Kites & kiting

[LaurieAG]

I did some searching as I have seen large spinners at kite festivals. I couldn't remember what they called them, and now think the term in favor is "spin tubes". Anyway, I ran across this site in the hunt & it is a cornucopia of kite supplies, lore, and downright crapulence & BS. Looking forward to your design. :lightning

 

Thanks Turtle, great site,

 

I was impressive by these kites so much that they pushed me onto another lateral branch of the solution, swivel dynamo's (which don't really exist yet).

 

There are quite a few 6V dynamo's around that could be adapted to operate as a swivel for a rotating kite. The physical resistence of the swivel would have to be such that it wouldn't cause the string to twist but should only cause the kite to spin.

 

The swivel generator could actually be imbedded in the kite (like an axel) or attached securely to the kite. 6V seems a bit low (?) so a slim custom swivel dynamo (12 V min) could be integrated completely into the kite (or Vs a Vs) although pushing a replaceable/discardable moulded foam spinner onto the swivel dynamo axis assembly would produce an easier to maintain/repair system.

 

The spinner kite could be moulded and include lights so that it looks like a flying saucer:hihi:, although this would be intended mainly as a beacon for other flying things. The shape of the moulded spinner kite would have to prevent undue noise during operation as you certainly wouldn't have something like a Bullroarer (music) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia anywhere near you unless you actually wanted to drive birds (and people) away.

 

BTW, I googled for kite generators and saw a few systems, some scams, some interesting, but nothing like what I have been thinking about. The scam (I hope it really wasn't a serious project) was a carousel with kites attached around its diameter and a hub generator at the center, that couldn't turn around 360 degrees unless the wind direction turns around 360 degrees.

[Turtle]

Thanks Turtle, great site,

 

...as you certainly wouldn't have something like a Bullroarer (music) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia anywhere near you unless you actually wanted to drive birds (and people) away. ...

 

Some creatures may find the bullroarer sound attractive rather than repulsive, but in the case of a certain rotten pumkin, my bullroarer meant the coup de gras. :lightning

 

YouTube - bullroarer vs. watermelon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OlxUsGMS0Y

[LaurieAG]

Some creatures may find the bullroarer sound attractive rather than repulsive, but in the case of a certain rotten pumkin, my bullroarer meant the coup de gras. :lightning

 

Good one Turtle,

 

And all of the rotten pumpkins sitting on top of poles the world over quiver in fear everywhere when they hear the sound of 'bink' as the dreaded bullroarer knocks away their support.

 

Their main purpose, apart from ceremonial initiations, was to drive birds out of an area into an ambush of sticks (and boomerangs). I don't think that a bird would hang around long enough to get hit, I know I wouldn't.

[Turtle]

Good one Turtle,

 

And all of the rotten pumpkins sitting on top of poles the world over quiver in fear everywhere when they hear the sound of 'bink' as the dreaded bullroarer knocks away their support.

 

Their main purpose, apart from ceremonial initiations, was to drive birds out of an area into an ambush of sticks (and boomerangs). I don't think that a bird would hang around long enough to get hit, I know I wouldn't.

 

:lightning The 'bink' is the bullroarer hitting the axe support after it sliced through the base of the fruit. Someone commented on the video at YouTube saying, "Disrespectful to the instrument, waste of food." I replied, "I brought a new degree of freedom to the instrument, thus honoring it, and I prepared the rotten melon for composting, thus honoring it."

 

Now this is a fascinating topic of sticks & string, and one that I have covered in some depth in another thread. As it is, the bullroarer is not unique to Austrailia, and neither is the boomerang or hunting sticks. By all means follow me over here to discuss this further: >> http://hypography.com/forums/physics-mathematics/1228-spinning-button-string.html

[Turtle]

;)

...

BTW, I googled for kite generators and saw a few systems, some scams, some interesting, but nothing like what I have been thinking about. The scam (I hope it really wasn't a serious project) was a carousel with kites attached around its diameter and a hub generator at the center, that couldn't turn around 360 degrees unless the wind direction turns around 360 degrees.

 

Hi Laurie. :) Today I searched the phrase "generating electricity by kite", and found some pages with several interesting kite power designs.

 

Electrical power generation using kites has been given a preliminary study by David D. Lang Associates, Seattle, on behalf of the Drachen Foundation. As its mandate, the Foundation seeks to increase and diffuse knowledge about kites worldwide. The study spans power levels from municipal to small domestic applications. Five schemes for power generation were identified and examined.

