My theory on human understanding

[IMAMONKEY!]

I believe i have explained this before, but it was i nthe wrong thread so ill explain it again and see what you guys think of this little thought i thunk. :(

 

I believe that every intelligent species goes through what are called: sophistication phases.

 

sophistication phases are ways of thinking and understanding the world around us. The only problem with these phases is they are a oneway road. Imagine a match. In that match is an alternate universe of match people that come into existence when the match is struck. Their universe is governed by physical laws that do not apply to our universe. Hence if a flame person was to pop out and try to explain how its universe worked we would not be able to comprehend it because we have not been there, have not seen it, and cannot study or understand the terms that the match person will use.

 

In essence, the only way to understand his universe is to learn everything he knows, which is strictly impossible. Again ill make the anology of taking a toaster back to some time in human history before the 1300s and screaming out: Hey! who's got a bagel?!?!? Theyd kill you... Burn you at the stake.. whatever you want to call it, theyd do it because a toaster is not compatible with their way of thinking. Again... if you were to go back to a time where people were still figuring out what everything did, and then said to them, this doohickey is called a fire. It burns by reacting with the air to release energy in the form of heat and light... Theyd club you. :sun:

 

Now.. so far we have discovered and mastered 3 sophistication phases. We went from a phase where we were figuring out why we eat lunch... then we tried to figure out how eating worked. Then we started deciding where to eat lunch! I think we are on the verge of another phase change :( Of course i cant tell you what it will be, and noone in the world will be able to until it happens. Again i would like to state that this is just a theory, and since phases seem to be a one way road in this topic, i dont think it is likely anyone will be able to predict the next phase of sophistication.

 

Oh... way past bed time.. see you guys later!

 

Your friendly neighborhood Spiderman.. I mean... Superman... I mean IMAMONKEY! ;) :hyper:

[Queso]

hmmmmmm

[Smokinjoe9]

Imagine a match. In that match is an alternate universe of match people that come into existence when the match is struck. Their universe is governed by physical laws that do not apply to our universe. Hence if a flame person was to pop out and try to explain how its universe worked we would not be able to comprehend it because we have not been there, have not seen it, and cannot study or understand the terms that the match person will use.

 

I like the match person analogy, although, we could never return to his universe because his only lasts a few seconds of our time and what would happen to us when his universe dies. I am guessing when another match is struck a new universe is created. Sorry for the odd post I will never look at a match the same again.

[Tormod]

I believe that every intelligent species goes through what are called: sophistication phases.

 

What do you base your idea on? What observations have you made which made you come to your conclusion? What sort of predictions can you make?

[IMAMONKEY!]

:( well.... erm... i can't really... erm... make any predictions. Thats part of the theory. I will never know what the next phase will be because it is strictly imposssible for that to happen. Its a one way road and cant be predicted or talked of until we get there... It is kind of depressing but i think we are on the verge of a great phase change which will change humanity forever. I have never believed in psychic ability or anything like that, so this may sound strange coming from me, but i feel an aura about everyone.

 

It almost feels like an aura of impending doom, but not quite. It is more like an aura of... of... change. Like something big is about to happen to the human race. And in some way i almost feel a part of it, even though i find it highly unlikely a 13 year old will be a part of anything big in the world. :(

 

A for observations, there were none. :( it's really just logic which made me come to this conclusion. I cant really tell you anything more of this subject because there really isnt more. This is all we have and will have until the next sophistication phase change.

 

Cheers,

IMAMONKEY! (oooahahahahahaaaaahh!!!) :(

[IMAMONKEY!]

I like the match person analogy, although, we could never return to his universe because his only lasts a few seconds of our time and what would happen to us when his universe dies. I am guessing when another match is struck a new universe is created. Sorry for the odd post I will never look at a match the same again.

 

Thats a good guess, but i think that what happens is that the universe is not created, but it begins. I think that is how our universe was. It wasn't created. It always was, it just hadn't begun... its hard to explain... If you've read all of my posts you'll see i have a theory of how the entire universe works that doesn't contradict itself. Or at least, not that ive noticed... :( ...at the moment, i am thankful you liked the anology :( i am good at those. :(

 

IMAMONKEY!

