2012 Conspiracy theories

[Turtle]

why blackouts?

 

My question too after reading Craig's wiki, inasmuch as we generate very little electricity by burning oil. :D

 

I'm all for things happening in cycles, but generally only as a generalization. :hyper: That is to say I think civilization will crash one way or another as others have, but the when & how of it is tantamount to a complex system solution not at hand. Learn to build a cook fire. ........

[Queso]

electricity is quite the tranquilizer . . eh?

turn it off and what do you have?

a bunch of scared monkeys!

[Queso]

i also think we're smarter than what that theory suggests. i really do. but....then again....I think about places like nashville....aye

[CraigD]

why blackouts?

According to Olduvai theory, because we beginning running chronically short of oil, coal, and natural gas, and have not managed to replace these sources of energy with others.

 

It’s a pessimistic theory, but not a baseless one. For all of our civilization’s engineering ability and talk of alternative energy, we’ve not really done much in the last 75 years, power-wise, other than burn more of the same fuels we’ve know how to obtain and burn for over a century. Though I don’t believe it, it’s possible that, as a civilization, we fundamentally can’t make the transition.

 

Olduvai (the name, by the way, was adopted as a reference to the Olduvai valley, where prehistoric humans appear to have once thrived, then catastrophically died off when they depleted the local plant and wildlife) is essentially a sociological “what if?” hypothesis suggesting that we can’t. It’s not physics or biology – it doesn’t assert that any laws of nature make it impossible for humankind to continue to increase our population, lifespans, and artificial power consumption. It’s empirical, noting that the hard number of total artificial power generation divided by the human population, peaked somewhere between 1973 and 1979, depending on what source of data and analysis is used, and has been declining rapidly since then. It predicts that, around 2030, we’ll reach the same value for this number as in 1930.

 

The theory doesn’t insist that we can’t reverse this trend – a major purpose of its authors is to encourage the awareness and work necessary to do just that – only that, if we don’t, our population will necessarily decline, and many lifestyles and cultures radically change. One of many disturbing characteristics of such a scenarios is that this population reduction will be mostly the result of generations of widespread starvation and disease, not only in regions where this has been commonplace in past centuries (eg: Bangladesh) but places it has not (eg: Australia, the UK, the US).

 

Another disturbing assertion of the theory is that, once such an “Olduvai cliff” is past, returning to previous power/population ratios and other states of technological achievement will be much more difficult, as the resources that made it “easy” the first time will be much more scarce. If we miss this chance to “grab the ring”, so to speak, it may be centuries, if ever, before human beings again have the experience of things we take for granted now, such as spaceflight. Duncan uses many illustrative metaphors – one of them is something like “Apollo 11 may be our culture’s Great Pyramid”.

 

Whether its inferences and predictions are accurate, or the sociological hypothesis it presents true, an important lesson of Olduvai theory is that we should avoid making the common, comfortable assumption that progress, as measured by power/population, is inevitable, and will, with perhaps the occasional short-term setback, continue to occur if humanity continues to “behave” about the same way it has, and the implicit belief that the laws of nature dictate that there must always be a “next easy thing” available to support such progress. This belief, though supported by the past history of technology, assumes much. At some point, the “next easy thing” is certain to be a “hard thing”. If humankind can’t succeed at this hard thing, Olduvai theory will be proven true. The hard numbers provided by the theory conclude that this success must occur in the next 20 years, the sooner the better.

[CraigD]

My question too after reading Craig's wiki, inasmuch as we generate very little electricity by burning oil.

True, but Olduvai theory analysis includes all fossil fuels – coal, natural gas, and oil, which, in the US, account for 71.4% of electric power generation, followed by 19.3% nuclear. Only about 9.4% of US electric power is from “renewable” sources. (Source: Electricity generation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

I'm all for things happening in cycles, but generally only as a generalization. :( That is to say I think civilization will crash one way or another as others have, but the when & how of it is tantamount to a complex system solution not at hand.

These are essentially two of the top beliefs that Olduvai theory challenges the reader to question:

• Civilization is cyclic. Great civilizations rise, and fall, only to be followed by the rise of the next.
  • Olduvai theory says: not so. Past civilizations used only a small fraction of the world’s non-renewable resources. Present day civilization is critically different than those of thousands of years ago.

  [*]The when and how of the “crash” is uncertain and/or unpredictable

  • Olduvai theory says: not so. Though the precise details – people, places, dates, etc. – are uncertain, the trend is consistent, with 37% peak power/person occurring in about 2030

Learn to build a cook fire. ........:hihi:

People tell me I’m good at the fire, much less at the cooking part. :note2:

 

Seriously, the hard part in a “what if, suddenly, we had no more gas or electric” scenario is not building a fire, but finding something to burn in it. The population density where I live is about 680/km^2. The closest I’ve experienced to a wood-burning existence with such a population density is a large (about 30,000) gathering in a Northeastern national park. In less than a week, it cleared about 25 km^2 of densely wooded forest of deadfall. Another week, and we would have had to start cutting down trees (rather frowned upon by the park rangers). I don’t recall any calculations, but am pretty sure the trees wouldn’t last more than a few years. This wouldn’t be very important, though, as the local food would last even less long.

 

Subsistence level existence can support about 30 people/km^2. For me, this means, one way or another, 95% of my neighbors must go. That’s a pretty dramatic dieoff – or, less pessimistically, a diaspora. The population density of the US is about 31 people/km^2, on the bare edge of subsistence survivability – on paper.

i also think we're smarter than what that theory suggests.

So do I – but must admit that my opinion is base more on innate optimism than solid data and analysis.

 

Almost any analysis leads to some similar conclusions. In the next decade, or two at the most, we must dramatically decrease the share of fossil fuel used for power, heat, transportation, and fertilizer. The only obvious, available-right-now alternative is nuclear fission. As someone who spent much of my teenage years protesting – and effectively blocking – the construction of nuclear power plants in the NorthEast US, this conclusion is disturbing, but, IMHO, undeniable. Old hippies typically aren’t comfortable finding themselves agreeing with the likes of Dick Cheney on significant energy policy, but the fact is, I, at least, find myself so.

[paigetheoracle]

I don't know. Terrence is dead, now.

You described it well.

 

Think about evolution. It took billions of years for people to evolve, and then that time was cut in half, and in half again, and in half again, and it the interval of evolutionary periods just get shorter (Fibonacci) and shorter (anthropological, cultural, industrial, etc) up until around 2012 when the orgasm of novelty occurs and the cooling begins.

 

This pattern in time/space/evolution is evident to anyone who looks at the patterns.

 

How it will physically affect us and our planet can only be speculated at this point in time.

 

Glad you liked it.

 

Why Blackouts? Funny you should ask that because another conspiracy theory says that is what we're heading for but it doesn't specify why (Remote viewers/ supposed government sources). So maybe it all ties in?

[Queso]

Glad you liked it.

 

Why Blackouts? Funny you should ask that because another conspiracy theory says that is what we're heading for but it doesn't specify why (Remote viewers/ supposed government sources). So maybe it all ties in?

 

Reminds me of a lot of third world situations where they only have power at certain times.

Terrence McKenna also said that when you go to the third world it appears that the "Apocalypse" has already happened.

:)

[Turtle]

Something Better - Chilliwack

 

People run like tired lemmings they don't see the sun

Shadow pictures drive them on and keep them on the run

Knights in blazing armour stand upon a nearby hill

Shafts of gleaming light held high and no one sees them still

[LaurieAG]

why blackouts?

 

Hi Orby,

 

There are other internal reasons for the bigest US blackouts a couple of years ago. At the time I was working in network security and support so I regularly scanned the latest available reports etc for attack ports etc.

 

Dshield.org DShield; Cooperative Network Security Community - Internet Security - dshield is a global body that consolidates firewall reports from many corporations/users around the world and presents the info for public and professional alike.

 

I usually have a look at the start and end of a shift (and then even when I shut down my home PC at night, in case anything hapenned). As we were running a FTP site from a major ISP, I would see if the ISP was on the top 10 offenders list (my ISP and their major competitor were on it more often than not back then). DShield; Cooperative Network Security Community - Internet Security - dshield (Top 10 Source IPs, the older report actually displayed the offending IP's registered name)

 

When the US power blackout started to happen I noticed (in Australia) that there was a Bell Canada/California junction that was on the top 10 list. After 15 hours it was still on the list and the blackout was still causing problems.

 

I looked at Wired magazine and read an article that said that viruses had nothing to do with the blackout. I clicked on the feedback button and referred the author of the article to the Dshield site.

 

Gee wasn't I surprised when two days later I saw the bloke on Fox cable as an expert commenting about the implications of computer viruses for SCADA (Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition) systems and power networks.

[Thunderbird]

This subject of the Mayan calendar and cycles of the universe is of some interest to me. If I may put forth a possible scenario.

 

Imagine the galaxy as a very precise clock. This massive clock containing a subset of smaller clocks embedded within an internal hierarchal structure, the embedded clocks being the solar systems.

 

The original master clock for these systems being the central black hole.

 

Now imagine this central master clock arranging [as a whirlpool arranges water over a drain] a highly ordered set of smaller black holes. Gravity around the event horizon would be particularly strong and demanding in this region and would stretch circling gravitation points [incoming black holes] into precisely spaced nodes.

These nodes reaching the event horizon in a very precise self regulating cycle.

This event of merging black holes causing the entire galaxy to resonate like a gong, not in sound but gravity waves.

Now imagine the cyclical resonating event reordering the galactic system on the quantum level.

 

Imagine this as a yet unknown evolutionary seasonal cycle of life. This also could explain punctuated equilibrium in evolution.

 

The central heart beat of the galaxy pulses like a clock that punctuates the equilibrium of DNA and advances life forward.

 

This gravity wave could possibly allow for a jump to a higher ordered state, [Quantum sampling} for any quantum coherent structure { DNA.} :eek_big:

[CraigD]

Imagine the galaxy as a very precise clock. This massive clock containing a subset of smaller clocks embedded within an internal hierarchal structure, the embedded clocks being the solar systems.

As essentially anything with fairly predictable motion can be used as a clock, rotating planets, moon systems, stellar systems, galaxies, or even clusters of galaxies can be clocks. The Earths rotation and revolution around the Sun, and the Moon’s around the Earth, are, actually, likely the oldest clocks known to man, and remains important ones used by most terrestrial animals.

 

As for precision, however, they’re inferior to the best modern clocks, because their motion is practically impossible to predict with very high precision. Not only are their mechanics complicated, but a precise measurement of their physical state at any given instant is difficult, and they are subject to perturbation by bodies beyond our ability to observe.

The original master clock for these systems being the central black hole.

 

Now imagine this central master clock arranging [as a whirlpool arranges water over a drain] a highly ordered set of smaller black holes. Gravity around the event horizon would be particularly strong and demanding in this region and would stretch circling gravitation points [incoming black holes] into precisely spaced nodes.

These nodes reaching the event horizon in a very precise self regulating cycle.

This event of merging black holes causing the entire galaxy to resonate like a gong, not in sound but gravity waves.

Black hole collisions are fascinating events, whether from highly ordered arrangements of black holes (which seem unlikely, because such an arrangement would almost certainly have to be artificial, and there doesn’t appear to be anything around capable of such a thing – but then again, our knowledge of the galactic center is very limited and low-resolution, so such engineering can’t be ruled out)

Now imagine the cyclical resonating event reordering the galactic system on the quantum level.

 

Imagine this as a yet unknown evolutionary seasonal cycle of life. This also could explain punctuated equilibrium in evolution.

 

The central heart beat of the galaxy pulses like a clock that punctuates the equilibrium of DNA and advances life forward.

This imagining is, I think, beyond scientific plausibility, for a couple of reasons:

 

First, the amplitude of the effects of gravitational waves, like the more familiar gravitational force, follow the distance squared ([math]\frac1{r^2}[/math]) law, so even a very large gravitational wave generating event, such as black hole collisions in the galactic center, will have very small effects on objects thousands of light years away. Even nearby gravity wave effects cannot yet be directly detected, requiring the ability to detect length changes with a precision of on the order of 1 in [math]10^{20}[/math] - although efforts to build detectors of such precision are ongoing.

 

Second, even a very large gravitational wave would result in a non-specific transfer of energy. Any such force capable of altering DNA would be many orders of magnitude greater than required to destroy an organisms tissues. In essence, attempting to alter DNA using gravity waves would be like trying to do so by physically shaking someone.

 

Finally, a point of accuracy

This gravity wave could possibly allow for a jump to a higher ordered state, [Quantum sampling} for any quantum coherent structure { DNA.}

DNA is not coherent. Coherence is only exhibited by particles that don’t interact with their surroundings during a particular test, such as photons, beams of electrons or other very small particles. Large objects can exhibit coherence in a Bose–Einstein condensate state, but such states require cooling to near absolute zero temperature to eliminate interaction among its particles. In vivo DNA would be destroyed by such a low temperature.

[Thunderbird]

Lighten up CraigD and read, I know very well I am far out on the metaphisical limb here, but what you just posted is also . The truth is nether of us know what were talking about when it comes to these sorts of forces. I have read some of your post and you are one of those that does know science and math, But the truth be known others are just repeating what they hear and do not think for themsleves. Walk out on the limb once in a while if your veiw does not improve whats the loss.:eek_big:

 

 

 

The Physics of 2012

 

montalk.net :: (CC) 30 March 07

 

If the 2012 phenomenon is real, it appears to be more complicated than some assume. My research tells me that in no way does it imply the mass ascension of everyone on this planet, because that would go against the freewill of those who instead of being ready for a higher realm are stubbornly content with the lower. Nor will it happen precisely on December 21, 2012 because that date is supposedly based on only two things: when the Mayan calendar ends and when the sun on winter solstice overlaps the galactic center; the first is of questionable dating while the second already occurred in 1998. The Shift may in fact be more the dimensional effect of a broad wave whose central peak resides on or after 2012, whereby the years immediately before and after the peak might be just as significant. My best estimate is that the window of 2012-2032 is of greater importance than the winter solstice of 2012 itself.

 

What does the Shift entail? As best as I can tell, it is an ungluing of our consensual collective reality so that the dissonant sectors of the population can diverge onto separate time streams, and then into separate realms of existence altogether. It is a higher degree expression of the same Realm Dynamics underlying our daily experiences. At the moment we all share the same planet, and separation among people of incompatible learning paths amounts to geographic separation at best, but more usually involves a simple synchronistic barrier between them so that they rarely cross paths in life. But as the polarization increases and the repulsive tension between dissonant population sectors grow, and as conditions on this planet increasingly leave less room for everyone’s freewill to be accommodated in the same space and time, there will be increasing pressure for more extreme means of separation. According to Realm Dynamics, what begins as mere dislike between individuals can grow to parting of ways, a parting of timelines, and finally parting of dimensions. It is cellular mitosis on the hyper dimensional scale.

 

What causes the Shift? Why is it cyclical? Why does it relate to astronomical alignments? It may be that our solar system will be passing through a region of spacetime whose conditions vary greatly from our current region. Or perhaps rather than our going toward it, it is coming toward us. Either way, it is worth hypothesizing what physical mechanism could substantiate the Shift.

 

It’s possible that radiating outwardly from the galactic center are spiral arms of greatly altered gravitational potential. As our solar system moves around the galactic center, it will cyclically enter and exit these spiral arms so that all planets and the Sun experience a simultaneous change in their gravitational potential. Others may have hypothesized similarly, but in this article I will follow this concept through to its logical conclusion and show you why the implications profoundly explain everything we can confidently say concerning the Shift.

 

General Relativity: Reaching the Portal Threshold

 

The galactic center is a super massive black hole, and black holes are exits from our universe. To understand black holes, one must first understand gravity. All masses give off gravitational force fields that cause other masses to fall towards them and vice versa. But underlying this field is a more fundamental field known as the gravitational potential. To make an analogy, if the gravity force field is like the downward slope of a hill, then gravitational potential is the measure of height at any point on that slope. Or if the force field is like wind, the potential is like air pressure. It takes changes in gravitational potential over some distance to produce a gravitational force field, just as it takes changes in height to make a slope that things can roll down, or changes in air pressure to create wind. On earth, each height above the surface (or distance from planetary center) carries a different gravitational potential, which creates a “slope” pointing downward (to the center) causing objects to fall if released.

 

It is evident from Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity that the gravitational potential also sets the rate of time and scale of space. Clocks run slower and vertical rulers are shorter at lower altitudes because the gravitational potential is stronger there. A black hole is so compact and massive that its gravitational potential some distance away is already strong enough to slow time to a stop and shrink a dimension of space to zero. That distance is known as the event horizon, or the Schwarzschild radius. From our perspective, an object entering the event horizon will appear frozen in time, while the object itself is instantly propelled toward eternity and either ejected out of our physical universe or destroyed in the process.

 

Anyone entering a black hole will most likely be smushed to death because the changes in gravitational potential near the event horizon are so steep that the associated forces are too much to bear. But remember that it is the gravitational potential itself, and not the force field, that slows time and shrinks space. Therefore it is possible to have the same spacetime bending effects without any dangerous forces if the gravitational potential, despite being intense, varies very little within a given volume of space. It would be like a region of high air pressure without any wind. So as long as the spatial gradient in the gravitational potential is negligible, the potential itself can vary freely without accompanying forces.

 

Where things get interesting is what happens beyond the event horizon, or to put it another way, beyond the value of gravitational potential necessary to stop time. General Relativity has an equation showing how the gravitational potential determines time dilation:

 

 

 

As you can see, the more negative the gravitational potential, the greater the dilated time. Upon reaching a critical value, the potential causes the dilated time to become infinite, meaning that from our perspective the affected clock would take forever to reach the next second. In other words, that is when its time rate slows to zero. This critical value of potential may be called the portal condition:

 

 

 

The portal condition is found precisely at the event horizon of a black hole, but can exist elsewhere in gradient-free and thus force-free form. If the potential grows even more negative than the portal condition, then not only does the time rate shrink to zero, but it actually becomes imaginary. Unlike real quantities which are multiples of one, imaginary quantities are multiples of the square root of negative one, which in practical terms means “an impossibility in one dimension made possible in another.” What we know as everyday linear time is real time. Imaginary time can vary without a single second of real time ticking by, and so it is the only time that continues to exist after one crosses the portal threshold.

 

Quantum Physics: Beyond the Portal Threshold

 

Crossing the portal threshold is equivalent to breaking the speed of light, but without moving an inch. It ejects one from real spacetime into imaginary spacetime, which is called hyperspace according to physics, timespace according to the Ra Material, and antimatter or etheric universe according to the Cassiopaeans. If linear time (real time) is really a loop, then crossing zero time and entering hyperspace would mean exiting from that loop. From there, other loops would become open to exploration. These would be parallel timelines.

 

After one crosses the portal threshold, how does one navigate, where does one go? This is where Relativity leaves off and quantum physics steps in. When time rate is reduced to zero, there is no longer a difference between cause and effect. Rather these exist as a single state from start to finish, simultaneous and overlapping, like a movie reel just sitting there. These are causal or deterministic sequences, meaning sequences where cause leads to a predictable effect without any surprises on the way. Such surprises are called quantum choice points, places where time branches onto any number of alternate possibilities. These represent nondeterministic events whereby consciousness alone chooses from a multiple set of “movie reels” which one to play next. This choice is represented in quantum mechanics as a particular “quantum phase,” a single angle of alignment or position along the quantum wave function. What is the wave function? Unlike particles, which exist as tangible things in a single universe, a wave function is the collection of this particle’s possible states as existing across all its parallel universes simultaneously. When consciousness observes a wave function, it automatically selects from the wave a single phase to lock onto and turn into an tangible possibility to experience.

 

So after entering hyperspace, it is imaginary time and the fundamental quantum phase (perhaps they are the same thing) that provide the primary measure markers of navigation. After entering hyperspace, consciousness can automatically phase-lock onto the linear timeline of choice and emerge into it by punching back through the portal threshold into real spacetime.

 

The Shift as Macroscopic Quantum Wave Expansion

 

Now, what does this have to do with 2012? Possibly everything. As mentioned, the hypothesis given here is that the galactic center radiates waves or spiral arms of altered gravitational potential. According to the unified field theory, there are a variety of mechanisms to generate such waves. Whatever the mechanism, if the solar system undergoes a gravitational potential change that exceeds the portal condition, our reality would literally become unglued.

 

See, the reason we are currently sharing the same planet on the same timeline is because we are all phase-locked onto the same fundamental quantum phase and thus the same primary reality. Our individual instances of reality are bound together because we are collectively stuck at the bottom of the same gravitational potential well, like marbles piled together at the bottom of a depression in a rubber sheet. Incidentally, the portal threshold is the amount of potential required to overcome the potential well of the entire physical universe. If the marbles were elevated beyond the lip of the depression they could escape, and likewise if we experienced a boost in our gravitational potential, our collective reality would dissolve. And that is exactly what would happen if we passed through an sufficiently altered region of spacetime, or if a gravitational potential wave passed through us. I believe this is the key mechanism behind the Shift.

 

Let’s say that 2012-2032 does involve a cataclysmic alteration of our gravitational potential to the point where everything opens up. Then anything would go, anything is possible, future and past merge into a single moment of eternity, spacetime blows up into infinity, and consciousness is blasted into hyperspace. In the years leading up to this point, reality would simply become more plastic and responsive to our consciousness due to the changed gravitational potential loosening things up, but after that point reality would dissolve entirely. And after being tossed into hyperspace, consciousness would simply phase-lock onto whatever reality befits it. Far from being New Age speculation, this follows directly from a creative application of quantum and relativistic physics.

 

So what the Shift really means in this context is the unlocking of the gravitational chains that bind us to each other, so that a natural sorting or resettling process can occur where individuals can diverge onto new realities that best fit their own spiritual needs, realities that best resonate with their own quantum phase spectrum. The latter part is properly called a “macroscopic quantum wave collapse” — which is a term others have previously used, but here I tell you that this is only half the equation. The other half is meeting the portal threshold in the first place, which is the only way a tangible reality can be “uncollapsed,” and that requires a gravitational potential wave whose peak amplitude is beyond the portal threshold. Put another way, the Shift is a macroscopic quantum wave expansion followed by a macroscopic quantum wave collapse. It is the opening and closing of the door to our reality. The Sampo grinds once more!

 

What happens afterward depends on the individual in question. Those of the least spiritual polarization and awareness may, like birds too young to fly being tossed into the air, fall immediately back into a limited linear timeline without remembering anything different. Our memories are part of the linear timeline and change along with any alterations to that timeline. Others may have gained sufficient personal energy and spiritual polarization to no longer be stuck inside gravitational potential wells, giving them a new degree of freedom to enter and exit timespace / hyperspace at will. That level of existence is called “fourth density” but here I wish to give a technical hypothesis of what that really means: total quantum phase freedom and conscious navigation through imaginary time.

 

The Future in Your Hands

 

Ultimately this means that where (and when) we end up depends on where we need to end up, on the culmination of our spiritual choices in life, and on what resonates most with our soul natures, because it is these that determine what realities we access after entering hyperspace.

 

That’s why it’s incredibly unrealistic to say that come 2012 everyone on earth is guaranteed to ascend to a higher level. That scenario would violate the freewill of those not ready and encourage passivity since, with ascension being guaranteed, all one needs to do is sit around and wait until 2012 comes, which is no different from the Christian Rapture or other doomsday lifestyles that promote passively waiting for the end. As far as the common criticism goes that even the kind of Shift mentioned in this article is no different from Rapture theories since it deals with a “grand event” that leads to a “judging of people” — keep in mind that the criteria for the sorting process discussed here is based entirely on freewill and spiritual necessity rather than some backwards moralistic dogma, and that the only ones doing the judging are the individuals themselves (or rather their own higher selves).

 

Realm Dynamics explains why the principles underlying the Shift are the same ones active at a lower degree in our lives everyday. If you want to know what your quantum phase resonance is, look at the kind of experiences you are attracting right now. What is the “theme” of your life experiences? Are you madly clambering for material satisfactions, stepping over others to attain your ambitions? Do you constantly suffer misfortune after misfortune, hostility, and persecution? Or do you strive for greater awareness and balance, with your life having its regular share of miracles? There are a thousand further questions, but these should get you thinking.

 

To vector onto the optimal reality trajectory, it takes a combination of optimal attitude, awareness, and action. More on these in another future article, but see my research note on attitude vs awareness. The greater your awareness, the more harmonious your attitude, and the more responsible your actions, the more you resonate with positive probable futures. Leave one of these out and the triad is broken, imbalance arises, and problems inevitably creep in.

 

I believe that if we do our part to empower ourselves, assist others in need, and continually reinforce the connection with our inner voice of intuition and spiritual conscience, we will ever come closer to remembering who we are and why we are here. With this “blueprint” of higher awareness fully activated in our souls, what precipitates from the hyperdimensional state is a new reality in full harmony with that blueprint.

[Thunderbird]

 

Finally, a point of accuracyDNA is not coherent. Coherence is only exhibited by particles that don’t interact with their surroundings during a particular test, such as photons, beams of electrons or other very small particles. Large objects can exhibit coherence in a Bose–Einstein condensate state, but such states require cooling to near absolute zero temperature to eliminate interaction among its particles. In vivo DNA would be destroyed by such a low temperature.

 

DNA is quantum coherent. :phones:

 

 

Quantum Computing in DNA

Stuart Hameroff

 

Hypothesis: DNA utilizes quantum information and quantum computation for various functions. Superpositions of dipole states of base pairs consisting of purine (A,G) and pyrimidine (C,T) ring structures play the role of qubits, and quantum communication (coherence, entanglement, non-locality) occur in the “pi stack” region of the DNA molecule

[CraigD]

DNA is quantum coherent. :naughty:

Quantum Computing in DNA

Stuart Hameroff

 

Hypothesis: DNA utilizes quantum information and quantum computation for various functions. Superpositions of dipole states of base pairs consisting of purine (A,G) and pyrimidine (C,T) ring structures play the role of qubits, and quantum communication (coherence, entanglement, non-locality) occur in the “pi stack” region of the DNA molecule

Thank’s for the reference. :thumbs_up

 

Though I’ve read Stuart Hameroff’s work with Roger Penrose on the possibility of quantum computing in microtubules in brain neurons (the “Orch-OR” theory of consciousness), this is the first I’ve heard his suggestion of similar phenomena in other structures, such as DNA.

 

Hameroff’s a very smart guy, and Penrose a very smart, but their hypothesis are highly speculative, and far from even the beginnings of experimental designs that might support them, let alone experimental support. The fundamental problem temperature problem I mention above is discussed in greater detail and with references in the ”the decoherence problem” section of the “Orch-OR” wikipedia article.

 

In short, a hypothesis is not a proven fact. In the case of Orch-OR’s hypotheses, their outlook is not looking good: Orch-OR requires the maintenance of a coherent state at room (actually, body) temperature for at least [math]2.5 \times 10^{-5} \,\mbox{s}[/math], while even the most optimistic calculations predict at best a persistence of [math]10^{-6} \,\mbox{s}[/math]. I don’t know this work, but will try to gain some familiarity.

 

I remain skeptical that gravity, either via a static or changing (gravitional wave) gravitational field, can alter DNA without destroying the organisms much more delicate tissues. Gravity affects anything with mass – unlike biological molecules, it can’t be selective in the way necessary to alter a genome.

[Thunderbird]

I remain skeptical that gravity, either via a static or changing (gravitional wave) gravitational field, can alter DNA without destroying the organisms much more delicate tissues. Gravity affects anything with mass – unlike biological molecules, it can’t be selective in the way necessary to alter a genome.

 

All of this is very speculative, but from my understanding a gravity wave is not like other waves. From a Newtonion physical standpoint a wave can be seen as a pulse of energy though a medium, but more precisely as a pulse of information. Contained with in these information system are divisions depending upon the medium they move though. Gravity is not one of these force’s we understand very well but as the article postulates the information medium could be one of profound implication. A master organizing wave that moves the fabric of space/time.

 

It would not be felt on the physical medium but on the underlying quantum level, which you should well know is not divided.

[Thunderbird]

I have just glanced back up to the article above, and realized that the event horizon that surrounds the singularity, which is a likely a division in the fabric of space time, would expand outward from such an event.

[freeztar]

I have just glanced back up to the article above, and realized that the event horizon that surrounds the singularity, which is a likely a division in the fabric of space time, would expand outward from such an event.

 

What do you mean by this TB?

 

Perhaps it would be best to start a new thread on this topic as it doesn't have any correlation with the current thread topic.