Kites & kiting

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

ehrm...sir, why have you knots in your line?....and big knots at that? Must be quite sizeable for you not to be able to find suitable eye type fasteners

[JMJones0424]

I'm sorry for the off topic diversion, but I've got a novice kite question. The only kites I've ever flown are dime store diamonds and deltas. My brother and seven-year-old niece are coming over in a few weeks, and she's shown an affinity for flying kites in the past. Unfortunately, inland Texas summer winds aren't exactly conducive to kite flying. I've had success with diamonds in light and steady wind and deltas in more gusty wind, but I'd like to find a design that she can build and fly in light winds.

 

I've been looking at tetrahedral kites, specifically a Sierpenski triangle kite constructed from straws and strong thread for her to construct and hopefully, weather permitting, fly. Besides enjoying flying the kite, I'd like to imagine she'd enjoy constructing it and learning a bit about geometry and fractals. However, being a novice at kite construction and flying myself, I'm more interested in a finished product that is likely to fly rather than a teaching moment.

 

Is there a simple to build, relatively cheap kite design that I should be looking for other than a tetrahedral kite?

Edited August 26, 2013 by JMJones0424

[Turtle]

ehrm...sir, why have you knots in your line?....and big knots at that? Must be quite sizeable for you not to be able to find suitable eye type fasteners

 

Well, because I couldn't afford continuous line @ 14¢ /foot so I bought four 48 foot lengths @ 6¢ /foot. it's 1/8" braided nylon. :idea-may-be-knot: :lol:

 

My flying may be coming to some restrictions as I have been flying at a school-yard and I noticed yesterday that school is starting soon. :omg: Que sera sera.

[Turtle]

I'm sorry for the off topic diversion, but I've got a novice kite question. The only kites I've ever flown are dime store diamonds and deltas. My brother and seven-year-old niece are coming over in a few weeks, and she's shown an affinity for flying kites in the past. Unfortunately, inland Texas summer winds aren't exactly conducive to kite flying. I've had success with diamonds in light and steady wind and deltas in more gusty wind, but I'd like to find a design that she can build and fly in light winds.

 

I've been looking at tetrahedral kites, specifically a Sierpenski triangle kite constructed from straws and strong thread for her to construct and hopefully, weather permitting, fly. Besides enjoying flying the kite, I'd like to imagine she'd enjoy constructing it and learning a bit about geometry and fractals. However, being a novice at kite construction and flying myself, I'm more interested in a finished product that is likely to fly rather than a teaching moment.

 

Is there a simple to build, relatively cheap kite design that I should be looking for other than a tetrahedral kite?

 

Off topic? Diversion!? I could not have been happier than to see your post this morning.

 

I have never done a tetrahedral kite, but reading further at your link it looks like a good project for kids. The author links to a page documenting some 4^th graders' work on a 100-cell 'biggy'. >> 100 Cell Tetra Project Sounds like tetrahedral kites will fly in a light wind as long as the bridle is properly set so Bob's yer uncle. :)

 

By all means drop in to let us know what you settle on and give us all the particulars on the building and flying, and thanks for posting. :thumbs_up

Edited August 26, 2013 by Turtle

[Turtle]

Well nows, I have finally some aerial videography! It was a wild ride too I'll tell ya. :lightning

 

So I took all 4 kites. First I put up the 4ft winged-box to test the upper winds as things were rather gusty at the ground. Tied it off at 80ft of line and it was gusty up there too.

 

With that up I put the 14 ft delta-C together and bolted on the camera carriage. Twenty minutes of fussing around and I managed to snag a wing-tip on the ground and irreparably bend one of the wing-spars. :rant: Enough of that noise. I'm going to do away with the wing-spars and recut the wings to make it just a Conyne, aka French military kite.

 

So, with Matilda out of commission I decided to put together the rhombox and fly it in a 2-train with the winged-box piloting. During that assembly the winged-box came down once and I decided to leave it until I was ready to go with the rhombox. Darned if it didn't roll across the ground in a gust and go back up by itself. I got the big one together & tied it to my heavy knotted line and then put a ring in about 30ft from the kite and tied the line of the flying wing-box to it.

 

At first I tried my pulley rig, but the line I had for that slipped in between the pulley-wheel and the frame and jambed. Crap!! :rant: :lol: I settled on just putting the tow line through the ring and got to setting up the carriage. By now the 2 kites were dancing like aliens; up, down, & sideways. Started towing the camera up and the tow line snagged in the ring. :doh: Cut it off and put a different line on the carriage and just pulled it up by walking toward the kites. Like I said; it's going up by gum!!

 

Well, the vid tells most of the rest of the story. The winged-box had a wing come off the spar for about 8", but flew anyway. Then I noticed that 2 of the 4 strut assemblies had actually fallen out of the rhombox to the ground, but she flew anyway as well. The wind dropped, everything came down, and the football team started showing up for practice so I wrapped it all up and surrendered the field.

 

Guess that covers it except the laughing.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vStEvrQYJs&feature=c4-overview&list=UUiDIgwwtUxDi7fxhELuBtxg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naKw8G1YM3c&feature=c4-overview&list=UUiDIgwwtUxDi7fxhELuBtxg

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

I'm sorry for the off topic diversion, but I've got a novice kite question. The only kites I've ever flown are dime store diamonds and deltas. My brother and seven-year-old niece are coming over in a few weeks, and she's shown an affinity for flying kites in the past. Unfortunately, inland Texas summer winds aren't exactly conducive to kite flying. I've had success with diamonds in light and steady wind and deltas in more gusty wind, but I'd like to find a design that she can build and fly in light winds.

 

I've been looking at tetrahedral kites, specifically a Sierpenski triangle kite constructed from straws and strong thread for her to construct and hopefully, weather permitting, fly. Besides enjoying flying the kite, I'd like to imagine she'd enjoy constructing it and learning a bit about geometry and fractals. However, being a novice at kite construction and flying myself, I'm more interested in a finished product that is likely to fly rather than a teaching moment.

 

Is there a simple to build, relatively cheap kite design that I should be looking for other than a tetrahedral kite?

Snowflakes are pretty easy and do pretty well in light breezes...can be quite a handful for a youngster in a good breeze.

 

Do post pics on whatever you decide to do, (I'm sure Turtle said that already, but oh well I've said too, so there!)

 

 

 

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Well, because I couldn't afford continuous line @ 14¢ /foot so I bought four 48 foot lengths @ 6¢ /foot. it's 1/8" braided nylon. :idea-may-be-knot: :lol:

 

My flying may be coming to some restrictions as I have been flying at a school-yard and I noticed yesterday that school is starting soon. :omg: Que sera sera.

 

Not lookin in the right places methinx....2,000' spool X 1/8" = $44 or 2.2 cents per foot.

Found 1000' 550lb rated break strength parachute cord for $50

 

Perhaps you could fund yer kitin efforts by havin a good ol fashioned raffle or auction for a Turtle original Maybe even a nifty small Delta-Coyne. CF needs a craft store methinx...one specifically for goodies made by CF members....Was thinking about it before, am thinkin about it again.

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[Turtle]

Taking off where I left off, I left out some action. After I realized the rhombox was falling apart I brought it & the camera down, but the winged-box stayed up. It was still up after I collected the sticks -spread 30 yds away & apart- and rolled up the rhombox so I decided to have a go with the camera on the winged-box alone. It was flying pretty high on about 200ft of line & I started the backward-haul business with the carriage. As I pulled it up & out, the kite line would sag, I 'd give the tow some slack & all would spring up into the air. I repeated that action a few times and may have got the camera 60ft or so up.

 

Uploading the resulting chaotic video wherin the abrasions & collisions are self evident. Wear eye protection while watching. :Glasses: The camera has a shock sensor that will protect the hard-drive in the event of a too-severe shock and I appear to not have reached the limit with my ground impacts. The large plastic tube line-follower would not go over the highest knot. :rant: Not sure a blood-knot will be less abrupt, so maybe I'll stay with the sheet bends but whip the free-ends instead of backing with over-hands. Mr. Jones? You know something of knots. Any suggestions other than I should not knot?

 

Also attaching still of bent spar. Rats. :huh:

 

 

brb with vid. :coffee_n_pc:

[Turtle]

Not lookin in the right places methinx....2,000' spool X 1/8" = $44 or 2.2 cents per foot.

Found 1000' 550lb rated break strength parachute cord for $50

 

Perhaps you could fund yer kitin efforts by havin a good ol fashioned raffle or auction for a Turtle original Maybe even a nifty small Delta-Coyne. CF needs a craft store methinx...one specifically for goodies made by CF members....Was thinking about it before, am thinkin about it again.

 

Yeah, I haven't really looked beyond a couple places with hardware. I settled for what would work & for what I could afford now. I would like 500 to 600 ft of heavier line for the trains and big kites and for the carriage. Unless I drive somewhere, which is prohibitively expensive- I won't be flying above 500 feet anyway.

 

Raffle!? Me? It would be like giving away a child. :omg: Besides, it should be apparent that while my work looks good when going by on a galloping horse, it won't pass a close inspection. :hammer: The reason the winged-box wing came loose is that the staples pulled out.

 

 

 

PS the vid is still processing. Probably trying to figure out how to stabilize it.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Turtle

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Yeah, I haven't really looked beyond a couple places with hardware. I settled for what would work & for what I could afford now. I would like 500 to 600 ft of heavier line for the trains and big kites and for the carriage. Unless I drive somewhere, which is prohibitively expensive- I won't be flying above 500 feet anyway.

 

Raffle!? Me? It would be like giving away a child. :omg: Besides, it should be apparent that while my work looks good when going by on a galloping horse, it won't pass a close inspection. :hammer: The reason the winged-box wing came loose is that the staples pulled out.

 

 

 

PS the vid is still processing. Probably trying to figure out how to stabilize it.

Lol! I dunno...some of the stuff you've made has been pretty nifty.

 

What's this crap about an irrepairable spar? I'm callin bullplops on that one (lest ye forget I am a fella who's livelihood is metal work) Clamp that bastard in a vice between a couple wood blocks to get it close and then tweak it slightly beyond straight in the opposite direction of the bend. (doesn't look too bad to me)

Edited August 27, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[Turtle]

Lol! I dunno...some of the stuff you've made has been pretty nifty.

 

What's this crap about an irrepairable spar? I'm callin bullplops on that one (lest ye forget I am a fella who's livelihood is metal work) Clamp that bastard in a vice between a couple wood blocks to get it close and then tweak it slightly beyond straight in the opposite direction of the bend. (doesn't look too bad to me)

 

Thnx! Nifty is as nifty does as my mother never said.

 

I'll give that straightening technique a try. I'm really warming up to the idea of the straight Conyne though. The 14ft width is difficult to handle on the ground and I don't expect that to change. As a Conyne it is essentially a winged-box but with a triangular box, and I expect it will handle similarly. No wing spars means no bent or broken wing-spars. After all, it was a train of Conynes that Lawrence used to lift a 50lb camera over San Francisco in 1906. B) That the Navy used them as target practice attest to their durability under extreme duress. Not sure about the size of wing clippiage yet, but it is 6ft tall same as the rhombox.

 

Speaking of the rhombox, I think I need to add some little plugs inside the opposing socket holes on the cross-pieces. For the strut assemblies to have fallen out, they would have had to have been too loose and the socket-plugs will effectively lengthen the long struts and tighten things up. Still amazing that it was still flying without 2 struts, but it was looking like a bag of rags up there. :lol:

 

Damn video is still not processed! What the hell YouTube!!??? While we're still young?

[Turtle]

snip...

So I decided to have a go with the camera on the winged-box alone. It was flying pretty high on about 200ft of line & I started the backward-haul business with the carriage. As I pulled it up & out, the kite line would sag, I 'd give the tow some slack & all would spring up into the air. I repeated that action a few times and may have got the camera 60ft or so up.

snap...

Uploading the resulting chaotic video wherin the abrasions & collisions are self evident. Wear eye protection while watching. :Glasses:

 

brb with vid. :coffee_n_pc:

 

Here we goes then. Hold onto your stomach. B)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkBHVtHPZGE&feature=c4-overview&list=UUiDIgwwtUxDi7fxhELuBtxg

[LaurieAG]

Here we goes then. Hold onto your stomach. B)

Way to go Turtle, Cloverfield eat your heart out, was that Godzilla lurking in the grass?

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Lolz! Despite low productions values, I found the film to be riveting, a nonstop edge of the seat thriller, all in all I give it two thumds up. :D

 

 

I was thinkin....yeah, again, i know very dangerous, fire dept. showed up...false alarm...was encouraged to refrain from doing so in the future.

Anyway, haven't binged er googled yet...figured I'd ask you first...rigid carbon fiber kite with rigid aerogel core? or either or?

 

Aerogels have interesting properties, have even seen super rigid super light varieties....as I recall, on particularly hard variety was supposed to be capable of covering an entire football field (120yd X 53yd) to a thickness of what appeared to be 3mm for one kg...the geek on the tube then smacked it off the corner of a table with a loud clink....very impressive.

 

8242560 in/sq 8242560÷1000= 8242.56 in/sq per gram 1000÷8242.56 = 0.121321531 mg/sq/in ? ya?...maybe? I dunno....all I know for sure is that's really really light...just a ramble...adore exotic materials and dreamin up uses...tis my favorite past time....as the weather is preventing outside time, not much better to do. 400–1,000 m²/g is listed for carbon based. Aerographene has a lower density at 160 g/m3.

 

BTW, if you see errors in my math feel free to post correction including method.

Edited August 27, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[Turtle]

Lolz! Despite low productions values, I found the film to be riveting, a nonstop edge of the seat thriller, all in all I give it two thumds up. :D

 

We here at Turtle Productions® prefer the term 'inexpensive' to 'low production value'. We actually use shoestrings for some of the tie-ups.

 

 

I was thinkin....yeah, again, i know very dangerous, fire dept. showed up...false alarm...was encouraged to refrain from doing so in the future.

Anyway, haven't binged er googled yet...figured I'd ask you first...rigid carbon fiber kite with rigid aerogel core? or either or?

 

Aerogels have interesting properties, have even seen super rigid super light varieties....as I recall, on particularly hard variety was supposed to be capable of covering an entire football field (120yd X 53yd) to a thickness of what appeared to be 3mm for one kg...the geek on the tube then smacked it off the corner of a table with a loud clink....very impressive.

 

8242560 in/sq 8242560÷1000= 8242.56 in/sq per gram 1000÷8242.56 = 0.121321531 mg/sq/in ? ya?...maybe? I dunno....all I know for sure is that's really really light...just a ramble...adore exotic materials and dreamin up uses...tis my favorite past time....as the weather is preventing outside time, not much better to do. 400–1,000 m²/g is listed for carbon based. Aerographene has a lower density at 160 g/m3.

 

BTW, if you see errors in my math feel free to post correction including method.

 

Rigid kite...yes! Getting ahold of enough of those exotics to do it, not so much. :naughty: I was thinking myself -- that maybe a heavy foil could be used on a kite as in a scaled-down aircraft/airframe/wing. :shrug:

[Turtle]

Way to go Turtle, Cloverfield eat your heart out, was that Godzilla lurking in the grass?

 

:lol: I had to look up Cloverfield, but even then maybe I need to see the film to compare it to my video. I had a lot of video that I didn't post that was just the camera in the grass, and it put me in mind of the tiny-humans thread and our imaginings of 1" tall people. Be afraid. Be verrrry afraid!

 

 

Cool & cloudy here so no flying. I have a lot of repairs to do before I try anymore aerial cam and yesterday may have been the big hurrah in terms of flying at the school. I have to say on that note that the young people I ran into there were exceedingly polite. I got several "I like your kites", and when I cautioned a couple kids not to trip on the strings I got "sorry Sir". When I then said I just didn't want them to trip, I got "thank you!". G'donya youth!! :thumbs_up

[Turtle]

... Aerographene has a lower density at 160 g/m3.

 

...

 

Following from that link to aerographite, I find that the stuff has some interesting electrical properties too.

 

These walls are often discontinuous and contain wrinkled areas that improve the elastic properties of aerographite. The carbon bonding in aerographite has an sp² character, as confirmed by electron energy loss spectroscopy and electrical conductivity measurements. Upon external compression, the conductivity increases, along with material density, from ~0.2 S/m at 0.18 mg/cm³ to 0.8 S/m at 0.2 mg/cm³. ...

 

Now for sure an experiment with some of this as a kite sail is an experiment ol' Ben Franklin would approve. :lightning If any of you dear tender readers have access to some of this stuff, PM me and I'll arrange for you to ship it to me at your expense. :D

 

I went through the vids frame-by-frame. Try as I might I spotted no UFO's, though there's some suspicious clouds that alien craft could have been cloaked in. I found a fairly sharp frame that seems to be from the highest altitude that I reached. I'm guessing the gym is about 30ft tall.

 

That's enough. Get back to work. :coffee_n_pc: