Ancient Indigenous Tribe Narrates Identity Of All Tribes In The World Originated From Cibolan In Davao

[belovelife]

are we getting off topic

 

 

 

(imagine me saying that )

 

ok

 

 

 

 

:weather_hot: :smart:

 

 

 

 

 

 

:smart:

[sigurdV]

The magic formula "Popper" calms down the agitated bull hypothesis: sigurdV, who is now seen happily feeding on supposed green matter from eden served in this thread Might a list of the languages just above the root might be of some help in the linguist side of the hypothesis?I think John Barrow in "The pi in the sky" is doing a marvellous telling of the story: He notices that the further you go from rift valley the poorer the conception of number is! Establishing a connection between lingustics (in the wide sense of including mathematics) and genetics.

 

And,I agree that the small matter concerning method in the entries above is not belonging to the topic... perhaps the Metatopic then?

 

What will myopic administrators decide if the methods needed for deciding on the topic are adressed instead of the topic, declare them off topic?? :iamsmiling:

 

Belovelife is surely a first class artist when it comes to emoticons!(ok ok not in the topic I know! But shouldnt there be a thread somewhere dedicated on translating statements into the language of emoticons (and back) ,the set of which perhaps should be enlargened? Where is the cow/bull munching on...)

[rocket art]

1.) Genetic evidence Since you have clarified your meaning of "all tribes in the world" to mean "all descending tribes of the Bagobo people", my genetic complaint is no longer relevant. I would caution against future statements that may cloud the issue, as it was not apparent to me what you were claiming.

 

2.) Geological evidence You still have not shown any geological process that could have done away with a continent in the time that humans have existed as a species. It would be silly of me to argue that limestone formations above ground did not originate from the sea floor. It would be silly of me to argue that the occasional city or two could not have been engulfed by rising ocean levels. I have not argued either of those points. My complaint is specific. There is no evidence, and in fact there is no known geological process that can remove a continent from the face of the Earth in 200,000 years. However, neither have you shown that this is even a part of the origin myth you are seeking to explain. This entire line of investigation seems to me to taint your presentation with the same stain of wishful thinking and mysticism contrary to evidence that exists with all claims of a lost continent, Atlantis, Mu, or otherwise.

 

3.) Archaeological evidence I have previously stated existence alone of other archaeological sites without evidence associating them with the Bagobo people is not support for your claims. Your reply was nothing but more suppositions.

 

4.) Linguistic evidence So far, the only evidence you have provided is that Cibola sounds similar to Cibolan and the Dravidian word civ-pola. This is superficial. In order to be more than just purely circumstancial, you would need to show some etymological tie from Dravidian to the Zuni language. If there were a link, one would expect to find more similar vocabulary and grammar. Cibolo/cibola is an old Spanish word for buffalo. The evidence is overwhelming that the A:shawi in the area had contact with the Spanish, that the Spanish named their area Cibola, and that they did so because the buffalo was an integral part of their life. I have done some digging around about the origin of the "seven cities of Cibola" story, and have found numerous references but no proof from a solid source that the myth, and therefore the name, originates from Spain itself, not from India.

 

The myth as told by the Spanish that named the area has its beginning in the Muslim invasion of the city of Marida, Spain, in 1150. Seven bishops fled the city with the church's riches and sailed west to escape the Moors. Each bishop was said to have founded a city which grew in wealth, however, as myths often do, there was never any attempt to give the location of these seven cities.

 

Fast forward now to the Spanish conquest of the New World. Álvar Núñez Cabeza de Vaca, one of only 4 surviving members of the Narváez expedition to colonize Florida, recounts tails of riches and claims to have found evidence of the lost seven cities. His tale is truly amazing, but only important to this story in that he helped fuel the rumors of further riches in the American southwest.

 

Flush from looting the Aztecs, and in search of more gold, the viceroy sent Fra Marcos de Niza to find the lost cities. He took with him Estevanico, a slave and another survivor of the Narváez expedition, and two others. They turned back after illness struck the group, but in the distance, they had spotted a vast pueblo settlement and when they returned to Mexico City, they claimed to have found the first of the lost cities in the district the Spanish had named Cibola. The next year, Coronado set out on his famous mission to find the seven cities, and Marcos de Niza was disgraced when all they found were two pueblo cities.