[SkyHigh]

Hence if a flame person was to pop out and try to explain how its universe worked we would not be able to comprehend it because we have not been there, have not seen it, and cannot study or understand the terms that the match person will use.

 

During one of the sophistication stages, do the flame people become aware that sophistication phases exist? Surely that would make them more receptive to the ideas that there are other universes?

 

You may well get clubbed by 99% of early humans for demonstrating fire, but not by the other 1%, i.e. the ones that sit quietly sitting in the conrer of their caves rubbing sticks together, knowing they're on to something . . .

 

That would be like turning up at Da Vinci's place in a Eurofighter - he would have understood it

[Panjandrum]

I think you give our anscestors insuffiecient credit. While there are certainly some times and places where it would be unwise to demonstrate advanced technology, in most instances I think our primative forebears would understand what you were on about.

 

A caveman might not understand thermodynamics, if you took the time to explain the process of combustion to him I doubt hed simply refuse to believe you. Similarly, a medieval person might have no understanding of how a toaster works, but theyd have no trouble accepting it and making use of it. Its just a tiny oven for cooking bread, after all, both concepts they would be familar with.

 

These 'phases' you speak of are a figment, a product of our concept of technological progress, an idea any medieval person, with thier belief in a teleological history, would readily understand. Or are you suggesting that if we were to kidnap a caveman baby and raise it as a modern, it would be incapable of understanding concepts belonging to a 'higher' phase?

[IMAMONKEY!]

I think you give our anscestors insuffiecient credit. While there are certainly some times and places where it would be unwise to demonstrate advanced technology, in most instances I think our primative forebears would understand what you were on about.

 

A caveman might not understand thermodynamics, if you took the time to explain the process of combustion to him I doubt hed simply refuse to believe you. Similarly, a medieval person might have no understanding of how a toaster works, but theyd have no trouble accepting it and making use of it. Its just a tiny oven for cooking bread, after all, both concepts they would be familar with.

 

These 'phases' you speak of are a figment, a product of our concept of technological progress, an idea any medieval person, with thier belief in a teleological history, would readily understand. Or are you suggesting that if we were to kidnap a caveman baby and raise it as a modern, it would be incapable of understanding concepts belonging to a 'higher' phase?

 

hey all... its been... well.. 4 months since i last visited here! man... im 15 now... so i guess ill start by answering this. its been a while so its hard to recall what i was thinking.. lets read it... hmmm ok... i was a little bad with wording this and my anologies though cute stunk... so...

 

What i meant was... back in the day... 10,00 B.C. or so when you were all a bunch of young wippersnappers :lol: There were no sophistication phases. Then someone wondered.. how does WHy does this work? then they tried to figure out how to reenact such an event and finnaly where. NOw i would think the next logical step would be When, but i guess that is another step to add to the 3.

 

Think of it in terms of lunch. Your first thought is... why do i eat lunch? i am hungry. HOw do i eat lunch? i Open my mouth and swallow. Where should i eat lunch? Mcdonalds. And then... when should i eat lunch? 1:00 P.M.

 

Thus we have the three sophistication phases. We went from animals that didnt care WHY we killed to cavemen that killed for a reason and then a great thinker who wondered HOW to make the stuff more edible and a humans who thought WHERE to eat their meals and then civilized farmers : rednecks like me :phones: who thought WHEN to eat our meals.

 

WHY, HOW, WHERE, and WHEN...

Length, width, distance, time...

bread, butter, jelly, bread...

 

face it. we live in a four dimensional world lol:eek2:

[arkain101]

I am a monkey, you are on to something. In my opinion you are on to the concept of evolution.

 

Humans have been evolving extremely fast compared to other life on the planet. Both physically and mentally. These stages or phases you have contimplated are era's of evolution. Our knowledge evolves, and causes our consciousness, and mind to evolve.

 

We have as you say gone from being controlled by our enviorment, to learning to manipulate it to ease our survival and create our own bit of freedom. Where we can stop thinking of where to migrate next, grow some crops and start thinking about other things, then we began to learn about our enviroment to see how it works physically leading us to manipulate nature and our enviroment to work for us, so we can stop thinking about the crops and the food and the weather and create opportunity to wrap our minds around the next stage.

 

I would predict that eventually we will understand where we came from why we are here, since this is quite the peak and climax we have arrived at. No longer do we need to occupy our minds with labour when we can have almost everything automated for us, what is the next stage.? It seems we have gone from Life that survives in its realm, on and on to the point where its realm works for it to make it survive. Each stage along the way opened up time and opportunity for our minds to think about other things. Soon enough many of us will have the physical world mastered for us so we have a new stage of opportunity to set our minds to, which I think has much to do with the invisible world, the quatum world and the making of the universe. Our consciousness will expand beyond where it needs to be concirned with very much of physical things and will evolve into the physical things that are invisible to us. (only in the sense of course for the generalization of humanity of those who progress the evolution. I am not saying all of us will forget about the physical but there will always be the ones who break the ice and do).

I do think you are right, Once humanity can have its enviroment work for it in all ways, it will begin thinking of what? I suppose a new enviroment.. less focus on physical and more mental.

[IMAMONKEY!]

my point worded perfectly. Bravo. i sincerely commend you for rephrasing my thoughts into something we all can understand. Thanks. I mean really. im not being sarcastic. That actually helped a lot.

[coberst]

I have for some time been interested in trying to understand what ‘understand’ means. I have reached the conclusion that ‘curiosity then caring’ is the first steps toward understanding. Without curiosity we care for nothing. Once curiosity is in place then caring becomes necessary for understanding.

 

Often I discover that the person involved in organizing some action is a person who has had a personal experience leading her to this action. Some person who has a family member afflicted by a disease becomes very active in helping support research in that disease, for example.

 

I suspect our first experience with ‘understanding’ may be our first friendship. I think that this first friendship may be an example of what Carl Sagan meant by “Understanding is a kind of ecstasy”.

 

I also suspect that the boy who falls in love with automobiles and learns everything he can about repairing the junk car he bought has discovered ‘understanding’.

 

I suspect many people go their complete life and never have an intellectual experience that culminates in the “ecstasy of understanding”. How can this be true? I think that our educational system is designed primarily for filling heads with knowledge and hasn’t time to waste on ‘understanding’.

 

Understanding an intellectual matter must come in the adult years if it is to ever come to many of us. I think that it is very important for an adult to find something intellectual that will excite his or her curiosity and concern sufficiently so as to motivate the effort necessary to understand.

 

Understanding does not come easily but it can be “a kind of ecstasy”.

 

 

 

I think of understanding as being a creation of meaning by the thinker. As one attempts to understand something that person will construct through imagination a model--like a papier mache--of the meaning. Like an artist painting her understanding of something. As time goes by the model takes on what the person understands about that which is studied. The model is very subjective and you and I may study something for some time and we both have learned to understand it but if it were possible to project an image of our model they would be unidentifiable perhaps by the other. Knowledge has a universal quality but not understanding.

[arkain101]

Nicely put..

 

To understand you have to have become able to know. To become able to know you have to take a belief and experience it.

 

I think we understand alot of things, but not nearly enough in most cases.

 

We have all been told as a child a certain type of food is good by say a parent or relative. We dont understand why it is good, nor do we know for ourself if it is. We can believe what they tell us. Then when we experience the food for ourself, we may understand what they meant when we feel the flavour senses and textures and etc. If we too decide it is good our belief of the food will come be a knowing that it is good. Then we understand the concept that, this certain food is good. This example is although relative to personality and choice on flavours...

 

Although in life we do fill with a bunch of stuff people tell us and we have to beleive it in order to make it seem right in our heads so we will use it. Although we dont often apply it in a real example where we can make use of it and come to know it is true and works, then finally understand what this knowledge is for.

[coberst]

Comprehension is a hierarchy, resembling a pyramid, with awareness at the base followed by consciousness, succeeded by knowing, with understanding at the pinnacle.

 

Awareness--faces in a crowd.

 

Consciousness—smile, a handshake, and curiosity.

 

Knowledge—long talks sharing desires and ambitions.

 

Understanding—a best friend bringing constant April.

 

 

I am a retired engineer and my experience in the natural sciences leads me to conclude that these natural sciences are far more concerned with knowing than with understanding.

 

Understanding is a long step beyond knowing and most often knowing provides the results that technology demands. Technology, I think, does not want understanding because understanding is inefficient and generally not required. The natural scientist, with their paradigms, are puzzle solvers. Puzzles require ingenuity but seldom understanding.