Survival Wagon Idea - Recreation Or Reality TV

[nkt]

Thanks for the encouragement.

 

Today I was looking at a couple of pedalows, and trying to work out how those could be worked into the design! They are light, they float, and they have a drive underneath via the pedals.

 

I had already though of the idea of driving the wheels with the vanes set like waterwheels on a paddle steamer, but I'd rather not rely on the battery for the drive of them, since that could be an issue, especially if they battery died, as they would then act like a (pair of) sea anchor!

 

Driving them via a chain drive *or* the hub motors would be ideal. It would also allow pedal-power to recharge the battery should you need it! This is something I'd thought of as well, but without a way to add the drive in properly, it wasn't a good option.

 

Now however, I think I've got it. You see the main issue is that there will be stuff in the "boat" where you would otherwise put the drive stuff. And there is the bike part to consider. So, if we run the drive chain around the outside, and have the bike part more like a recumbent bicycle design, we can avoid this issue.

 

If this design can be worked out, it will also get rid of the front-wheel drive to the steering wheels, which removes the issues of turning the wheel and still pedalling neatly (just think of a tot's tricycle to see the steering under driving load issue!) and would also allow the use of a geared bike system with shifting gears. This in turn would give far, far greater efficiency, as the gears could be used for steeper up-hills, whilst for power generation it would be more effective on the downhills than the straight hub motor design.

 

Gar! It's all about the balance between one feature and the next, and there is the extra weight to consider too! But I think a chain drive system will be worth it, for the extra speed and the extra power generation, as well as the addition drive option. Wonder if I can make this thing fairly stable in the water, too? :hihi:

[freeztar]

I like the "water-friendly" design, but what's seems most cool is the generator attached to the wheels/axle. :hihi:

[nkt]

It's interesting trying to design something like this. It's a totally new idea from Turtle, and so it is a bit of a blank sheet of paper to start with.

 

I've no formal design background - my degree is a specialist one in aspects of laser physics, and I've worked in aerospace for a big company with no brains and no wit, and I'm now doing stuff that is completely unrelated to either of those areas!

 

However, I've been inventing and designing stuff since forever, and taking things apart to see how they (used to :hihi: ) work. And it's in my blood, my dad's been a Maker since before anyone invented the word.

 

I love these "green field" challenges.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

I like the "water-friendly" design, but what's seems most cool is the generator attached to the wheels/axle. :(

Hey!...

They've done it on passenger railcars for the past 100 years or so (successfully I might add)!:hihi:

 

 

(:hihi: just bustin em! sorry but it was just too tempting:hihi:)

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

If this design can be worked out, it will also get rid of the front-wheel drive to the steering wheels, which removes the issues of turning the wheel and still pedalling neatly

Run your chain drive to the front (A shorter chain drive will save weight and reduce reliability issues) and your steering link to the rear wheels (which will give you a tighter turning radious).

[freeztar]

Hey!...

They've done it on passenger railcars for the past 100 years or so (successfully I might add)!

 

 

(:doh: just bustin em! sorry but it was just too tempting:hihi:)

 

I don't mind being called out and edumacated.

 

Do you have some links?

[nkt]

Run your chain drive to the front (A shorter chain drive will save weight and reduce reliability issues) and your steering link to the rear wheels (which will give you a tighter turning radious).

 

I had that thought, but I don't think it will work. Steering the rear wheels would require a large radius turning circle underneath, which would require a big heavy joint, and be a probable cause of failure, as well as destroying the drag-ability and hydrodynamics of the underside when the wheels are taken off.

 

The original design has the front wheels steering and driven. This would allow for a very tight turning circle, but the drive, being direct would be very poor.

 

The more typical design of the bicycle is probably the best for the frame. If the design is changed a bit, so the rear wheels can be driven or drive under electronic control, it would be great. However, at the moment I think that having the gears on the underside axle, with a sort of locking system to capture the hub motors would be best.

 

In the perfect world, the hub motors could rotate with the wheels when "off", and then be toggled up or down to either drive the wheels in addition to the pedal/chain drive, or toggled down, to absorb pedal power back into the battery. This would be a great way to allow the hub motors to add a little to the going uphill parts, and also allow a way to recharge the battery quickly, by pedalling with the wheels chocked, unlike the first design where you would have to do something else entirely.