 

 

Thank you for providing an account of the Bagobo origin myth. In case you don't have it already, here's an online copy of the entire book that contains that passage. Philippine Folk Tales by Mabel Cook Cole. As noted in your source and in the footnotes of the book by Cole

 

 

I would like to reply to your statements as much as possible, however due to limited time I will try to enumerate relative to my availability. I will now be replying to your statement evidence 1 as for the moment, and will share the same with the others when availability provides.

 

1.) Genetic evidence Since you have clarified your meaning of "all tribes in the world" to mean "all descending tribes of the Bagobo people", my genetic complaint is no longer relevant. I would caution against future statements that may cloud the issue, as it was not apparent to me what you were claiming.

 

Indeed so. To remind however, the statement as mentioned in the Title of the article still remains my position.

 

Perhaps it may interest you, as I have noticed in the video you posted, there is also recorded among the earliest settlers in the geneaology of our country's pre-colonial ancestors was a tribe of seeming similar characteristics with the San bushmen. They were known as the Negritos (present-day Aetas) with origins being traced along areas of Madagascar. Similarly with the San bushmen, they also possessed crude technology. They were however, considered among the best archers.

 

Fast forward, based on the account of the Bagobo mythology there was mention among those children that scattered throughout were the foreparents of B'laan peoples (who carried with them the ancient knowledge of supposed hermaphroditic ancestors hence manifesting a belief system/culture, in which such knowledge was also narrated by the Greek philosopher Plato) that mentioned of more "advanced" technology by carrying with them women's woven baskets known as "b'raan" hence their name originated from. Indeed it portrayed a people scattered throughout with more developed technology and manifesting an intelligence of "Tribe" consciousness.

 

It therefore solidifies further my position.

 

 

 

 

But then I'd like to mention our ancient ancestors also possesed with them myths of origins of Humankind. However, it was more of "creation" (not to be misconstrued as influenced by Christianity as it is more ancient) rather than evolution, intriguingly even with detail as to mention the deity choosing specific location as sourcing ingredient for skeletal system from the limestone cliffs of Bukidnon, Mindanao island :blink:. However as underlined in your statement, we may as well tackle for the moment the relevance of the 2,3, and 4 evidences with due consideration to time and availability :thumbs_up:

[rocket art]

The first step in the process of getting the majority to recognize truth would be to show the truth of one's truth that one's truth is not false, would it not?

 

*I like that wording better. As always, the null hypothesis is assumed and it should be the goal of the promoter of non-standard explanations to gather evidence that causes one to reject the null hypothesis. Proving truths is for the omniscient.

 

Hey! We are going to clash!

 

Prove that "Proving truths is for the omniscient"... which would prove YOU omniscient!

 

Its ok if you only s h o w the truth of your last statement, which by the way is the only thing in your entry i cant accept (Bribed a little, since no truth can be false according to classic logic, but i think you really meant statement.) :)

 

PS Where did you pick up the term "null hypothesis"? Isnt "dull hypothesis" more apt? :lol:

 

your ongoing arguments folks reminded me of a composition I once made:

 

"It takes one to know everything before he can say he knows nothing.

 

I do not know everything, so I cannot say I know nothing." - Ric Vil Hori

 

Hopefully the logic behind the composition will resolve the issue so we can proceed with the appropriate topic at hand :D

[sigurdV]

your ongoing arguments folks reminded me of a composition I once made:

 

"It takes one to know everything before he can say he knows nothing.

 

I do not know everything, so I cannot say I know nothing." - Ric Vil Hori

 

Hopefully the logic behind the composition will resolve the issue so we can proceed with the appropriate topic at hand :D

 

Well said! Your composition (Probably dedicated to Socrates.) is not "strictly true" if what is means is that we eventually can know nothing...But it IS explaining the matter in an admirable way! Please continue, ancient matters are fascinating!

