Science Cannot Replace Religion

[Antti]

Science Cannot Replace Religion

 

Science finds out how nature operates and then gives names to new issues and phenomena. Science specifies new natural laws through experimental work and using chains of evidence. Earlier proven issues and methods are always used as the primary evidence for new ones because effects cannot exist without causes. If we have the courage to pursue this chain of evidence to the very end and meet the original cause, then we will always end up with God; i.e., we will find the primary reason, which has no cause. Atheists try to wriggle out from this logical problem by inventing some name for this primary reason, such as the Big Bang.

 

All matter, energy, life and spirit was compressed into a space smaller than a pinhead 14 billion years ago, according to the current official scientific belief. Scientific facts may, however, change because we still know less than one percent of the existing natural laws and matters. Today we know at least 100 times more scientific facts and data than some 100 years ago, and this trend will continue at exponential speed. However, our wisdom will not increase at the same rate unless we have the courage to re-evaluate old scientific and religious assumptions. Science changes and improves our understanding of the universe all the time; however, we will always find God at the end of every scientific footpath, now and forever.

 

Beauty, wisdom, justice, love and faith cannot be measured with a gauge, nor with any physical or chemical instrument. They do not react with matter or energy, but they still are as real as granite because the human spirit makes them visible. Consequently, we are pure spiritual beings, who have been temporarily locked into our bodies. We notice this spirit when we meet our friend’s eyes and listen to his opinions; this is not the voice of the material.

 

Different Domains

 

Science does not speak out about the questions that are of fundamental importance for the human spirit, namely, right and wrong. It is religion that finds the answers to these questions. Real science bravely finds out which material issues are true and which are false. Using science, we may improve the welfare of our bodies. Real religion finds out the spiritual issues which are true and which make our soul happy. These positive and permanent effects may be used to identify true science and true religion from the false and the fake.

 

With real and honest information, we can fight against those cults, clans, black magic, voodoo and other mind control groups, which hypnotize our children and offer only temporal relief by removing the own free will of the followers. A false religion, philosophy or science guides humans and their neighbors to the desperation of suicide and to economic and ethical bankruptcy. Whereas real religion and science helps humans to face and solve their daily problems in harmony with each other.

 

This day, the one we are living right now, is always the most important stage for us, because it is the only time where we can make changes and improvements. Real science and religion support each other. The misleading contradiction and disagreement always arises from false scientific or religious assumptions and interpretations. However, in the long run, renewable and dynamic science and religion will converge in agreement.

 

Our life and world has been designed exactly and precisely just like it is, so that we can make a free choice between faith and atheism. We could not make this free choice if we could prove the existence of God or some higher force using some scientific procedure. Mercy, justice, love, the flowers in the meadow, the atom or the whole universe are all valid evidence of God for the Hindu or Catholic, but the atheist may look at the world from a different perspective. The final proofs are “I am” and “You are” for the religious human, but the atheist has the full right to believe in accidents, luck and fate.

 

Atheism and skepticism need much more blind faith than faith in Jesus does because science cannot prove that God does not exist. A Lutheran, Orthodox, Moslem or Jew can be absolutely sure of God, because they do not base their faith on scientific evidence but instead on the God’s Adjuster which lives in our minds. This tiny fraction of God makes our survival possible and wakes up our religiousness.

 

We Need Courage

 

We need courage to find the scientific or religious truth. The truth is difficult to find if we do not have the courage to study and explore all the information, taboos and even sources which have been branded as suspect. The truth does not depend at all on the information source, author or ism; the truth is based purely on verified scientific and spiritual facts. We should also listen to the voice of our own sense and conscience, which is the main reason for having them.

 

We can find a lot of truth, for example, from the Koran, Bible and also from The Urantia Book, which gives a logical explanation of why we are here, where we come from and where we are going. Our world and language are changing all the time; we do not need to persist with thousand-year-old assumptions and interpretations in science and religion. We should have the courage to revise and update old source material using modern language and concepts. We have enough old rituals, holy icons and empty phrases. Instead, we deserve dynamic and living science, faith and religion, which really affect our decisions, choices and activities in our daily life.

 

The continuous development of dogma and religious content is the most important challenge for Lutheranism, Hinduism, Buddhism or any other religion. An honest and dynamic renewal, reformation, revision and dialogue are needed to increase the harmony and understanding between different religious groups. We should also understand that salvation does not depend on the name of the ism; the only requirement is faith with love and charity without hypocrisy.

 

Philosophy and Ethics

 

Philosophy and ethics solve similar issues as religion; however, many conclusions may be different due to different basic assumptions. Materialistic philosophy assumes that we live only some 80 years but religious philosophy conclusions are based on the idea of eternal life. This gives a totally different perspective to daily life. The religious perspective gives a much more logical explanation for our day-to-day hardship and struggle than a purely philosophical point of view. For example:

 

· We could not understand courage if we did not meet fear and disappointment.