Sadly, I haven't really got any idea of how to do this part! Some sort of friction based clutch would work, but would be quite lossy. Perhaps magnets?

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

I don't mind being called out and edumacated.

 

Do you have some links? :cup:

Sorry but no...I'm sure I could find them (if you reeeeeeeally ask me nicely :hihi:and reeeeeeallly need them)...But for now I'll instead rely on my lifetime of being a rail nut and having been raised and surrounded by the same.

 

For example my grampa 54 years building locomotives at GE and genuine rail nut.

 

Then there's Dad his carreer has been researching rail equipment and helping model railroading product manufacturers design prototypes for production. He's also a member of the rail museum here, and a genuine rail nut.

He can and will tell ya everything you never really wanted to know about any type of american rolling stock....(I know from years and years of experience:doh:) He litterally has every book ever dedicated to the subject millions of photos of rail cars and locomotives from every concievable angle, and just as many maps of every mainline, spurline, private line, logging route, etc.etc.etc.etc.etc. And I got to hear about it all when not from him from his friends, customers, and of course Grampa.

 

But again If you really want some links I should be able to dig a few up.

[nkt]

How I built a carbon bike frame at home (and a bamboo frame too) - Instructables - DIY, How To, ride, outdoors - Entry

 

I just stumbled across this while browsing my Instructables comments. It is a step-by-step on how to build your own carbon fibre frame for a bike. Needless to say, if you are making the frame, you can make it in any shape you like.

 

If you've not come across carbon fibre anywhere other than for decoration, get yourself to a high-end bike (bicycle) shop. The last three or four years have produced frames that weigh less than my safety boots, with *no* rider weight limit! There are entire bikes that now weight less than my workclothes! (In fact, a lot less, but you'd not believe how heavy my gear is!)

[Turtle]

How I built a carbon bike frame at home (and a bamboo frame too) - Instructables - DIY, How To, ride, outdoors - Entry

 

I just stumbled across this while browsing my Instructables comments. It is a step-by-step on how to build your own carbon fibre frame for a bike. Needless to say, if you are making the frame, you can make it in any shape you like.

 

If you've not come across carbon fibre anywhere other than for decoration, get yourself to a high-end bike (bicycle) shop. The last three or four years have produced frames that weigh less than my safety boots, with *no* rider weight limit! There are entire bikes that now weight less than my workclothes! (In fact, a lot less, but you'd not believe how heavy my gear is!)

 

You sparked my imaginary friend. Rather than making a wood wagon as one usually sees them, lay it up in the same way a cedar strip canoe is built and proceed with the wheels & all as you have suggested.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

In fact, a lot less, but you'd not believe how heavy my gear is!)

I'm a welder I believe it. Helmet, respirator, thick leather welding jacket, thick leather apron, right arm heat shield, thick elbow length gloves, kneepads, rod pouch, tool belt, 7" angle grinder, and size 14 1/2 steel toed work boots with metatarsals. All in all about forty five or fifty pounds of gear!

[Turtle]

I'm not sure the wheels on this rig are up to off-road grade, but it's a nice unit that folds out into a bed. Rather than the dogs or goats we have talked about to pull the carts, perhaps homeless people is the way to go? :Bump2: Like Kramer & Newman with their rickshaw. :) :Bump2:

 

Los Angeles Times Video

 

EDAR

[freeztar]

I'm not sure the wheels on this rig are up to off-road grade, but it's a nice unit that folds out into a bed. Rather than the dogs or goats we have talked about to pull the carts, perhaps homeless people is the way to go? :doh: Like Kramer & Newman with their rickshaw. :( :Alien:

 

Los Angeles Times Video

 

EDAR

 

Interesting. Apart from the "enabling" factor, it seems like a good design...

[Turtle]

Interesting. Apart from the "enabling" factor, it seems like a good design...

 

You mean enabling folk to sleep up off the ground? :hyper: I saw this cart as a news story and in context it is a matter of need rather than enabling homelessness. In LA where these get distributed, they simply don't have enough shelter beds for the homeless. I expect the number of homeless nation wide is going to only increase during these hard economic times. :eek2:

 

I have to admit that even with all my careful preparation with my wagon, I may not have the oomph to haul it very damn far. :eek: :doh: Guess I better get in shape for this years wagon rally. :) :hyper: .................

[Turtle]

 

I have to admit that even with all my careful preparation with my wagon, I may not have the oomph to haul it very damn far. :eek: :doh: Guess I better get in shape for this years wagon rally. :) :hyper: .................

 

so i test-pulled my wagon over a steep medium-rough terrain in march - i think it was march - using the harness poles for the first time. while better than reaching back & pulling on the stock wagon-handle, with a load of a mere 60 pounds and a second person pushing from behind, the course covered is little better described by any term other than "brutal". :omg: my small wheels make going over a 4inch log an exercise in sheer brute strength if you don't take a winch, winch i did not. :doh: uphill relatively flat is a doable slog for 2. i was surprised how important some communicative cooperation is. always useful to announce "i'm loosing it" when one or more of you is, well, loosing it. :lightning you'll want a shoulder high something in back to push on though as i hear that the leaning over & pushing is, erhm..."uncomfortable". downhill with no brakes will at the very least soil your drawers & at worst crush and/or drag you outright. horses will shy at your approach & have to be led by you & your satan's contraption. :evil: :shrug: horseriders & hikers will do their best to not make eye contact with you. :hihi:

 

anyway, what with the world going to hell in a handbasket, hell in a wagon is looking not so bad even with the difficulties. after all, i won $100 in march for first place in the 2010 hand-cart & wagon rally!! so, how's your wagon and/or wagon-plans? :steering:

 

[Illiad]

What about a portable water filter instead of lugging a lot of water around?

 

_A bow is a good idea for several reasons beyond the hunting you mention. First of course is defense, & in the vein of survival, if you have stuff & others don't, they will attack you for it. Further, with a bow, you can make more arrows from sticks & stones, & in fact make a suitable bow from found wood.

If you are attacked, I think it would most probably be a group of 2 or more so they can safely overpower you and still have energy left to lug all your stuff back. Your first shot may or may not hit its mark (if you had the time to draw), but you wont have enough time to re draw your bow. Its only good for medium to well-not-that-far range and you wont know they came for your wagon till they're in your face. I suggest you learn how to use your machete or axe in a fight. They are quicker, in close combat. Also setting traps for small animals saves you the time you would otherwise be spending hiding in bushes, with your bow and arrows looking out for critters

[Turtle]

What about a portable water filter instead of lugging a lot of water around?

that's a good idea & i do have a 1 pint filter bottle in my bug-out bag & the plan is to toss the bag in the wagon if there's time. :clock: :lightning :omg: :doh: . nonetheless, having the capacity to carry ~ 5 gallons/40 pounds of water helps get you over the patches with no water source, provides for washing as well as drinking & cooking, and gives you a vessel to collect water from a source when the opportunity arises. if water is available, pour out however much you don't want to haul. i also carry a little jar of bleach; 16 drops to the gallon i seem to recall. then there's always boiling.

 

 

_A bow is a good idea for several reasons beyond the hunting you mention. First of course is defense, & in the vein of survival, if you have stuff & others don't, they will attack you for it. Further, with a bow, you can make more arrows from sticks & stones, & in fact make a suitable bow from found wood.

If you are attacked, I think it would most probably be a group of 2 or more so they can safely overpower you and still have energy left to lug all your stuff back. Your first shot may or may not hit its mark (if you had the time to draw), but you wont have enough time to re draw your bow. Its only good for medium to well-not-that-far range and you wont know they came for your wagon till they're in your face. I suggest you learn how to use your machete or axe in a fight. They are quicker, in close combat. Also setting traps for small animals saves you the time you would otherwise be spending hiding in bushes, with your bow and arrows looking out for critters.

 

certainly given the opportunity to take a weapon, a gun is a no brainer. still, an ambush is as an ambush does. who ya gonna call? :eek2: i think however that one really could make a bow & arrows with minimum tools, but not so likely a gun or ammunition. moreover, having a bow along might do more than kill, like shooting light lines high and/or far to haul heavier belay lines with.

 

thanks for replying illiad! i love this stuff like coco puffs!!