[rocket art]

Well said! Your composition (Probably dedicated to Socrates.) is not "strictly true" if what is means is that we eventually can know nothing...But it IS explaining the matter in an admirable way! Please continue, ancient matters are fascinating!

 

Woah thanks woohoo :lol: B) :D

 

(Socrates composed something similar to that?)

 

 

Ok we continue,

 

2.) Geological evidence You still have not shown any geological process that could have done away with a continent in the time that humans have existed as a species. It would be silly of me to argue that limestone formations above ground did not originate from the sea floor. It would be silly of me to argue that the occasional city or two could not have been engulfed by rising ocean levels. I have not argued either of those points.

 

 

I believe there is evidence, and it's even larger. I believe the archipelago islands of the Philippines is a major evidence itself. I believe the archipelago was borne out of more recent origin, more likely in the Cenozoic era, and it's volcanic in origin mostly borne out of Subduction, and in a series of consequences as the Philippine and Marianas trenches became more prominent, the continuing movement of the crust from where the legendary continent was located sunk deeper underwater towards the heat of the mantle, to be spewed out as magma by its many volcanoes to bring forth the archipelago islands.

 

My complaint is specific. There is no evidence, and in fact there is no known geological process that can remove a continent from the face of the Earth in 200,000 years. However, neither have you shown that this is even a part of the origin myth you are seeking to explain. This entire line of investigation seems to me to taint your presentation with the same stain of wishful thinking and mysticism contrary to evidence that exists with all claims of a lost continent, Atlantis, Mu, or otherwise.

 

I do believe you are aware that demanding evidences to be extracted from a period of 200,000 years or more seemed to be quiet a colossal one. It would be understandable for your Scientific discipline to be rigidly demanding, that is if the situation would have been conveniently ranged from thousands or tens of thousand years, but to be equally rigid for such demand that spanned hundreds of thousands of years would definitely be too colossal stiffy to remain stubborn.

 

However this may not mean some hopeless dearth of evidences, it's just that perhaps we could beg for those very rare "crumbs" for whatever we could account from scratch after those hundreds of thousand years, but there were indeed some precious traces left, and suffice for it rather than demand just to appease some rendered impractical rigid standards because hey, beggars can't be choosers :unsure:

 

That said, I guess I may have found some crumbs after all, so refrain from the complain mode. Considering the concern of availability and time constraints (my clock reads beyond midnight already here), let me enumerate some "crumbs" for the meantime:

 

* Myths and legends of Indigenous Peoples and ancient civilizations

* Mayan Calendar

 

er, I guess the latter doesn't seem to be categorized as "crumb," guess it's more like jackpot cookie. These will further be discussed as we go along.

[belovelife]

are you aware of any texts in scroll or stone carving form, that have any of the symobols at the site?

 

 

 

:artgallery:

 

 

 

 

:snow:

 

 

 

 

 

[belovelife]

where did the smiley reading a book go?

[Moontanman]

It's difficult to believe that a thread that asserts such inane horse feathers has been allowed to continue on this forum. JMJones i see that you have done your best to point out how meaningless the "evidence" so far provided has been.

[rocket art]

are you aware of any texts in scroll or stone carving form, that have any of the symobols at the site?

 

 

 

:artgallery:

 

 

 

 

:snow:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm starting to believe your great great ancestor was once a cave painter :hihi:

 

They did discover some hieroglyphics:

 

http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_Yonaguni.htm

 

It is interesting to note that a number of tools have been discovered both on land and in the sea around the structures.

 

Close to the pyramid structure, what is thought to be the carving of a human head has been discovered (several feet tall), along with numerous unknown hieroglyphs.

 

The Japan Times reported the following story to add intrigue to the find

 

“In Okinawan folk-law, there are tales of traditional Gods , and a land of the Gods called Nirai Kanai, an unknown faraway land from where happiness is brought.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's difficult to believe that a thread that asserts such inane horse feathers has been allowed to continue on this forum. JMJones i see that you have done your best to point out how meaningless the "evidence" so far provided has been.

