Language and Thought

[Fishteacher73]

A crow is a bird. Not all birds are crows..

 

Birds are in the clas Aves with ~9000 species. Speaking about "bird communication" is about as descriptive as "mamalian communication" . The class is diverse and has highly intelligent species and some that are about like rocks. Bird calls depend on species. Some are learned (such as a parot) and some are genetic. Other are specificaly learned and repeated in exacting sequence in mating/territorial issues. Others are just random garble.

 

Just because a human says moo does not mean cows can talk.

[bumab]

Interesting, I notice you did say dialects though which to me is kind of like a southern draw versus that northern twang, both still being american english. I wonder if there are lower animal species though that have the equivalent of totally different languages like we do, like english versus chinese, to the extent that two distant animals of the same species do not understand the meaning of each others sounds.

 

I did say dialects, and as far as I know, they are simply variations on the same language. Orca's do understand each other, and at a more sophistacted level then simple tonal variations, despite different dialects.

 

I'd imagine there are different languages in the same species, since dialects ar ethe mechanism by which languages diverge, so one would imagine the same thing could happen in the animal kingdom.

[Fishteacher73]

Humans can use non-verbal symbolic language to communicate. We have some generally understandable gestures that I feel are pretty univerasal in their interpretation. Mime eating something or going to the bahroom and you'l be pointed in the right direction anywhere. Incorporate tools or props and most non-abstract ideas can be conveyed w/o any language.

[Qfwfq]

I knew I'd miss a lot over the weekend.

 

IMV, culture influences language very much, language reflects culture. Language is what a people use to perpetrate a culture. If you've never seen a Jabberwock or a slithy tove, nor thought of anything of the likes, you don't need a symbol for them and hence you have no need for such words in your language.

 

If you want to think about a Jabberwock, it's handy to have a symbol for it. It's even more essential when you want to communicate thoughts about a Jabberwock to others.

[bumab]

Do you think it goes the other way? Does language influence culture in your opinion, Q?

 

A test would be if you could predict characteristics of language speakers being raised in different cultures, based solely on their language and vocab, I suppose. I wonder if that test has ever been done?

[Qfwfq]

Does the chicken come before the egg, or vice versa?

 

In a sense, it's definitely the egg that comes first. At the same time one couldn't deny there must be a chicken to lay the egg.

 

:shrug:

[Queso]

Does the chicken come before the egg, or vice versa?

 

In a sense, it's definitely the egg that comes first. At the same time one couldn't deny there must be a chicken to lay the egg.

 

well when did a chicken become a chicken in the history of evolution? this question is so flawed! !

[Qfwfq]

The single egg turns into the chicken, they are as much the same as the chicken is itself at different times. The chicken that layed the egg isn't the same chicken. However any egg couldn't have just appeared, without a previous chicken.

 

Language is a product of culture, it's also obvious that language influences culture at least to some extent.

[Fishteacher73]

Does the chicken come before the egg, or vice versa?

 

In a sense, it's definitely the egg that comes first. At the same time one couldn't deny there must be a chicken to lay the egg.

 

:o

 

Stictly biologically speaking....The egg has to come first. Adaptation and evolution can only occur between generations. A living non-chicken could not become a chicken. But theough mutation, a non-chicken can lay a chicken egg.

Ergo, the egg cam first.

:shrug:

[infamous]

Stictly biologically speaking....The egg has to come first. Adaptation and evolution can only occur between generations. A living non-chicken could not become a chicken. But theough mutation, a non-chicken can lay a chicken egg.

Ergo, the egg cam first.

:shrug:

Excellent point Fish, boy can you imagine the mothers dismay when she for the first time looks upon her hatchling mutant??

[Qfwfq]

I agree the egg comes first but I wouldn't say:

But theough mutation, a non-chicken can lay a chicken egg.

because a new species doesn't come about in a generation! :naughty: