Quick quiery?

[Damo2600]

Finally thank you Buffy,

 

This point is really fascinating and I think a lot of people who are not aware of this would find it fascinating aswell.

 

There are actually 3 aspects I have found so far to time dilation.

 

Illusion A : If I am moving and you are stationary and I percieve your time to be 1% slower, in actual fact your time is going 1% faster.

 

Illusion B : If I am moving in a plane around a glass earth and you are stationary at the start point (Basically I can see you for the whole journey) and I accelerate at an even pace around the globe and at half way I decelerate at a symetrical pace to which I accelerated, then I percieve your time to slow down and then speed up at an equal rate to when I land the plane. However this is not a fact due to illusion C.

 

Illusion C : Although my perception of the journey around the globe is that all the time has been accounted for, we find that this is not a fact because there is an over all time dilation over the entire journey. Although my watch states that I have been travelling for 12 hours, it is not true, according to the stationary observer I have in fact been travelling for less (edit sorry I think that's more than) than 12 hours. Illusion C is what we would call 'actual' time dilation however.

 

Thank you again Buffy. Truely interesting stuff. The curious mind in me maintains an avid wariness of accepting things absolutely. However that's cool. (I'm not being sarcastic this time by the way)

 

Are there any other illusions of time dilation that you are aware of?

 

Damien :Alien:

[Tormod]

Either you are not trying to understand the situation properly or you do not know the answer.

 

From reading this thread I think it is fair to say that you are in no position to make such a claim about Buffy.

 

You keep saying time dilation is an illusion. Well, fine. Believe it! Or - read some books on the topic and learn instead.

 

Deceleration does in fact not cancel out time dilation that has already occured. That would mean you would be travelling back in time (or at least make time stand still). You cannot make time go slower.

 

It is easier to understand it like this: An acellerating spaceship will appear to go faster and faster as long as it acellerates. When it coasts at a high speed, the time dilation remains at the same level. This means that the amount of time passing inside the spaceship will be much less that the time passing here on Earth.

 

When the spaceship eventually turns and returns to Earth, the amount of time dilation will grow smaller and smaller as it breaks. But time will still pass, and when the spaceship comes to rest the ship and any outside observers are in the same timeframe again.

 

Yet (and this is the important point) when the traveller inside the ship steps out on Earth, he will have experienced X years since he left. To someone who has stayed back on Earth, his trip will have taken Y years.

 

Depending on how fast the space ship has travelled (for example, how many percent of the speed of light) the less time will have passed for the traveller, and the more time for the outside observer.

 

So no, decelleration does not cancel out time dilation that has already happened, it only changes the relative passage of time.

[Damo2600]

Hey Tormod you missed the part where I cited 'actual' time dilation. I stated that myself and that I agreed with Buffy. However within my own mind I must sit on the fence until it's proven to me which is my own perogative.

 

Damien

[Tormod]

Okay, Damien, let me then comment upon your points here:

 

Illusion A : If I am moving and you are stationary and I percieve your time to be 1% slower, in actual fact your time is going 1% faster.

 

The motion of a body in one frame does not have an impact on the passing of time for a body in another. This is simple to imagine - because if it was the other way around, then every moving object in the universe would impact the passing of time for every other object....

 

So the *actual fact* is that the time in the frame of motion you are in ticks faster than Buffy's frame.

 

Illusion B : If I am moving in a plane around a glass earth and you are stationary at the start point (Basically I can see you for the whole journey) and I accelerate at an even pace around the globe and at half way I decelerate at a symetrical pace to which I accelerated, then I percieve your time to slow down and then speed up at an equal rate to when I land the plane. However this is not a fact due to illusion C.

 

For the sake of clarity you would need to move extremely fast to notice even a very tiny change in time.

 

Illusion C : Although my perception of the journey around the globe is that all the time has been accounted for, we find that this is not a fact because there is an over all time dilation over the entire journey. Although my watch states that I have been travelling for 12 hours, it is not true

 

Your clock is true.

 

.., according to the stationary observer I have in fact been travelling for less (edit sorry I think that's more than) than 12 hours. Illusion C is what we would call 'actual' time dilation however.

 

It is exactly 12 hours for you, which is correct. It is more for Buffy, which is also correct.

 

*Both* clocks are correct. There is no illusion. Time dilation means that time actually ticks differently for objects in different frames of motion.

[Damo2600]

Thanks Tormod,

 

I have revised my statement:

 

There are actually 3 aspects I have found so far to time dilation.

 

Actual Time Dilation A : If I am stationary and you are moving and I percieve your time to be 1% slower, That is true.

 

Illusion A : If I am moving and you are stationary and I percieve your time to be 1% slower, in actual fact your time is going 1% faster.

 

 

Actual Time Dilation B : If you are moving in a plane around a glass earth and I am stationary at the start point (Basically I can see you for the whole journey) and you accelerate for 10 minutes, then move at a constant pace around the globe and during the last 10 minutes you decelerate at a symetrical pace to which you accelerated, then I percieve your time to slow down, remain at a constant slower time speed and then speed up at an equal rate.

 

Illusion B : If I am moving in a plane around a glass earth and you are stationary at the start point (Basically I can see you for the whole journey) and I accelerate for 10 minutes, then move at a constant pace around the globe and during the last 10 minutes I decelerate at a symetrical pace to which you accelerated, then I percieve your time to slow down, remain at a constant slower time speed and then speed up at an equal rate. (The reverse is actually true)

 

 

Actual Time Dilation C : If you are moving in a plane around a glass earth and I am stationary at the start point (Basically I can see you for the whole journey) and you accelerate at an even pace around the globe and at half way you decelerate at a symetrical pace to which you accelerated, then I percieve your time to slow down and then speed up at an equal rate.

 

Illusion C : If I am moving in a plane around a glass earth and you are stationary at the start point (Basically I can see you for the whole journey) and I accelerate at an even pace around the globe and at half way I decelerate at a symetrical pace to which I accelerated, then I percieve your time to slow down and then speed up at an equal rate (The reverse is actually true). When you land the plane, however, your clock does not match my clock. See Actual Time Dilation C

 

 

Actual Time Dilation C : Although my perception of the journey around the globe is that all the time has been accounted for, we find that because there is an over all time dilation over the entire journey: Although my watch states that I have been travelling for 12 hours, according to the stationary observer, I have been travelling for more than 12 hours.

 

Is this better? I think this is what I am being told.

 

Damien

 

(edit: I'm sorry but this doesn't come under the category of Quick Quiery? Does it Tormod LOL)