name Vsause used it in a video on the brain science of being bored. In two days I added thousands of views and hundreds of comments. I only bring it up because the hole I bore in the vid is for the rhom-box cross-strut. I'm getting the 15 minutes of fame Warhol promised me. :omg: :lol:

 

I should have it ready to try by this evening and hoping for the little wind that's been showing up for me. (Unruly as it is, I can work with it. ) We're about to cool off & cloud over soon with maybe some drizzles the next few days. It's only 75F now but supposed to hit 90F by 5pm.

 

Off to the drill press then.

 

PS I would be remiss if I didn't mention the Washington State International Kite Festival at Long Beach, Washington is going on all week. If you like crowds and long walks from your car to the beach lugging your kite stuff, then I highly recommend it. Otherwise, not.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Rode out to the peninsula today, needed to get out, good place to fly a kite, and folks were. Stopped to watch for a bit before hoppin back on the bike to enjoy the rest of the scenic ride around...very scenic, many scantily clad lasses reeking of coconut oil and sporting marvelous tans....ah, time well spent. Anyway very short walks from the road to the beach, good breezes coming off of the lake, and plenty of dunes to get up on for less traffic flow, more line clearance and of course the ideal spot to encourage ones skin to darken abiit whilst watching smokin hot maidens do the same.

Edited August 21, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[Turtle]

You know what to do.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQiT8qdCYd8&feature=c4-overview&list=UUiDIgwwtUxDi7fxhELuBtxg

 

Sucka leapt from my hand when the wind picked up. Alas, the wind didn't last. :(

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze3S7b3WlbQ&feature=c4-overview&list=UUiDIgwwtUxDi7fxhELuBtxg

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Lots of winds today, but swiftly changing directions, as in all points of the compass in about the same amount of time as it takes to read "all points of the compass in about the same time it takes to read read all points of the compass". I would head out to the peninsula but it sure do look like we're in for a doozy of a storm...not feelin like getting caught in it. Had the Bidelta Semibox up and flying well until the wind made up it's mind to wander. Flew quite well until the wandering winds planted it in a tree for the second time resulting in a torn upper wing. The first time slacking the line then giving it a good tug as the wind picked up resulted in the kite freeing itself rapidly then rapidly regaining altitude.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[Turtle]

Lots of winds today, but swiftly changing directions, as in all points of the compass in about the same amount of time as it takes to read "all points of the compass in about the same time it takes to read read all points of the compass". I would head out to the peninsula but it sure do look like we're in for a doozy of a storm...not feelin like getting caught in it. Had the Bidelta Semibox up and flying well until the wind made up it's mind to wander. Flew quite well until the wandering winds planted it in a tree for the second time resulting in a torn upper wing. The first time slacking the line then giving it a good tug as the wind picked up resulted in the kite freeing itself rapidly then rapidly regaining altitude.

 

 

 

That is an Awsome design DD!

 

No flying for me as I am beat! All the loading of the trike, the riding of the trike, the unloading at the field, the flying, the reloading, the re-riding and the re-unloading. Well, I am having more fun than I probably deserve, but I need to rest up. Both large kites are ready to loft my camera as soon as I get some steady wind however, so hopefully I can get some aerial vid soon.

 

I did some reading of the numerous links I have collected these past weeks, and here's one I particularly recommend. Peter Lynn has decades of experience and his writing is fun and informative.

 

>> Why Kites Don't Fly

[Turtle]

Reading Peter's monograph I ran across a likely cause for Matilda's tendency to lean to one side. [My Right, her Port.] It's probably that the Port wing is slightly larger than the Starboard, which cause more drag and a loss of lift. While she flies steady in a steady wind, she goes into a lean & turn when the wind speed changes. I may ultimately have to do a little trimming and re-sewing, but using tails may be a fix.

 

So I have been using 9ft strip tails, but during my reading I found a bit on tails on deltas which should also apply to the delta-conynes. Alas I can't find the link again so I' going to have to wing it. :doh: :lol: So what I read said the tails need to be long, hefty, and fringed. Long so the end droops, hefty so the tail works against kite misbehavior -like tipping & turning- and fringed so it gives some lift. Well, that's as best as I remember from one reading.

 

So, I now have a new 24 ft fringed tail. I used the polyester fabric that Matilda is made with and cut 2ft X 4inch strips. I then made 1" cuts spaced 1" apart along the length of both sides, and then sewed the strips end-to-end and alternated light-dark sides up & down. Towing end got a sewn loop and a 1/4" dowel through it and to the stick ends I tied a short bridle and put on a snap swivel.

 

I figure to fly the tail off the back 2 longerons joined with a bridle, and I'll set the attachment point a bit to Starboard to try & correct the leaning. Now I can just hurry up & wait for some wind to give it all a try.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Turtle

[Turtle]

The first aerial photo from a kite was snapped in the late 1880's by Arthur Batut. Here's a photo of his kite & camera rig and some of his noteage.

 

 

Source: Notes on Kite Aerial Photography

 

"Here we must mention an observation whose usefulness we often verified. If, due to the violence or irregularity of the wind, the kite should experience jolts, one must, some seconds before the shutter release (this being easy to estimate if we carefully measured the wick and took note of the exact time), walk in the direction of the wind with sufficient speed so that the kite has a tendency to come down. Under these conditions, it will recover the necessary stability to allow a successful photograph. This is, of course, only a palliative for rather unusual circumstances. As soon as we see the paper strip leave the kite (being released by the shutter), we will endeavor to bring the kite down. The operator who, during the ascension, will have come closer to his aide, will press alternatively each hand on the line while walking toward the kite. Little by little the kite will come down , and will be within hand reach without jolts."

 

I started work on a little carriage for my camera yesterday and hope to have it together by this even. More of that aluminum angle stock, some Plexiglass_® and a few nuts & bolts. Initially I will try attaching it directly to the cross-spar of the big DC, similar to Batut's setup -pictured above- of more than a hundred years ago. I expect to use the carriage in a variety of attachment schemes as well as a variety of purposes. Platform for instruments, seed drops, lights, etcetera. I'll get some pics up in a bit.

 

 

[Turtle]

Boo ya! How's this?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2ri4eTAV5Q&feature=c4-overview&list=UUiDIgwwtUxDi7fxhELuBtxg

Edited August 25, 2013 by Turtle

[Turtle]

I balanced the carriage [with camera mounted to it] on the cross-spar, then drilled it to match carriage. Gonna add not just weight, but some torque as well. I will see what I see. :shrug:

 

 

Then went on and built an attachment to allow hauling carriage up flying line. It attaches to the same holes used for cross-spar. Made up from plastic bottle, 1/4" dowel, little piece of d-fir, and 2 screw eyes with nuts.

 

Suggestions? Comments? Rotten fruit?

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

erm...i think I see frayed lines and possibly a bruised camera in your future....but, I haven't been in this particular type of rodeo for as long as you so I make no claims of certainty on the matter.

IMHO I'd have just screwed four smallish brass eyes to the wood...ideally of the type for running cable...instead of the bottle.

Edited August 25, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[Turtle]

erm...i think I see frayed lines and possibly a bruised camera in your future....but, I haven't been in this particular type of rodeo for as long as you so I make no claims of certainty on the matter.

IMHO I'd have just screwed four smallish brass eyes to the wood...ideally of the type for running cable...instead of the bottle.

 

Fraying & bruising possible if not likely. Acceptable risks. :P I built the big kites specifically to get the camera up and by gum, up it shall go or my name's not Jack! I did just notice the cross-spar is bent after just one flight. :omg: If the camera survives the fall, an onboard break-up & crash will make a great vid. :lightning

 

Screw eyes might work on my smaller line as it has no knots, but I need some size to get over the knots in the heavy line. I think I tied sheet-bends with overhand backing? I may have a go at redoing them with blood-knots.

 

That's all I got. :coffee_n_pc:

Edited August 25, 2013 by Turtle