Universe From Nothing

[7DSUSYstrings]

PS Is there an alternative to the ancient wiew that the "totality" is reducible to zero? That is: there should be an "antiuniverse" negating everything about our universe! (How about: 1/0 ... ?)

 

 

Your parenthetic question likely contains your answer. In this universe zero and infinity are opposites. In an anti-universe all numbers would be infinite. Division by zero, where the quotient in this universe would be infinity, in an anti-universe it would approach the absolute value of the number, similary, division by infinity would produce the number. Multiplication would be division, red would be green and so on.

 

Occam's Razor, in an anti-universe, would take the path of most resistance, but resistance would be conductance. Quite a paradox, eh?

 

Although I asked the "anti-verse" question in a thread I started about this type of proposition, IMO, it doesn't work. A potential universe may, through vacuum fluctuation, just might.

[christanson]

After reading the responses to this post, I feel I have entered my post in the wrong forum (theology), I therefore submit my post here for consideration.

 

ELIJAH’S MESSAGE

 

The Book of Mormon teaches the New World’s native population descended from an immigrant Jewish tribe. So Mayan astronomers, who see a new Zodiac arriving 21 December 2012, (Sir Isaac Newton sees 2060) must be a remnant of that tribe. A tribe that brought with it knowledge of the ancient condensed model—the one used by biblical prophets to forecast worldly events. So, out of curiosity, let’s update the old condensed model with today’s knowledge of the physical characteristics of the primary constituents in molecular clouds to see where it leads.

We know planetary bodies condense in molecular clouds containing hydrogen, helium and ice-coated dust. But for hydrogen to condense, it must radiate heat to the background temperature of space (3 Kelvin). Under normal conditions, hydrogen condenses to a liquid at 20 Kelvin; but if cooled to 9 Kelvin (molecular cloud temperature) it goes directly to a solid, whose molecules are free to rotate—giving it a fluid quality. Solidification gives up heat that radiates to the surface of the molecular cloud and on to the vast heat sink of space. Once lost that heat cannot be regained, so hydrogen stays in its quasi-solid form. A solidifying frenzy builds a gigantic ball of ice-coated dust particles incased in quasi-solid hydrogen that is permeated with entrapped helium. Solid hydrogen is a refrigerant; so, through warming periods and Ice Ages a condensed planet pumps its hydrogen core down to a temperature just above absolute zero—to its truly solid, metallic state.

Of further interest, at 2.17 Kelvin entrapped helium becomes a superfluid that conducts heat perfectly—heat in is equal to heat out. Also, its constant superfluid movement orchestrates the growth of a pure hydrogen crystal deep in the condensing body. That pure hydrogen crystal constitutes a natural nuclear reactor. So to continue, we must look to the physics of nuclear reactions. Under ever increasing pressure induced by the cohesive acceleration of horizontal gravity, an atom in an innermost hydrogen-hydrogen molecule captures its electron to become a neutron. The original molecule then becomes a deuterium atom. Two deuterium atoms join to form a molecule, whose fusion expels a fair amount of heat, which is whisked away by superfluid helium to the planet’s surface, But the major heat producer (5 times greater than deuterium-deuterium fusion) is the fusion of a deuterium-tritium molecule—a fusion that powers stars. Unfortunately, when this type of fusion takes place in a small planetary body, its cold fusion furnace goes thermonuclear blowing that planet apart—leaving naught behind but a telltale dust ring. Gamma-ray bursts from such explosions occur daily from wholly random directions in the sky.

An explosion of a planet in our galaxy is of no real consequence to life on Earth; but, if in our solar system its gamma-rays will kill bacteria needed for life—triggering mass extinctions. In their observation of Quetzalcoatl, their feathered serpent (known to us as Venus, who has a surface temperature greater than that of a self-cleaning oven—undoubtedly caused by fusion), Mayan astronomers foresee his demise. Jesus describes Venus’ explosion in Mathew, Chapter 24 as, “29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken: 30 then will appear the sign of the son of man in heaven,….”. When Venus explodes, gamma rays will hit half the Earth in a random pattern, because some rays will be blocked by debris. We will have to hurry to mountain caves to escape incoming debris. The debris cloud will block the sun’s light and, in turn, the moon will be dark. When sunlight passes through the expanding hydrogen cloud a lighted cross will be seen on its surface. Further, when chunks of debris come close to Earth their reflected light will look like the stars of heaven are falling. Then, after 1000 years of peace—when that expanding cloud drifts close enough, our sun will flare into a nova to gather in electrons to feed its cold-fusion furnace—Isaiah 30:26, “Moreover the light of the moon will be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun will be sevenfold as the light of seven days ….”, thus will be our end.

Now when calculated trigonometrically, horizontal acceleration equals that of vertical gravity in Earth’s surface—its resultant cohesive tension impedes our progress when we wade through water. Simply by considering the 360 degree cohesive acceleration of horizontal gravity in the geodesists’ flattening equation, the above condensed model becomes a viable alternative to the currently taught hot-core model.

[7DSUSYstrings]

Solid hydrogen is a refrigerant;

 

It might be better to say "would" be or "might" be.

 

I don't like to poo poo on anyone's work, but there are simply too many contradictions in all that, Elijah. You might want to read it over and edit, edit, edit... :)

[sigurdV]

Well Eliah...

 

What fusion could there be on Venus? It has lost all its hydrogen.

 

Its disappointing to see science misused to support lost religious causes.

 

Instead of writing essays, perhaps you should try to get into a communication process

by using shorter precise statements invoking interest in eventual readers.

 

Anyway I dont believe Venus is in any danger of exploding :)

Edited April 17, 2012 by sigurdV

[christanson]

I appreciate all your posts to this subject, but unfortunately you are making statements about hydrogen that are not true a far as laboratory demonstrated physical characteristics of hydrogen, helium and ice are concerned. My post is based on these demonstrated characteristics. I tie it to the Mayan calender to weave a story. Is that a sin? The ancients couched their scientific knowledge in just such a manner.

Edited April 17, 2012 by elijah

[7DSUSYstrings]

I appreciate all your posts to this subject, but unfortunately you are making statements about hydrogen that are not true a far as laboratory demonstrated physical characteristics of hydrogen, helium and ice are concerned. My post is based on these demonstrated characteristics. I tie it to the Mayan calender to weave a story. Is that a sin? The ancients couched their scientific knowledge in just such a manner.

 

 

Elijah,

You are not helping the theist cause here at all. I have a very wide spectrum imagination, but nonetheless I have to keep it constrained to what is proven, so law, what coincides with classic physics, notwithstanding those who sidestep it, coincides with particle physics and speculate, as does any other scientist, about what is beyond our current evidence. It's one thing to see intelligent design emerge from the evidence, but it's only an illusion to pull a rabbit out of a hat. All you've managed to pull out of your hat is a flea collar...

[sigurdV]

Im no inquisitor but administrators might decide youre off topic.

 

Perhaps you should start a thread of your own...

 

Are you saying theres hydrogen on Venus?

[7DSUSYstrings]

Why is BB wrong? Who are the people unwilling to abandon the BB?

what are its faults(off course it can't explain before BB itself) and unproven ideas?

 

It will be really interesting to know if you have your/other's own theories which make sense. But it should agree with the observed facts.

 

 

I don't subscribe to the BB. Talk about it in most of these forums? We may as well start the thread in the trash can...

[christanson]

SigurdV

In the condensed model of planetary body formation all bodies have cores of solid hydrogen surrounded by ice-coated dust, Ice VII, Ice VIII and Ice X. Their cores are permeated with helium. Helium-3 gives them magnetic fields. larger bodies go on to become stars, which are powered by the cold-fusion of hydrogen. Smaller bodies try to become stars, but their cold-fusion furnace, such as the one working on Venus, goes thermonuclear and blows up.

[Moontanman]

SigurdV

In the condensed model of planetary body formation all bodies have cores of solid hydrogen surrounded by ice-coated dust, Ice VII, Ice VIII and Ice X. Their cores are permeated with helium. Helium-3 gives them magnetic fields. larger bodies go on to become stars, which are powered by the cold-fusion of hydrogen. Smaller bodies try to become stars, but their cold-fusion furnace, such as the one working on Venus, goes thermonuclear and blows up.

 

 

Ok elijah, time for evidence, you cannot make such an outlandish claim and not back it up, your assertions do mot mean it's true and assertions are not evidence. The things you are claiming fly in the face of current scientific theory. Lets see some evidence or stop posting these things.

 

Please read the rules

 

If you want to speculate please use the speculation forum.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Moontanman

[Moontanman]

After reading the responses to this post, I feel I have entered my post in the wrong forum (theology), I therefore submit my post here for consideration.

 

On the contrary your post at best belongs in the religious forum but most probably in the speculation forum.

 

ELIJAH’S MESSAGE

 

The Book of Mormon teaches the New World’s native population descended from an immigrant Jewish tribe.

 

And this is demonstrably not true but this is not the religious forum so please confine your religious posts to that forum.

 

So Mayan astronomers, who see a new Zodiac arriving 21 December 2012, (Sir Isaac Newton sees 2060) must be a remnant of that tribe. A tribe that brought with it knowledge of the ancient condensed model—the one used by biblical prophets to forecast worldly events.

 

Again, this is not the religious forum and this is demonstrably not true.

 

So, out of curiosity, let’s update the old condensed model with today’s knowledge of the physical characteristics of the primary constituents in molecular clouds to see where it leads.

We know planetary bodies condense in molecular clouds containing hydrogen, helium and ice-coated dust.

 

Some do some don't, depends on how far from the central star they condense.

 

But for hydrogen to condense, it must radiate heat to the background temperature of space (3 Kelvin). Under normal conditions, hydrogen condenses to a liquid at 20 Kelvin; but if cooled to 9 Kelvin (molecular cloud temperature) it goes directly to a solid, whose molecules are free to rotate—giving it a fluid quality. Solidification gives up heat that radiates to the surface of the molecular cloud and on to the vast heat sink of space.

 

please show some proof of this assertion.

 

Once lost that heat cannot be regained, so hydrogen stays in its quasi-solid form. A solidifying frenzy builds a gigantic ball of ice-coated dust particles incased in quasi-solid hydrogen that is permeated with entrapped helium. Solid hydrogen is a refrigerant; so, through warming periods and Ice Ages a condensed planet pumps its hydrogen core down to a temperature just above absolute zero—to its truly solid, metallic state.

 

Again this is not part of current science and has to be backed up by evidence.

 

Of further interest, at 2.17 Kelvin entrapped helium becomes a superfluid that conducts heat perfectly—heat in is equal to heat out. Also, its constant superfluid movement orchestrates the growth of a pure hydrogen crystal deep in the condensing body. That pure hydrogen crystal constitutes a natural nuclear reactor.

 

Again, total speculation, please back this up with evidence.

 

 

So to continue, we must look to the physics of nuclear reactions. Under ever increasing pressure induced by the cohesive acceleration of horizontal gravity, an atom in an innermost hydrogen-hydrogen molecule captures its electron to become a neutron. The original molecule then becomes a deuterium atom. Two deuterium atoms join to form a molecule, whose fusion expels a fair amount of heat, which is whisked away by superfluid helium to the planet’s surface, But the major heat producer (5 times greater than deuterium-deuterium fusion) is the fusion of a deuterium-tritium molecule—a fusion that powers stars. Unfortunately, when this type of fusion takes place in a small planetary body, its cold fusion furnace goes thermonuclear blowing that planet apart—leaving naught behind but a telltale dust ring. Gamma-ray bursts from such explosions occur daily from wholly random directions in the sky.

 

Again, this is not part of what is currently accepted and is total speculation, give some evidence to back this up.

 

An explosion of a planet in our galaxy is of no real consequence to life on Earth; but, if in our solar system its gamma-rays will kill bacteria needed for life—triggering mass extinctions. In their observation of Quetzalcoatl, their feathered serpent (known to us as Venus, who has a surface temperature greater than that of a self-cleaning oven—undoubtedly caused by fusion), Mayan astronomers foresee his demise. Jesus describes Venus’ explosion in Mathew, Chapter 24 as, “29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken: 30 then will appear the sign of the son of man in heaven,….”. When Venus explodes, gamma rays will hit half the Earth in a random pattern, because some rays will be blocked by debris. We will have to hurry to mountain caves to escape incoming debris. The debris cloud will block the sun’s light and, in turn, the moon will be dark. When sunlight passes through the expanding hydrogen cloud a lighted cross will be seen on its surface. Further, when chunks of debris come close to Earth their reflected light will look like the stars of heaven are falling. Then, after 1000 years of peace—when that expanding cloud drifts close enough, our sun will flare into a nova to gather in electrons to feed its cold-fusion furnace—Isaiah 30:26, “Moreover the light of the moon will be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun will be sevenfold as the light of seven days ….”, thus will be our end.

 

This is not the religious forum, please confine your religious posts to the forum for that purpose.

 

Now when calculated trigonometrically, horizontal acceleration equals that of vertical gravity in Earth’s surface—its resultant cohesive tension impedes our progress when we wade through water. Simply by considering the 360 degree cohesive acceleration of horizontal gravity in the geodesists’ flattening equation, the above condensed model becomes a viable alternative to the currently taught hot-core model.

 

 

This is total speculation and has no place in this thread. Please back this up with evidence and put it in it's proper place.

[christanson]

Moontanman:

It is all based on scientifically gathered data available in the following references

 

1. Gutenberg, B., 1959. "Physics of the Earth's Interior," Seismological Laboratory, California Institute of Technology, International Geophysics Series, Academic Press Inc., London - NY, Page 141.

2. Smith, D., Editor in Chief, 1979-1981. "The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Earth Sciences," The Open University, Crown, New York, Page 53.

3. Silvera, I., April 1980. "The solid molecular hydrogens in the condensed phase: Fundamentals and static properties," Reviews of Modern Physics, Vol. 52, No. 2, Part I. American Physical Society, Pages 392-495.

4. Weast, R., Ed., 1982-1983. "CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics," 63rd Ed., CRC press, Boca Raton, Florida, Page B-19, B-20.

5. Mermin, N. & D. Lee, December 1976. "Superfluid Helium 3." Sci Am, New York, Pages 56-71.

6. Lounasmaa, O. and G. Pickett, June 1990. "The He Superfluids," Sci Am, New York, Pages 104-111.

7. Peterson, J., August 6, 1983. "Atomic evaporation of liquid helium," Science News, Vol. 124, Washington, Page 85.

8. Jayaraman, A., January 1983. "Diamond Anvil Cell and High-Pressure Physical Investigation," Review of Modern Physics, Vol. 55, No. 1. American Physical Society, Pages 65-108.

9. Carlisle, N., Undated Reprint. "Wizard of the Big Squeeze." Cornet, New York.

10. Considine, D., Ed., 1989. "Norstrand's Scientific Encyclopedia," 7th Ed. New York, Page 1519.

Reference 3 is very difficult it is full of triple intergrals.

[Moontanman]

Moontanman:

It is all based on scientifically gathered data available in the following references

 

1. Gutenberg, B., 1959. "Physics of the Earth's Interior," Seismological Laboratory, California Institute of Technology, International Geophysics Series, Academic Press Inc., London - NY, Page 141.

2. Smith, D., Editor in Chief, 1979-1981. "The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Earth Sciences," The Open University, Crown, New York, Page 53.

3. Silvera, I., April 1980. "The solid molecular hydrogens in the condensed phase: Fundamentals and static properties," Reviews of Modern Physics, Vol. 52, No. 2, Part I. American Physical Society, Pages 392-495.

4. Weast, R., Ed., 1982-1983. "CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics," 63rd Ed., CRC press, Boca Raton, Florida, Page B-19, B-20.

5. Mermin, N. & D. Lee, December 1976. "Superfluid Helium 3." Sci Am, New York, Pages 56-71.

6. Lounasmaa, O. and G. Pickett, June 1990. "The He Superfluids," Sci Am, New York, Pages 104-111.

7. Peterson, J., August 6, 1983. "Atomic evaporation of liquid helium," Science News, Vol. 124, Washington, Page 85.

8. Jayaraman, A., January 1983. "Diamond Anvil Cell and High-Pressure Physical Investigation," Review of Modern Physics, Vol. 55, No. 1. American Physical Society, Pages 65-108.

9. Carlisle, N., Undated Reprint. "Wizard of the Big Squeeze." Cornet, New York.

10. Considine, D., Ed., 1989. "Norstrand's Scientific Encyclopedia," 7th Ed. New York, Page 1519.

Reference 3 is very difficult it is full of triple intergrals.

 

 

So you expect me to go to the public library and look up book and magazine references, some more than 50 years out of date to confirm your outrageous claims? You need to provide evidence that people can confirm, online. Your claims are totally outside what modern science currently holds. That doesn't necessarily mean you are wrong but you need to provide evidence that can be confirmed by anyone here. Your post is also completely off topic.

 

This is not the religious forum, You also need to show how that Native Americans can be shown to be the lost tribe of Israel which is what you claimed.

 

The assertion that planets can have a hydrogen core needs to be addressed as well. This is Hypography read the rules please...

 

I suggest you start another thread in speculations about this topic, it does not belong here...

 

Hypography?

 

Hypography [n.]: A combination of "hyperlink" and "bibliography" - ie, a list of links to electronic documents. Comparable to discography and bibliography, but not cartography.

When we launched in May 2000, we wanted to create a site to share science-related content of all kinds on the web. As time passed, our site turned into a pure science forum with lots of cool people.

So we kept the name Hypography and the cool science forum community - and aim to be a friendly place for discussion of science topics of all kinds.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Moontanman

[christanson]

I agree that my post does not belong here, feel free to delete all trace of it. However, I do intend to make a new post to this forum that I feel you will have the answer for.

[maddog]

SigurdV

In the condensed model of planetary body formation all bodies have cores of solid hydrogen surrounded by ice-coated dust, Ice VII, Ice VIII and Ice X. Their cores are permeated with helium. Helium-3 gives them magnetic fields. larger bodies go on to become stars, which are powered by the cold-fusion of hydrogen. Smaller bodies try to become stars, but their cold-fusion furnace, such as the one working on Venus, goes thermonuclear and blows up.

Elijah,

 

I think I need some references for these items you throw around. Ice VII, Ice VIII, Ice X ???. Please give me some credible citation where these terms are discussed, so I can get to the same page with you. If you start to quote Sitchin... I'm going to "throw the book at you..." :angry:

 

At this moment any notion of Cold Fusion is currently unreliable if it even exists. No experiment has been repeatedly verifiable. Now why is Venus the only such body in particular? There is definitely Hydrogen there - bc there is a known large amount HCl, H2SO2 in the upper atmosphere (which is approx 90 atm).

 

I have read from the book of Mormon, as I like to read from all the religions. I do not care to hear about any such info, in a thread where the

origin of the universe (esp. "Universe from nothing"). This is not a religious thread. You had the original thought that you had the wrong forum before. In fact you have the opposite condition. You might have the wrong forum location now if you continue to discuss this thread topic in religious tone (or agenda).

 

So as Moontanman already said... [rephrased] "better pony-up bub on your references." <_<

 

maddog

[enil8]

Have they decreased the speed ?

 

 

 

Have they decreased the speed as they calculate collapsing the universe back to its smallest point ?

Ill bet we run out of momentum before we run out of space . At least a conceivable amount of space to expand from.

Anyway I'm not so good at math but maybe someone qualified will help me out here.

 

enil8

Edited April 24, 2012 by enil8

[maddog]

Have they decreased the speed ?

Have they decreased the speed as they calculate collapsing the universe back to its smallest point ?

Ill bet we run out of momentum before we run out of space . At least a conceivable amount of space to expand from.

Anyway I'm not so good at math but maybe someone qualified will help me out here.

Of I am not sure of the latest research. I like your idea on depleted momentum as you approach point 0 time.

 

Last I know the time sequencing in reverse has gotten just to the other side of quark plasma - say ~10E -12 sec.

 

Some recent speculation (I think coming from Loop Quantum Gravity [LQG]) has that "the beginning" may be so.

There may be existence before the BB Event. There is an article in a recent SciAm magazine, you can probably

find online.

 

maddog