They were evaluated with 12 criteria: maximum power potential, scalability (ability to accommodate a range of power), practicality, potential for autonomous operation, manufacturing cost relative to return on investment,

prototyping cost, complexity, safety relative to design intent, environmental impact, accommodating wind variability, probability of success when demonstrated, and probability of operational success.

For convenience, the schemes were dubbed Ladder Mill, Reel, Fly Gen, Buggy, and Sail.

http://www.drachen.org/journals/a16/Using-kites-to-generate-electricity.pdf

 

And:

The Economist has an interesting article about different proposals to harvest wind energy from the jet stream (elevation: 10km). A San Diego' date=' CA company called Sky WindPower wants to send giant kite-turbines into the jet stream to generate power.

Mr Shepard’s flying generator looks like a cross between a kite and a helicopter. It has four rotors at the points of an H-shaped frame that is tethered to the ground by a long cable. The rotors act like the surface of a kite, providing the lift needed to keep the platform in the air. As they do so, they also turn dynamos that generate electricity. This power is transmitted to the ground through aluminium cables. Should there be a lull in the wind, the dynamos can be used in reverse as electric motors, to keep the generator airborne. ...[/quote']Kites fly in jet stream to generate electricity - Boing Boing

 

And:

Researchers in Italy have high hopes for a new wind-power generator that resembles a backyard drying rack on steroids. Despite its appearance, the Kite Wind Generator, or KiteGen for short, could produce as much energy as a nuclear power plant.

 

Here's how it works: When wind hits the KiteGen, kites spring from funnels at the ends of poles. For each kite, winches release a pair of high-resistance cables to control direction and angle. The kites are not your Saturday-afternoon park variety but similar to those used for kite surfing -- light and ultra-resistant, capable of reaching an altitude of 2,000 meters.

 

KiteGen's core is set in motion by the twirl of the kites; the rotation activates large alternators producing current. A control system on autopilot optimizes the flight pattern to maximize the juice produced as it sails on night and day. A radar system can redirect kites within seconds in case of any interference: oncoming helicopters, for example. Or small planes or even single birds. ...

Generating Power From Kites

 

There's more of course, (Results 1 - 10 of about 261,000 for generating electricity by kite), but that's enough to tug our lines for a while. ;) :)

[LaurieAG]

Thanks Turtle,

 

http://www.drachen.org/journals/a16/Using-kites-to-generate-electricity.pdf

 

None of these different designs have the generator in the actual kite being flown, they all use the action of the kite to produce a rotating motion on a reel or other object.

 

Kites fly in jet stream to generate electricity - Boing Boing

 

This is more like the flying kite generator but the length of the lines will cause problems.

 

Generating Power From Kites

 

This is interesting but it just uses the kites to spin a central hub. Manipulating the different kites in all kinds of winds would be interesting but would probably have to integrate some sort of breakability/redundancy in operational situations. i.e. you should only have to shut it down when you don't have enough kites to spin the hub.

 

"It's been called revolutionary, but I see it as part of a new energy future," said Ippolito,."

 

What else could you call something that spins on a central hub :)

[Turtle]

The unique configuration of the Columia River Gorge makes for high & steady winds. Sometimes East, sometimes West, they're some kind of rippers! Going on right now upstream of me is the Gorge Games and here is someone's YouTube clip of some big air kite-boarding.

 

I'm not up to that, but I am headed out tonight to an open field where I hope to catch some of this West wind and fly my golden-rhombus kite for the first time. Off I go then, like a kite in the wind. .......:cup:

 

YouTube - Big Air, Big Splash http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahe0DGvEV1c

channel: >> YouTube - kittyprozac's Channel

[Turtle]

We had a go at it and not enough wind for my kite. My buddy got his stunters up though, and here's a short vid. :cup: >>

 

Erhm...here's a vid shortly? :eek: technical difficulties...BRB

[Turtle]

YouTube - Kites http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhb_D9q3svc

[Turtle]

Hi Turtle,

 

I've been giving things a bit of deep thought, especially about simplicity and autonomy, and I think I may have an idea that puts everything together.

 

The means of providing the lift doesn't have to be that exotic, anything that generates lift will do (even a flying slab of foam) and the simpler generator the better.

 

So by combining the two, lift and power generation, into one, with the 'kite' something more like Leonardo's continuous (tapered) screw helicopter spinning on an axis (the two combined to form the generator, i.e. the screw spins on the axis, upside down?).

 

I'll draw some rough plans, make a working model and see how it goes.

 

check this!! well, i don't know what all the password malarky is about, but i saw a tv news story on this thing. they claimed they were in negotiation for funding from BPA, but i can find no web source on this except the link below.

 

so the claim was this generator machine would be tethered like a kite & flown in the jet stream where the energy density is high. it wasn't clear to me if they put power in to keep it aloft in no wind or not??? the guy did mention it would gyro-coptor down though. ;) anyway, given the unpredictability/unreliability of a stationary jet stream, i just don't see it. not to mention i think it's doomed to structural failure. no matter; enjoy. :) :)

 

https://baseloadenergy.com/

[LaurieAG]

Hi Turtle,

 

check this!! :rant: well, i don't know what all the password malarky is about, but i saw a tv news story on this thing. they claimed they were in negotiation for funding from BPA, but i can find no web source on this except the link below.

 

so the claim was this generator machine would be tethered like a kite & flown in the jet stream where the energy density is high. it wasn't clear to me if they put power in to keep it aloft in no wind or not??? the guy did mention it would gyro-coptor down though. :hihi: anyway, given the unpredictability/unreliability of a stationary jet stream, i just don't see it. not to mention i think it's doomed to structural failure. :hihi: no matter; enjoy. ;) :phones: :doh:

 

https://baseloadenergy.com/

 

I agree Turtle, a box kite with a wind generator would be a more structurally sound, safer and so much more economic base considering that their example had 4 tethers with presumably 4 high speed two way winch systems while the basic box kite only requires 1 tether and 1 winching system.

 

If they didn't have any sort of system to bring it down safely it either (a) won't be allowed to fly or (:) must be cheap enough to be replaced each time the wind drops. That's why I recon that a small trailer or rear of a utility vehicle could be fitted out with a battery pack and a self launch/self land high speed integrated power cable winch that could probably supply power for a couple of households from the top of a nearby hill.

 

So Turtle do you think you could put a wind turbine on a box kite that could be made from cheap solid materials (that crumble around the generator/rotors when they crash) that can be replaced easily when it crashes?

 

The idea would be to retreive itself before conditions cause it to fall and launch itself when conditions are favourable, thereby avoiding unnecessary crashes. In cases where the conditions are entirely unfavourable and a dead stall situation is predicted power transmission must switch off, the kite generator and tether must be allowed to drop to the ground limp.

 

I've done enough kite flying to know how really dangerous those tiny filaments of fast moving string can be when they come into contact with relatively stationary things made of flesh or blood.

[Turtle]

Hi Turtle,

 

hi laurie.

 

 

So Turtle do you think you could put a wind turbine on a box kite that could be made from cheap solid materials (that crumble around the generator/rotors when they crash) that can be replaced easily when it crashes?

 

The idea would be to retreive itself before conditions cause it to fall and launch itself when conditions are favourable, thereby avoiding unnecessary crashes. In cases where the conditions are entirely unfavourable and a dead stall situation is predicted power transmission must switch off, the kite generator and tether must be allowed to drop to the ground limp.

 

I've done enough kite flying to know how really dangerous those tiny filaments of fast moving string can be when they come into contact with relatively stationary things made of flesh or blood.

 

given what it takes to hands-on lauch and retrieve even my 6 foot box kite, i think having generators on kites is doomed to failure. that the company i listed is hiding their info unless you answer a bunch of questions is i think evidence that their project is half-baked and also doomed to failure. the guy from Baseload Energy that i saw interviewed, as i said earlier, claimed to have some funding or other support from a utility. i suspect he stretched the truth like a kite line, but if some utility really is funding him, then that utility board needs some revising.

 

given the 100+ years that we've had kites & generators extant at the same time, if the concept of joining them was viable then we'd have kite generators in service. we don't; it's not. :shrug:

[LaurieAG]

Hi Turtle,

 

given the 100+ years that we've had kites & generators extant at the same time, if the concept of joining them was viable then we'd have kite generators in service. we don't; it's not.

 

We have had things like windmills for many hundreds, even thousands, of years.

 

A kite generator is not much different.

 

It could be locked in to operate sitting stationary on its battery pack or unlocked for use in the air. The attached image is something similar to what I think could be a viable start point for a 'box' kite style design. While it isn't quite a box kite, more like a flying wing, it could be manufactured from very lightweight materials and operate successfully in low to high wind conditions with a maximum height of around 100m.

 

The way I look at it is that the wind generator in the kite converts the faster wind speed into electricity quicker. The kite is only used to position the wind generator at the height and direction for optimum electricity production, i.e. also with the strongest pull.

[TheBigDog]

A birthday gift for my hard shelled friend. Here is a gem of a picture from around 1977. My dad with his 14' box kite. I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread. This picture just surfaced while my sister is cleaning out her basement. Cool stuff.

[Turtle]

A birthday gift for my hard shelled friend. Here is a gem of a picture from around 1977. My dad with his 14' box kite. I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread. This picture just surfaced while my sister is cleaning out her basement. Cool stuff.

 

is that pvc pipe? how many times did it fly? stories! i need stories. :P :shrug:

[Turtle]

Got my kite on recently with some UFO discussions and can't shake it. I've needed a lightwind kite for years and spent the last couple days building a delta-Conyne. Sails are rip-stop mylar & plastic camp blankets/tarps and stick 1/4" wooden doweling. Test flight, thumbs up: :thumbs_up

 

Article is...well, as articles do. [bolding in quote is mine.]

 

Will try & get some video of my new kite in action as conditions allow.

 

What are y'all flying this year?

 

Ben Balsley, CIRES Scientist in the Field Gathering atmospheric dynamics data using KITES

 

[Reprinted from Summit Magazine, Spring 1994]

 

 

...

Since the effort demanded an exceptionally large and sturdy kite to loft the instruments and withstand the relentless winds, Balsley enlisted the help of noted kite designer William Tyrrell and aerodynamics expert Joe Williams of Doylestown, Pennsylvania. The result was two 8-by-17-foot nylon parafoils, one spaced about a mile above the other, and tethered by Kevlar string one-tenth of an inch in diameter.

Unlike most kites, the frameless parafoils consist of a series of hollow tubes resembling a raft that are inflated by the wind as the kite rises, explains Balsley. The space-age Kevlar material used to weave the tether -- the same material used in bulletproof vests -- has high strength but low shear, so even the tiniest knot in the line can snap it like a twig.

 

The researchers launched the tandem kite system -- which was spooled by a hand-powered winch -- from an abandoned runway near the southern edge of the shoe-shaped island. The 2.2-mile height attained by the upper kite proved to be a new world record for parafoils. "Once it was up it just stayed there," he marvels. "It became obvious there is a natural niche for research kites."

...

The team successfully tested a new system at Cape Sable consisting of a single parafoil (made of waterproof Mylar this time) and a second kitelike device known as a "wind tram" designed by aerospace engineering graduate student Mike Jensen. About twice the size of a child's kite, the triangular wind tram was designed to fly up and down the main tether while lugging a 10-pound instrument box to measure pollution concentrations at varying altitudes.

 

With the main parafoil acting as "a stationary sky hook to grab onto space," the wind tram had no trouble flying up the string on its own power, notes Balsley. "It was a thrill to watch it run up the tether and disappear through the clouds."

...

This spring, the kite team is headed for the Azores, a tiny group of islands in the North Atlantic about 1,200 miles west of Portugal. While that work will be a continuation of the NARE experiments, the team may be packing a heftier spool of the 900-pound-test Kevlar line in anticipation of flying higher than ever before.

 

In fact, the world kite record -- set by a German team that strung together eight box kites to reach a height of six miles in 1919 -- could well fall. "We could have challenged the record at Christmas Island," says Balsley. "We just ran out of string."

 

Computer modeling by Jensen indicates that, in the right place and time, such parafoils could fly up to 11 miles high -- putting them into the lower margin of Earth's stratosphere and home of the protective ozone shield, says Birks. Above that altitude, diminishing winds and increasing atmospheric drag and tether weight preclude extended kiting.

...

Weary of waiting for a new steeple to be erected atop Philadelphia's Christ Church -- where he had originally planned to conduct his electricity tests -- Franklin abruptly changed his mind and sent a kite floating into the stormy heavens. "It looks like he just ran out of patience," says Balsley.

 

More than two centuries later, Balsley and Birks are dreaming of a kite renaissance that even the visionary Franklin might have found astonishing. They can see it now: An armada of soaring platforms deployed around the globe to tackle crucial global change questions from rising greenhouse gases and industrial pollution to our dwindling ozone shield.

 

There's some pictures of the "tram" at this link. >> Flying High We used to call them "messengers". :shrug:

Edited July 7, 2013 by Turtle

[Turtle]

Flying the new delta_conyne.

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Ku6OxeZKU&feature=youtu.be