How can telepathy be possible in perspective of science?

[Kirk Gregory Czuhai]

Each Christian is part of One body.

if you are only superstitious you will believe in intuition.

[Turtle]

___Kirk, you're going to have to do better than that in tying your post to the others. They are working toward establishing a seperate religious forum here otherwise. I realize some of my claims are as superstitious as yours, but I try & provide some backup, experiment, or personal experience to substantiate them. ;)

___C1ay, on the wavelength business, the longer the wave, the lower the frequency and the farther it can travel with less energy. Since meditative states give brainwave frequencies roughly in the 2 to 7 HZ range, the 80 Watts mentioned seems more substantial. Add to that the modulation idea, an intnetional meditative sender, an intentional meditative receiver, & you have a telepathic system.

[C1ay]

C1ay, on the wavelength business, the longer the wave, the lower the frequency and the farther it can travel with less energy. Since meditative states give brainwave frequencies roughly in the 2 to 7 HZ range, the 80 Watts mentioned seems more substantial. Add to that the modulation idea, an intnetional meditative sender, an intentional meditative receiver, & you have a telepathic system.

The required antenna, even at a quarter wavelength, for a 2 hz transmission is 37,474 kilometers and for 7 hz it's 10,706 kilometers. IMO, this ain't gonna get it.

 

P.S.

The same antenna size would be needed to receive the signal...

[Turtle]

___I was hoping C1ay you would do the math; I have to look up the pertinent formulae for frequency/ wavelength stuff & my books are packed. May I impose on you another calculation? How many neurons end-to-end required to make up the antenna lengths you calculated? In other words, are there sufficient neurons to form a loop antenna?

___You are quite right I believe in assuming 1/4 wave, & I believe a 1/4 wave acoustic wave guide (organ pipes among other examples) has similar utility. I have seen some very interesting work with acoustic "bottles" in the last few years, which have the effect of amplifying sound with no mechansism other than the bottle's shape. I don't know if analogous equipment is in use for EM waves; while cavity magnetron uses physical shape to focus microwave, it requires considerable power. ;) ;)

[Qfwfq]

But...

 

Sez hu that you need more power at higher frequencies? ;)

 

High frequencies can be more easily focused and microvaves are used for telecom purposes at quite small powers. Even without directionality, how powerful is a cell phone's tx?

[C1ay]

How many neurons end-to-end required to make up the antenna lengths you calculated? In other words, are there sufficient neurons to form a loop antenna?

It wouldn't matter. The diameter of that loop will still need to be a quarter wavelength at 10,000 to 40,000 kilometers. The only way to shorten the antenna for these frquencies and maintain the efficiency of the antenna is to use an inductor to make a short antenna behave like a longer one.

[C1ay]

But...

 

Sez hu that you need more power at higher frequencies? ;)

 

High frequencies can be more easily focused and microvaves are used for telecom purposes at quite small powers. Even without directionality, how powerful is a cell phone's tx?

High frequencies require more power to penetrate than lower frequencies. That's why submarines use low frequencies, high frequencies go nowhere in the water. It would be the same with penetrating the skull. For a given power a low frequency would penetrate better and travel farther than a highre frequency or, for a signal to travel the same distance a higher frequency would require more power.

 

Cell phones work on the order of around 3 to 5 watts in the 900 mhz region which is OK thru open air. It might actually be enough to penetrate the skull, travel the gap to someone standing next to you, penetrate their skull and activate their antenna if you both had antennae for that frequency. :)

[Qfwfq]

It might actually be enough to penetrate the skull

To the point that some people worry quite a bit about it! There's less water in the skull than in most other body tissues, I don't see why you find the skull to be the most probable obstacle.

[C1ay]

To the point that some people woory quite a bit about it! There's less water in the skull than in most other body tissues, I don't see why you find the skull to be the most probable obstacle.

SOrry. I didn't mean it was the most probable obstacle, just a noticeable obstacle.

[Queso]

Each Christian is part of One body.

if you are only superstitious you will believe in intuition.

 

each christian has a body. they belong to a religion, which is not a body. sure maybe that means you believe in intuition, but that doesn't really have to do with anything.

[Turtle]

___Back on the neuron antenna a bit as I still have some ignorance. First C1ay, you didn't discount the idea except on the basis of loop diameter; so in principle, do you think a neuron antenna is possible at any (some) frequency?

___Also, do you think our brain (or some other body structure) can operate as an inductor? :)

[C1ay]

___Back on the neuron antenna a bit as I still have some ignorance. First C1ay, you didn't discount the idea except on the basis of loop diameter; so in principle, do you think a neuron antenna is possible at any (some) frequency?

___Also, do you think our brain (or some other body structure) can operate as an inductor? :friday:

I don't know enough about the brain or any damage that could be caused to answer you first question. I tend to think not. I also don't believe any part of the brain or any other body part could operate as an inductor. Our body's are so conductive internally that adjacent coils would short circuit.

[Turtle]

___Perhaps not; each individual cell has its own electrical business going on inside & as most have direct contact with other cells & don't short circuit, it is not unreasonable to expect a larger structure composed of cells would not short circuit either.

___As the shape of the cavity magnetron focuses microwaves, may not the shape of the brains convolutions also focus some frequency?

[C1ay]

___Perhaps not; each individual cell has its own electrical business going on inside & as most have direct contact with other cells & don't short circuit, it is not unreasonable to expect a larger structure composed of cells would not short circuit either.

IIRC the only part of our body with any electrical resistance is our skin. Everything internal has enough salt to be highly conductive.

___As the shape of the cavity magnetron focuses microwaves, may not the shape of the brains convolutions also focus some frequency?

Picking a number out of thin air just say those convolutions are 1". That would translate to a frequency around 11.8Ghz. An 11.8Ghz satellite signal in the Ku band will not hardly penetrate a leaf on a tree at 9 watts of power. I tend to think it would have a hard time getting out of one person's head and into another.

[Turtle]

___Excellant! Now maybe as we have progressed, it's time to stand on our heads. Figuratively and/or literally. I mean to say let's work the problem in reverse;pick a frequency/power range C1ay you think is up to the task & then look for the appropriate structure.

___I note you qualified with "I hardly think" & so we still have some footing. In addition, I point out that a cavity magnetron from a microwave is only about 1" in diameter and maybe 3" long, and that from a 750Watt oven. Yet further, before the cavity magnetron's invention, microwaves were generated by large Klystron tubes many feet long in some cases. The point is, the brain may yet harbor structures undiscovered analagous to the variable microwave producing forms. :friday:

[C1ay]

The point is, the brain may yet harbor structures undiscovered analagous to the variable microwave producing forms. :friday:

Ahh, but there is a significant drawback to microwave frequencies in that they are readily absorbed by water. This is exactly the way microwave ovens work. You could really work up a fever with this approach....

[Turtle]

___I do not mean to use microwaves, rather I meant to draw the analogy of form (shape)affecting EM radiation. While I still think quantum flucuations or folded string dimensions may account for telepathy, we hardly have the opportunity to experiment yet.

___I also note the sixth sense as a possible telepathic manifestation. I've seen several studies of this wherin the process involves staring at someone who can't see you. Lot's of argument still it seems even on those with seemingly positive (affirm telepathy) results. :friday: