Before Columbus Era - The Bronze Age

[lotfinia]

All dates not enclosed in (parenthesis) are best approximation of real BCE, before Common Era or before Christian Era whatever your preference, dates.

 

 

The Bronze Age is an exciting period in the development of humanity. In many regions of Europe, the EBA starts about 3,200. Some of the other notable places and start periods range from 3,300 the Middle East and the Indian Subcontinent. China starts its Bronze Age period in 3,000 and Korea in 1,500. North and South America never fully entered it, the same for many island nations around the world.

 

Its end date is even more scattered than its founding dates. In the Middle East, and the Indian Subcontinent it proceeded to the Iron Age 2,100 years later about 1,200, Europe around 600, China 700, and Korea in 300. It is the longest historical span of time in the history of the human race.

 

Characteristics of the Bronze Age:

 

Arsenical bronze: It gave its name to the era and was used for household items, personal goods, and war in the usage of swords, daggers, arrowheads, and wheeled carts that evolved into chariots.

 

Writing and literature: Are both major facets of the Bronze Age. From the Mesopotamian Bronze Age temple culture, to the Egyptian royal court writing developed about the same time and spread from their site of origin. One of the earliest human activities to benefit from writing was recording what was needed to understand and maintain wealth. Oral traditions, called Wisdom Texts in Egypt are written before the Giza Pyramids were built 2525. Mesopotamia, by the way led the way again in writing down oral traditions.

 

Building in stone: While monolithic stone centers such as Nabta Playa, Stonehenge and the others existed prior to the Bronze Age. It was in the Bronze Age and the Middle East, that building in stone began to really take shape and function. One of the earliest was the simple Sumerian ziqqurat the White Temple dating to 3,200, followed by the Step Pyramid of the Egyptian Pharaoh commonly known as Djoser (he is correctly identified by his Horus name as Netjerikhet) in 2650.

 

Domesticated animals: By the start of the Bronze Age-Middle East, domestication of animals was an accomplished fact- selective breeding was the hot story in the early part of the Bronze Age. Herd animals such as sheep, goats, and cattle. Drafting of draft able animals begins early if not in the preceding era. More and more science or archaeology, if you are of that mind-is providing evidence of horses being domesticated by the 3rd millennium. (See The Horse, The Wheel, and Language- How Bronze-Age Riders From the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World . David W. Anthony. (2007) Princeton.

 

Mastery of water travel: There is no known existing hard evidence that humanity’s earlier epochs mastered long distance water travel. By the end of the Bronze Age, many of the nations were hardy sea-faring states- the Greeks, Phoenicians to name two. Although the Greek Cyclades Islands provide ample evidence of sailing and trading with Egypt, the Levant, and Anatolia in the 4th millennium. Their major trade items were emery and obsidian. See Thera in the Bronze Age,. Phyllis Young Forsyth. American University Studies, Series IX, History: vol. 187. (1999) Second paperback printing. Peter Lang.

 

Accounting for Time: A major failure for most of the Bronze Age was the lack of an easy system of keeping tracks of large blocks of time. It was left for the late Bronze Age Greeks to save the Bronze Age from completely failing in this major need of humanity. Beginning in 776, the Greek institution of the Olympics every four years provided the first way dependable way, to keep track of large blocks of time.

 

Retainer sacrifice: In the Middle East, particularly it ends first in Egypt before the 2750 start of 2nd Dynasty when substitution and magic replaced it at the burial of Pharaoh. The last known large scale retainer sacrifice dates to 2560 at Ur and the royal burial of Queen Puabi/Shaubad.

 

During the Middle East’s Bronze Age there were two Dark Ages the first dating from about 2,300-to-1,900 with the second starting about 1200. What makes these Dark Ages so interesting is not the backward falling of the civilizations; but the pick-up and forward motion they exhibit in the archaeological records upon recovery.

 

In Egypt after the first Dark Age the loosening of religious strictures that bound the majority of the people to eternal servitude to pharaoh to achieve the afterlife. Re-conquests of Nubia, and the Southern Levant resume.

In Mesopotamia despite the disappearance of the Sumerians and their language vigorous empires, resume conquest and governance. The King is now fully invested with the power of the gods but clearly not their equal; as in the fashion of Naram Sin.

 

The second Dark Age brings on the end of the Bronze Age, only to reopen into the Iron Age and a major westward push by a large number of Eastern peoples.

 

Breaking down the Bronze Age into manageable units.

 

Early Bronze Age (EBA) 3,3000-2,100 contains EBA I; EBA II; EBA III and EBA IV not to mention the specialists divisions.

 

Middle Bronze Age (MBA) 2,100- 1550 Also as, Intermediate Bronze Age (IBA) MBA I; MBA II A; MBA IIB; and MBA II C

 

Late Bronze Age (LBA) 1,550-1,200 LBA I; LBA IIA; and LBA II B.

 

This is a highly abridged version on the Bronze Age of the Middle East. There are many excellent books on the subject.

[Qfwfq]

What's Columbus got to do with it?

[lotfinia]

What's Columbus got to do with it?

 

 

That is a fair question Qfwfq. :D

 

In part, it is commentary. On those that believe, one is either- or- in the never-ending cyclic debate science vs. creationism/biblical crowd. With this crowd, one can’t have a simply historical interest, or POV. This is moot as far as the debate is concerned. :(

 

On the other hand BCE before Common Era ends at the birth of Christ, but offends the before Christ crowd. While the real Common Era really only begins after Columbus discovered the whole other half of the Earth. Meaning today is really only year 519 C.E. not 2011 C.E. as currently practiced by the Western World. (and I am of that ethnic division.) :D

 

I am a historian specializing in the Bronze Age Middle East; my belief in divinity is my business, and a private affair. As I have shown on this board up to this point and hope to continue. Because of my specialization, I deal with all the major Abrahamic religions and prefer to maintain cordial relations with all members. Therefore, my faith system is my business, and separated from my work interest despite what some on this board might fantasize, and claim/demand to know. If clarification of this statement,is needed please see thread Does Ancient Egypt Support a Worldwide Noah Like Flood.

[Eclogite]

I'm sorry Sunshine, but you have almost completely lost me. I think I understand that you are suggesting that rather than date things from the nominal birth of Christ we should choose a more secular date, such as Columbus's discovery of America. It is an interesting idea. However, I don't follow why - having obscurely included that thought in your thread title - you made no mention of it in the body of the post. There is, apparently, a disconnect between the thread title and the post itself. I feel I'm missing something and would welcome your clarification.

 

Also, you speak at some length about the privacy of your faith. No one introduced the topic in this thread. Nothing in your thread or its title seemed to have any bearing on your faith. So I am puzzled, indeed bemused, as to why you highlight something that no one asked about that you wish to keep private. I'm sure I'm missing something really simple here, but would be grateful if you would explain what it is.

[Qfwfq]

While the real Common Era really only begins after Columbus discovered the whole other half of the Earth.

You're welcome to see it this way, in which case you could have had the following sentence:

 

All dates not enclosed in (parenthesis) are best approximation of the number of years before Columbus discovered the other half of Earth.

in lieu of the first one in the OP (granting the Americas to be as much as half of Earth), it would have made more sense to do this and (obviously) accordingly adjust all the figures in your post. :shrug:

[Turtle]

Accounting for Time: A major failure for most of the Bronze Age was the lack of an easy system of keeping tracks of large blocks of time. It was left for the late Bronze Age Greeks to save the Bronze Age from completely failing in this major need of humanity. Beginning in 776, the Greek institution of the Olympics every four years provided the first way[sic] dependable way, to keep track of large blocks of time.

...

This is a highly abridged version on the Bronze Age of the Middle East. There are many excellent books on the subject.

 

a major failure of the "Accounting for Time" section above is that it is patently false. highly abridged = contrary evidence left out. many excellent web sites support my assertion.

 

interestingly you mention Nabta Playa as a megolithic site, yet fail to mention it is an observatory dating to before the bronze age.

 

world's oldest observatory found?

Every so often we read exciting headlines proclaiming that the "world's oldest this or that" has been discovered by archaeologists.

...

More recently, a site at Qarahunge in Armenia, also known as Zorats Karer (below), is likewise being claimed as the "world's oldest observatory," evidently dating to around 4,500 to 7,600 years ago, according to Armenian astronomer Paris Herouni.

 

This group of circles composed of hundreds of stones is said to be oriented the same as Stonehenge and to be,

"clearly pointing to the sun on the summer solstice day."

Stars & Stones 2010

 

Herouni further speculates that the ruins represent a temple to the sun god Ari.

 

Some of Herouni's contentions are backed by Oxford University astrophysicist Mihran Vardanyan, the leader of the joint expedition to Qaranunge by Oxford and the Royal Geographical Society who asserts that Qarahunge represents the "oldest observatory in the world."

 

...

In Egypt, we find the site of Nabta Playa (below), some 6,000 to 8,000 years old and deemed, "one of the world's earliest known examples of archeoastronomy."

...

From cave paintings, statuary, "calendar sticks" and other artifacts dating to tens of thousands of years ago, we know that even more ancient cultures possessed important astronomical knowledge.

 

Many of these artifacts also appear to have religious value as well, additionally pushing the astrotheological religion back by millennia.

 

so it goes. :circle:

[lotfinia]

You're welcome to see it this way, in which case you could have had the following sentence:

 

All dates not enclosed in (parenthesis) are best approximation of the number of years before Columbus discovered the other half of Earth.

in lieu of the first one in the OP (granting the Americas to be as much as half of Earth), it would have made more sense to do this and (obviously) accordingly adjust all the figures in your post. :shrug:

 

 

Yes, Qfwfq I could have but it makes no difference in Before Common Era dating until we get into Common Era or AD dating. Since my Common Era or A.D. dates in the OP were limited to two published books. Changing those dates wouldn't have helped anyone interested in looking them up, if I had converted them to After Colombus Era dates.

 

Besides it is more a private joke amongst colleagues than a fact, the fiction is just to ingrained. Honestly, I wanted a catchy title and chosed to use Before Columbus Era, simply because it works and my introduction said to use the BCE that was preferred.

[Qfwfq]

Honestly, I wanted a catchy title and chosed to use Before Columbus Era

Exactly. As for your logic, I just don't get it. Perhaps I would need to be one of your colleagues who knows the private joke?.

 

In short, you must have expected that people here would be confused. :naughty:

[lotfinia]

Exactly. As for your logic, I just don't get it. Perhaps I would need to be one of your colleagues who knows the private joke?.

 

In short, you must have expected that people here would be confused. :naughty:

 

 

Please! Stop wagging a finger at me. I wanted a catchy title only and BCE does stand just as viably for Before Colombus Era as the contentious use of either Before Common Era, or Before Christ Era for what I was posting.

 

As for my logic escaping you, as I added the acceptance of Before Christ Era, or Before Common Era is just too ingrained.

 

 

That it is also a private joke is a non-sequinter to your accusation and finger wagging.

[lotfinia]

Qfwfq

 

Your complaint against my not using adjusted Before Columbus Era dates didn’t registered. Nor would I have used them because they would have been too unusual, confusing, and would have complicated further research by readers. Why make readers re-compute the actually used and the ingrained Before Common or Before Christ Era dates?

 

Moreover, as my first line in the post clarified that the dates not enclosed in parentheses are either Before Common or Before Christ Era. Any confusion with the title should have been minimized.

 

My usage of Before Columbus Era as a title is catchy and with your questions, we only enlighten readers further; that there is another dating application, and with truer validation, than the contentious causing BCE, as historically understood.

[Eclogite]

Hi sunshine, I would appreciate a reply to my post #4 above. You've clarified the issue for BCE, but I'm still confused by the comments on faith. Thanks.

[CraigD]

Accounting for Time: A major failure for most of the Bronze Age was the lack of an easy system of keeping tracks of large blocks of time. It was left for the late Bronze Age Greeks to save the Bronze Age from completely failing in this major need of humanity. Beginning in 776, the Greek institution of the Olympics every four years provided the first way[sic] dependable way, to keep track of large blocks of time.

...

This is a highly abridged version on the Bronze Age of the Middle East. There are many excellent books on the subject.

 

a major failure of the "Accounting for Time" section above is that it is patently false. highly abridged = contrary evidence left out. many excellent web sites support my assertion.

Though I too find it difficult to discern what Sunshine is trying to express in this thread, I think his characterization of the early Bronze Age as lacking “an easy system of keeping tracks of large blocks of time” useful and accurate. His mention of the importance of the Greek Olympics in establishing a standard calendar era is accurate and fairly uncontroversial among historians. Quoting the wikipedia article calendar era:

The pan-Hellenic games provided the various independent city-states a mutually recognizable system of dates. The first Olympiad also marks the traditional beginning of Greek historical civilization and record-keeping, and it continues to be regarded as the end of Western prehistory and the beginning of its historical epoch.

The problem of “keeping track of large blocks of time” is not so much one of counting – people called “prehistoric” in the sense used above were not necessarily illiterate or innumerate – but rather a lack of common events to allow them to synchronize their local calendars across large geographic or temporal distances – or if they had them, records of these events failed to long survive their original users. References such as “the 17th year of the reign of King X” lose their utility when sufficient records about King X are lost.

 

I wanted a catchy title only and BCE does stand just as viably for Before Colombus Era as the contentious use of either Before Common Era, or Before Christ Era for what I was posting.

 

... my belief in divinity is my business, and a private affair. As I have shown on this board up to this point and hope to continue. Because of my specialization, I deal with all the major Abrahamic religions and prefer to maintain cordial relations with all members. Therefore, my faith system is my business, and separated from my work interest despite what some on this board might fantasize, and claim/demand to know.

My belief or lack of belief in the divine/supernatural is not a private matter: I don’t believe in gods, spirits, or other things that cannot be physically sensed, only mentally believed in.

 

I encourage you to share your belief or lack of belief in the divine/supernatural. If you do not, I believe most readers will assume that you are a “closet theist”, and be suspicious of your motives and claims.

[Turtle]

Accounting for Time: A major failure for most of the Bronze Age was the lack of an easy system of keeping tracks of large blocks of time. It was left for the late Bronze Age Greeks to save the Bronze Age from completely failing in this major need of humanity. Beginning in 776, the Greek institution of the Olympics every four years provided the first way[sic] dependable way, to keep track of large blocks of time.

...

This is a highly abridged version on the Bronze Age of the Middle East. There are many excellent books on the subject.

 

a major failure of the "Accounting for Time" section above is that it is patently false. highly abridged = contrary evidence left out. many excellent web sites support my assertion.

 

Though I too find it difficult to discern what Sunshine is trying to express in this thread, I think his characterization of the early Bronze Age as lacking “an easy system of keeping tracks of large blocks of time” useful and accurate. His mention of the importance of the Greek Olympics in establishing a standard calendar era is accurate and fairly uncontroversial among historians. Quoting the wikipedia article calendar era:

The pan-Hellenic games provided the various independent city-states a mutually recognizable system of dates. The first Olympiad also marks the traditional beginning of Greek historical civilization and record-keeping, and it continues to be regarded as the end of Western prehistory and the beginning of its historical epoch.

 

so make no mistake; i am having no difficultly discerning what sunshine means to express in this thread. consider that it is no accident that in the passage in question above, there is a conflation of "late Bronze Age Greeks" with "humanity". this conveniently dismisses other cultures as part of humanity and sets the stage of humanity smack-dab in the bible belt. such phraseology is nothing more or less than a stylistic device meant to delude and sunshine makes full use of it.

 

moreover, while the olympics may have played a time-keeping role, such time-keeping is original neither in time or culture to the greeks as i showed by the sources i referenced in the rest of my post that you quote. if one bothers to go to that source link one finds a fair amount of discussion on what role the observatories that predate the bronze age played in the lives of people 'round about them and that role is every bit as much about keeping track of large blocks of time, social cohesion, religion, planning, administration & so on as it was for the greek olympics in the bronze age.

 

at any rate, i'm sure sunshine can clear this all up by directly answering the questions you and eclogite have posed to her on her motives and claims. i'm not holding my breath and i make no apologies for that.

[lotfinia]

Hi sunshine, I would appreciate a reply to my post #4 above. You've clarified the issue for BCE, but I'm still confused by the comments on faith. Thanks.

 

 

I regret, I didn't have the time to answer your post earlier today, ecologite. I believe you will not like my answer. It is, I felt pressured by our past communications on previous threads, and even more so by Turtle's unfounded accusations in the aforementioned thread, to make such a comment. As I wrote, the opportunity to make such a comment seemed to present itself. I took it, and felt much better for making it.

 

By the way Sunshine is more a reflection of what I consider as my home state Flordia- the Sunshine State - than of me. Addressing me on this board would be better by using 2118; since you apparently haven't noticed I have signed other posts as 2118.

[lotfinia]

a major failure of the "Accounting for Time" section above is that it is patently false. highly abridged = contrary evidence left out. many excellent web sites support my assertion.

 

interestingly you mention Nabta Playa as a megolithic site, yet fail to mention it is an observatory dating to before the bronze age.

 

 

 

According to ancient documentation, the largest blocks of time calculated in the Bronze Age were day, month, year, and the Egyptians use of the Sothic year calculated as 1,461 Egyptian years. There was no easy way to measure the length of the Mycenaean period of Greece, the length of Spartan control of Greece, the length of Hyksos intrusion in Egypt, the Kassite control over Babylon, or the length of time from the building of the Step Pyramid to the Great Pyramid. Unless you counted the individual lengths of the various rulers hoping the chroniclers had listed everyone and correctly.

 

With this in mind, it is rather easy to see why post-Olympic dating archaic scholars such as Eratosthenes (b. c. 285-80 d.c. 194BCE) AKA the Father of Scientific Chronology placed the historical date of mankind at 0776BC (1st Olympic game) and the Roman historian Varro agreed with that date. It is also the major reason why it is claimed that the Bible allows only a six thousand year human Earth history.

