Higher Math And Hunter-Gatherers

[SaxonViolence]

This is as much an Anthropological Question as much as a Mathematical One--But Mathematicians are probably better equipped to do Anthropology than the Converse.

 

Could People forced--for whatever reason--to revert to living as Hunter-Gatherers, maintain a Complex and Growing Higher Mathematics, passed along purely by word of Mouth, with perhaps the frequent use of diagrams in the sand, or written with a Piece of Charred Wood on a Stretched hide--for the Instruction of the Young?

 

Never mind how likely it is--could it be done?

 

A few precious books might--with extra special care, last a generation, even two.

 

Pre-Literate People have Phantastic Memories, but it might take a Generation or Two to get the Old Memorizing Skills up to Full-Power.

 

Why?

 

Because a group of People, contemplating a total collapse of Technological Civilization, decided that Higher Math was one of the things that they hated to lose the most--and which they were determined to Preserve if at all Possible.

 

Right at the Beginning--You can't save all the Mathematics going on in the World as it is today, with a band of fifty Adult Males.

 

Prune. Try to come up with a manageable number of Specialized Topics, hopefully things best suited to be passed along Orally, and even improved upon; Things interesting for their own sake; and once again, things that would hopefully give Man a big head start Mathematically, if there is ever a time that Universities are reestablished.

 

Say our tribe Survives and Prospers. Young Boys are taught Mathematics every day of their lives, once they're old enough to understand Human Speech.

 

They are taught to Knap Flint, Make Spears and Bows and Arrows, make Ropes and Nets, taught to Track, Trail and Stalk, How to Fight--both Hand-to-Hand, and with what primitive weapons they maintain.....

 

But one of the tests every Boy has to pass, to become an Official Adult--to be eligible to choose a Wife and Mate--is to demonstrate a thorough Grounding in the Tribe's Mathematics, and to have discovered a new theorem--no matter how tiny or specialized, and to defend it in Tribal Council--in which case, it gets added to the Oral History.

 

Lets even say that our small tribe prospers, and divides and subdivides over the Generations. Some Tribes might specialize in Number Theory, others in Analytic Geometry, Topology, Set Theory--Whatever.

 

Well anyway, who thinks that it is conceivable?

 

Saxon Violence

[maddog]

This is as much an Anthropological Question as much as a Mathematical One--But Mathematicians are probably better equipped to do Anthropology than the Converse.

Could People forced--for whatever reason--to revert to living as Hunter-Gatherers, maintain a Complex and Growing Higher Mathematics, passed along purely by word of Mouth, with perhaps the frequent use of diagrams in the sand, or written with a Piece of Charred Wood on a Stretched hide--for the Instruction of the Young?

... Well anyway, who thinks that it is conceivable?

Saxon Violence

Some prerequisites I think are in order.

1. [in whatever form] the ability to write a "common" language of words and thoughts.

2. If these people at one time knew that mathematics subject to be passed on/preserved.

3. Some minimum tomes of knowledge of higher mathematics {abstract algebra, differential geometry, topology, etc}

were save and kept safe and these tome could be read by the people in the tribe.

Then I think this knowledge of mathematics could be passed on to future generations.

 

What I don't understand is Why either. Are talking an "end of the world" scenario ?

 

maddog

[Qfwfq]

Your reasoning is highly axiomatic, just like mathematics.

 

A hunter-gatherer society would not value a culture that only a few of them are capable of understanding. I your scenario the first generation or two would get the point of it but not much after that; it would truly have to become part of the tribe's religion, with the mathematicians being the priests/monks. But alas, a hunter gathering society can't much afford to have such figures, these became a feature of agrarian societies. The Hadza have apothecarians because everybody appreciates someone knowing how to relieve ailments. Heck, tribes of chimps do too, but it's a simpler and more shared knowledge.

 

Maintaining a commnity of mathematicians without monasteries would require communication infrastructure wich such societies don't otherwise need. These societies typically don't even develop writing. They tend to have oral traditions that members value highly, but these are something the average Og can fully understand. Try getting the whole lot of them to see the point of the Riemann conjecture, they would just smile at you with a pat on the back and say, uhm, I s'pose so but we maybe discuss it anudda time.

[SaxonViolence]

As I've said in other posts--but every one may not have read each and everyone of my posts.....

 

 

I do write Science Fiction and Phantasy Stories--many of them Post Apocalyptic.....

 

And I just wondered how possible/probable that it was that at some point a Technological and very Ethnocentric Culture might meet up with a Bunch of Raggedy Hunter Gatherers who had a better grasp of the Highest, Purest and best form of Human Culture.

 

Remember, these folks are ruthless in their own way. You either attain your Oral-Tradition "PHD", or you don't get to marry and pass your inferior "Right-Brain Heavy" Thinking Genes (To whatever degree such things are hereditary) on to the next Generation.

 

HMMMmmnn.....?

 

Lets have them specialize in Euclidean Style Geometry--Taught in the Good Left Brain Tradition of justifying each step by reference to either a Fundamental Axiom, Definition, or Previously Proven Theorem.

 

{Where Modern Mathematicians came up with the Rather Lame, Right-Brained Notion; that simply solving equations was a "Formal Proof".....??.?? I do not Know.}

 

Presumably, every Man in the Tribe is expected to be a competent and enthusiastic Mathematician. For these people, Math largely replaces Art, Music and Oral Histories of the Tribe.

 

Whatever else a Man is doing--Picking Berries, Stalking a Deer or Wild Boar, Practicing Martial Arts--or whatever--Mathematics is always simmering on the back burner.

 

Well I asked--and y'all are probably right.....

 

Still, its fun to think about--for me anyway.

 

PS--Did y'all ever see the Movie "Roots"? Later there was a lot of controversy about how much was researched and how simply Fabricated--but be that as it may.

 

Do you remember the old Village Elder who carried Whole Encyclopedia's worth of Genealogies and Tribal History around in his head....

 

Couldn't the same Mania for Memorization have been applied to more worthy Topics?

 

Saxon Violence

[belovelife]

i think its possible

 

soh

 

cah

 

toa