 

do try carving your own self-portrait wearing horsefeathers hundreds of feet underwater just like what was discovered in Yonaguni to prove that anybody can just make evidences as those,

 

 

If you can.

 

 

I'm not even finished yet with 2 and had been gathering crumbs of evidences riding a time machine traveling backward hundreds of thousands of years ago, so don't make any swift conclusions yet as if merely conveniently making comments how I fared riding a 360 deg. rollercoaster (which I liked anwyay). I suggest to diagnose such impatience you may for the meantime, finally spend time to ride the nasty rollercoaster you've been scared to do so all along, and make a difference in existence

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As er, prequel for these would perhaps take more time to discuss, I highly suggest to some individuals not to disregard the preserved myths and legends spanning through the ages that Humanity has been blessedly endowed with such priceless treasures, especially of the Indigenous Peoples, for to do so would betray closemindedness and mediocrity on their part. From what I had observed that I will soon be posting, it may even hold clues as to how the Asteroid Belt came about, and could provide hints as to the waterless Mars, and shed light as to those Sentient beings Admiral Rychard Byrd had encountered in post WW2 in which he finally revealed in his last moments on Earth, his profound experience as legacy to a Humanity entering the 21st Century and the Future, and despite attempt by the US government in otherwise keeping his diary top secret.

[Moontanman]

I'm starting to believe your great great ancestor was once a cave painter :hihi:

 

They did discover some hieroglyphics:

 

http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_Yonaguni.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

do try carving your own self-portrait wearing horsefeathers hundreds of feet underwater just like what was discovered in Yonaguni to prove that anybody can just make evidences as those,

 

 

If you can.

 

 

I'm not even finished yet with 2 and had been gathering crumbs of evidences riding a time machine traveling backward hundreds of thousands of years ago, so don't make any swift conclusions yet as if merely conveniently making comments how I fared riding a 360 deg. rollercoaster (which I liked anwyay). I suggest to diagnose such impatience you may for the meantime, finally spend time to ride the nasty rollercoaster you've been scared to do so all along, and make a difference in existence

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As er, prequel for these would perhaps take more time to discuss, I highly suggest to some individuals not to disregard the preserved myths and legends spanning through the ages that Humanity has been blessedly endowed with such priceless treasures, especially of the Indigenous Peoples, for to do so would betray closemindedness and mediocrity on their part. From what I had observed that I will soon be posting, it may even hold clues as to how the Asteroid Belt came about, and could provide hints as to the waterless Mars, and shed light as to those Sentient beings Admiral Rychard Byrd had encountered in post WW2 in which he finally revealed in his last moments on Earth, his profound experience as legacy to a Humanity entering the 21st Century and the Future, and despite attempt by the US government in otherwise keeping his diary top secret.

 

So far all you have done is spit into the wind, sadly as with many who are deeply into pseudoscience babble, spitting into the wind affirms their feelings of persecution because no one else really can see the reality they have built in their minds... I miss the old forum so much...

[JMJones0424]

I vacilate between disappointment, wonder, and apathy.

 

I am disappointed in my failure to sufficiently explain why it is that rocket art's posts in this thread cannot be viewed as anything other than fantasy. It is remarkable that the string of posts most pertinent to the problem were summarily dismissed as off-topic.

 

I wonder why it is that someone, while in the search for meaning and substance in their cultural heritage, would allow themselves to bastardize their history. It is true the Bagobo have been robbed of their cultural identity. It is true that theirs is a story that is all too common. It is true that the world would be better if their story was known. I fail to see what we gain then by trivializing their story into some bad piece of speculative fiction. Talk to elders. Read history. Explore the land from which their story drew its vitality. Understand what it was that the people were explaining in the stories they deemed important enough to pass down to their children and grandchildren. There is much that needs to be done, and few that are both willing and able to do it. Instead, all I see is evidence of someone who has latched onto pieces of random stories from the internet without a care for veracity or relevance, like a racoon clutching onto shiny baubles. And then the greatest injustice of all, those shiny bits of nonsense are pasted over the story in a thinly veiled attempt to make what was already a worthy subject appear more valuable to the rest of the world. It's the worst kind of cultural vandalism, like pasting bits of celebrity magazines over the Mona Lisa in order to give it more significance.

 

I am apathetic because this is a pattern that I have seen repeated many times. Some have a remarkable ability to ignore the world around them in favor of a fiction they create for themselves. It is their prerogative to do so, but it is neither imperative, nor even worthwhile, for those who care about accuracy to entertain their fantasy. I wish you well in your quest, but this is not history, and since you show no interest whatsoever in finding history, I could care less what nonsense you continue to write. All I ask is that you respect forum rules and write your fiction in a place that does not require evidence.

[rocket art]

May I suggest that in order to accommodate limitations as time and availability and to provide more systematic order to my thread, we may for the moment focus on evidence 2 as I have been in the process of gathering evidences to prove my position. The others may be discussed later as we progress provided evidence 2 will be thoroughly tackled upon. However, being its proponent I may provide glimpses of my views on the other evidence issues time and again, but I advice to refrain from leapfrogging discussions to it, and to generally focus instead on the issue of evidence 2 for the meantime until we arrive in mutual agreement to proceed to the next level.

 

 

However before we proceed, I really need to post reply to this statement:

 

The myth as told by the Spanish that named the area has its beginning in the Muslim invasion of the city of Marida, Spain, in 1150. Seven bishops fled the city with the church's riches and sailed west to escape the Moors. Each bishop was said to have founded a city which grew in wealth, however, as myths often do, there was never any attempt to give the location of these seven cities.

 

Fast forward now to the Spanish conquest of the New World. Álvar Núñez Cabeza de Vaca, one of only 4 surviving members of the Narváez expedition to colonize Florida, recounts tails of riches and claims to have found evidence of the lost seven cities. His tale is truly amazing, but only important to this story in that he helped fuel the rumors of further riches in the American southwest.

 

Flush from looting the Aztecs, and in search of more gold, the viceroy sent Fra Marcos de Niza to find the lost cities. He took with him Estevanico, a slave and another survivor of the Narváez expedition, and two others. They turned back after illness struck the group, but in the distance, they had spotted a vast pueblo settlement and when they returned to Mexico City, they claimed to have found the first of the lost cities in the district the Spanish had named Cibola. The next year, Coronado set out on his famous mission to find the seven cities, and Marcos de Niza was disgraced when all they found were two pueblo cities.

 

recalling back in history, be reminded that such western myth had surfaced during the crucial chapter in European history, The Crusades that occurred 11th - 13th century. It was in these era that the West wallowing in the Dark Ages had finally glimpsed a window to the East, and were definitely amazed by it as they saw wares of intricate craftmanship, knowledge and stories that revealed of advanced civilizations from the East.

 

(In fact it was in such era of interaction between East and West that inspired the West slumbering from its Dark age, and opened up to more knowledge that eventually paved the way for the Western Renaissance.)

 

 

It will not be surprising that such western myth may have actually been inspired by the original story from the East, a mere copycat version of the grandeur of the original that during those times, such knowledge have been well known from among the ancient peoples unlike the systematic suppression of it through the years as evidenced by the supposed modern mainstream society being unaware of the original story.

 

A glimpse as to the backwardness of Europe during the Dark Ages in stark contrast to the more advanced civilizations of the East during that time, including those of Moorish Spain, was narrated by a Moorish doctor. Upon his travel to Medieval Western Europe as a doctor where his scientific skills benefited some of its residents, he was challenged by a group of monks who accused him of sorcery and that such practice are "workings of the devil." To prove the Moorish pagan wrong and to demonstrate their conviction that such sickness were indeed caused by evil spirits and not by paganistic hoolabaloo, they demonstrated their divine skills by boring a hole through the screaming patient's head and thus 'exorcising' the evil spirits, declared the patient healed. Of course chances are it resulted to the untimely demise of the poor patient. :(

[rocket art]

I vacilate between disappointment, wonder, and apathy.

 

I am disappointed in my failure to sufficiently explain why it is that rocket art's posts in this thread cannot be viewed as anything other than fantasy. It is remarkable that the string of posts most pertinent to the problem were summarily dismissed as off-topic.

 

I wonder why it is that someone, while in the search for meaning and substance in their cultural heritage, would allow themselves to bastardize their history. It is true the Bagobo have been robbed of their cultural identity. It is true that theirs is a story that is all too common. It is true that the world would be better if their story was known. I fail to see what we gain then by trivializing their story into some bad piece of speculative fiction. Talk to elders. Read history. Explore the land from which their story drew its vitality. Understand what it was that the people were explaining in the stories they deemed important enough to pass down to their children and grandchildren. There is much that needs to be done, and few that are both willing and able to do it. Instead, all I see is evidence of someone who has latched onto pieces of random stories from the internet without a care for veracity or relevance, like a racoon clutching onto shiny baubles. And then the greatest injustice of all, those shiny bits of nonsense are pasted over the story in a thinly veiled attempt to make what was already a worthy subject appear more valuable to the rest of the world. It's the worst kind of cultural vandalism, like pasting bits of celebrity magazines over the Mona Lisa in order to give it more significance.

 

I am apathetic because this is a pattern that I have seen repeated many times. Some have a remarkable ability to ignore the world around them in favor of a fiction they create for themselves. It is their prerogative to do so, but it is neither imperative, nor even worthwhile, for those who care about accuracy to entertain their fantasy. I wish you well in your quest, but this is not history, and since you show no interest whatsoever in finding history, I could care less what nonsense you continue to write. All I ask is that you respect forum rules and write your fiction in a place that does not require evidence.

 

 

how come you have been ranting when I had not even started yet? Why such premature mode of reaction?

 

 

It will be by vindication of an ancient knowledge from the east, and had even limited my position according to a phrase, and not a bastardizing as you had unfairly accused. Surely Humanity's history knowledge cannot be a monopoly according to western paradigms only. What an uncalled for reaction indeed.

 

I am even now in the process of posting data that will reveal that most the geological structure of the Philippines had actually manifested the earlier Cenozoic era, actually relative to the era of "Tribal Consciousness" as recorded in the Mayan Calendar whose importance to an intrigued and concerned Humanity is now revealing itself right at this very moment that you should not dare suppress, deny or ignore.

 

To prove my position relative to evidence 2 that you posted here is the map that showed geological areas in the archipelago, particularly in the area around Mt. Apo that actually revealed Tertiary -Volcanic formations of the area and that is belonged to the Cenozoic era, a time frame relative to the discussion in this thread, and will reveal that indeed the Philippine archipelago was borne of a more recent formation (Cenozoic -Quaternary/Tertiary), particularly volcanic in origin which will further solidify my position that it was formed out of Subduction relative to the discussion of the thread.

 

 

http://kalibo.tukcedo.nl/geol_minerals.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is now the Information Age where the repository of Human Knowledge are now in our possession as necessary for a Humanity getting more and more aware entering the challenges of the 21st Century, you are cordially to be reminded.

 

No need for anybody to act as surprised as a 20th century human wearing bell-bottom pants in a 70's era would . These are only the beginning, and there will be more, and more still to prove it. Such reactions are unbecoming and premature, so kindly refrain from it.

[rocket art]

(Exhibit for evidence 2)

 

This image will come in handy in this thread:

 

 

and this:

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

 

http://dinosaurs.wikia.com/index.php?title=Geologic_time_scale&image=Geological-time-scale-jpg

 

 

 

the visual impact in support of my position, the discussion relative to Tribal era will be basing on the more recent Cenozoic Perod (Quarternary/Tertiary) as portrayed above.

[rocket art]

(Exhibit for evidence 2)

 

 

 

 

 

Volcanic islands and land formations created by Subduction. The presently known Philippines with 7,107 archipelago islands, particularly in Mt. Apo, Davao, Mindanao relative to discussion in this thread, are mostly borne from volcanic origin.

[belovelife]

moontanman, do you have the link i sent you a few years ago about the nano-fabrication process that i enciisioned, and the japanes utility of it?