 

Since, I don’t assume everyone on a site promoting science to be hapless in intelligence. I hadn’t considered some might not be able to discover what the origin of the Nabta Playa site was for. Had they further interest leading them to look it up, since I did link it with Stonehenge.

 

Furthermore, your wanting to use it now, for time keeping, you are simply showing greater confusion and it is moot: since my purpose for using the Nabta Playa. Was that in moving large megalithic stones allowed for the building of more defined spaces in the later Bronze Age. After all, when I mentioned it, it was in relation to building in stone, not time keeping.

Again, as I have said, the only measured units of time of the Bronze Age was a day, month, and year excluding Egypt that also included the Sothic year- that measured time based upon 1,461 Egyptian years. That is until the Bronze Age Greeks devised an easier unit of time, the Olympic year that counted 4 normal years between each Olympic.

While you are welcome to do such yearly counting, I stand by my original statements. Counting by Olympic years is much easier than what you want to do. But, by all means don’t let me stop you from your accounting task. I hope you get all those backward counting years correct, and your sources are all on the money. P.S. try doing it without an computer as St. Jerome, and the Archbishop James Ussher, did.

 

Just one included site of your “many sites”? What hyperbole.

 

For more on dating in ancient and archaic times I highly suggest:

 

Time Immemorial: Archaic History and it’s Sources In Christian Chronography from Julius Africanus to George Syncellus, (1989) by William Adler. Dumbarton Oaks Research Library and Collection.

 

Addendum: Julius Africanus (c. 160A.D. – c.240A.D.) is considered the Father of Christian Chronology.

 

 

This post was deleted the first time I posted it, and with my reposting it; I fully expect it to deleted again and possibly to be ban from this board.

[lotfinia]

 

My belief or lack of belief in the divine/supernatural is not a private matter: I don’t believe in gods, spirits, or other things that cannot be physically sensed, only mentally believed in.

 

I encourage you to share your belief or lack of belief in the divine/supernatural. If you do not, I believe most readers will assume that you are a “closet theist”, and be suspicious of your motives and claims.

 

 

Thank you for your opinion CraigD. However, my belief system is private due to my work, and since it is what I am posting mostly on this board... I prefer as always to keep it private.

[Eclogite]

I regret, I didn't have the time to answer your post earlier today, ecologite. I believe you will not like my answer. It is, I felt pressured by our past communications on previous threads, and even more so by Turtle's unfounded accusations in the aforementioned thread, to make such a comment. As I wrote, the opportunity to make such a comment seemed to present itself. I took it, and felt much better for making it.

Well, thank you for your explanation. I guess the pressure you felt from 'our past communications in previous threads' relates to my reasonable request that you provide citations to support a claim you made about the legend of Gilgamesh and the flood story. I am still waiting on that thread for a reply to my question as to whether the claim is one of your own devising, a minority view among experts, or the consensus view. That is a reasonable question 2118. I believe a reasonable person would have been happy to answer it. I would remind you that what you provided as citations were 1) not scholarly citations and 2) either irrelevant to the question, or directly contradicted your claim.

 

2118, perhaps this is your first time on a forum of this kind. If so I can readily understand how you might feel pressured. It is all too easy to take such pressure personally. Such is not the case. Any claim, made by any person is subject to the same demands. I've certainly been tackled on points numerous times and have been happy to supply proper citations to support my position. I've welcomed such challenges, since they have provided me with the opportunity to educate others, or myself, and often both.

 

When one has a new idea, certainly within science - I cannot speak with certainty for historical research - it is expected that the idea will be subject to intense scrutiny by interested parties. Questioners will play Devil's advocate, will seek out potential weak points, will ask for corroboration. This is all right and proper. If the idea has merit it will survive such probing and indeed be strengthened by it. I'm afraid that by resisting the questioning it makes it seem that you came here to preach, rather than discuss. Realise that the questioning, certainly on my part, is designed to better understand your viewpoint and associated ideas. After all, isn't that the purpose of a forum such as this?

 

By the way Sunshine is more a reflection of what I consider as my home state Flordia- the Sunshine State - than of me. Addressing me on this board would be better by using 2118; since you apparently haven't noticed I have signed other posts as 2118.

You are right. I certainly hadn't noticed how you signed yourself, since I am more interested in your ideas than in who you are. I thought it more polite to address you by your 'first name', sunshine, than your 'last name', the latter being a practice associated in my mind with English public schools.

 

I shall make a deal with you: I'll continue to address you as 2118, if you will call me eclogite, not ecologite. :)