· Without pain and suffering we could not strive for pleasure and joy.

· We could not find altruism and humanism if we did not face social inequality and injustice.

· We could not internalize the love of truth if error and falsehood did not exist.

· We could not comprehend hope and trust if insecurity, accidents and diseases were not always present.

· We could not understand justice if greed and inequality did not exist.

 

We can strive for these valuable qualities only in a world like this, where we can trust only in the mercy and love of our Creator. In a perfect and error-free universe we could not reach these targets. The few years that we spend on the earth is the first day of our eternal journey of exploration; therefore we should always do our best. We often imagine that all our achievements are based on our own skills, but this is not true. Nearly all our own victories are based on the work done by our fellows and hundreds of earlier human generations; we live on the giant’s shoulder. Therefore we should “pay it forward” and do our share to improve this world in which we live.

 

In this world we will never reach full equality and independence. However, the point is that we can strive for these values. Some lucky people are born to rich families, and some poor ones, to the street; some of us get a beautiful body, and some, a sick and distorted one. However, at the moment of death we all are equal; at this stage we must make the final decision between death and eternal life. This is the only truly sovereign and independent decision that we can make in our life on earth; nobody can help us at this final stage.

 

Our universe, atoms, material and life have been created using such vast wisdom and skill that the creation of a perfect paradise would have been a much easier task. We should be aware that even a tiny virus or small seed contains more sophisticated engineering than any device created by Man. Creation means the soul, life, gravity, photons, elements, space and laws of nature. Evolution means the consequences of these basic building materials of our world, for which the stepwise evidence may be found in geological strata and sediments. The fortune may have a role in details but the main guidelines obey rules of the God.

 

We have a much more elevated goal than just obeying rules and observing laws; instead we should also listen to our sense and conscience to find out what is right and what is wrong. The exploitation of our poor and fragile brothers or sisters may be possible by law but not in a true religious philosophy. Our world is changing all the time and therefore, our God does not need robots but humans who can make their own wise decisions and have faith without material evidences or miracles. We have got the free will so that we could be much more than just a machine, which obey the rules.

 

Religious groups should gradually realize that WE HAVE THE SAME GOD but we just call him by different names. We are not enemies, we have the same destination and we can learn a lot from each other. We should notice that the main difference is the rituals and cults, but the God is the same.

 

Philosophy without God is like a thermometer with an unlocked calibration point. Materialistic philosophy may offer a temporary relief and survival like a drifting buoy in the ocean, but religious philosophy leads the way to eternal survival like a lighthouse on a granite base.

 

God Is the Source and Destination

 

God brings unity and a point of calibration to philosophy and ethics. Philosophy cannot attain equality between all humans using only logical argumentation without the concept of one God or Creator. Only this concept and idea can make all of us brothers and sisters with equal human rights. This is the only way to reach the light and worldwide peace. This simple concept will also lead us to serve and worship our fellowmen instead of serving holy relics and empty rituals. God does not live in fetishes but in our minds as God’s Adjuster. Therefore, the businessperson may worship God by making fair deals; the engineer, by creating green processes; and the artist, with cheerful and entertaining work.

 

To science God is a cause, to philosophy a hypothesis of unity and to religion a living person. For the human being God is the source like a father and mother, but he is also the destination because our soul desires for fusion with this tiny fraction of God, which lives in our minds. The human being is a dualistic creature, composed of female and male parts with equal rights. These two poles are different but equally important and they make our life fascinating and exciting because they both give us a different perspective to our world. The dissimilarity and variations are not defects but a strength, which increases the richness of our life and makes us stronger.

 

I want to change the world into a better place for Christians, Moslems, and atheists. The only way towards this target is the idea of one God and Creator, which makes us equal. Otherwise, we tend to consider our own God, philosophy, race, religion, gender and country as superior to the others. This misapprehension will always justify the oppression of our neighbor. I would like to change the world to a place:

 

· Where we do not need barbed wire fences between different religious groups.

· Where the verdict of the court does not depend on the prosperity of the defendant.

· Where religious rituals cannot replace the esteem and charity of our fellow man in daily life.

· Where women have equal rights with men.

· Where the illusion of national sovereignty cannot be used as an excuse to start wars and conflicts.

· Where we don’t have to hide our personality behind walls and pseudonyms like rats in holes.

· Where justice and empathy are more important issues than traditions, cults and bureaucracy.

· Where the highest religious ideas will be transformed into real daily life using the best scientific tools.

· Where we do not fight for the God and religion but for the men and women, because we are weak but the God is strong.

 

Two thousand years ago, cowards shouted “Free Barabbas” and “Crucify Jesus.” Many of us may imagine that this does not affect us; however, at the moment of “departure,” each of us will face this very same personal choice.

 

Antti Roine, January 1, 2005 – February 21, 2006

 

PS. I would be glad to get your feedback and comments how to improve this column.

[Turtle]

___I would definately shorten it. As an essay, the length is not bad, but as a post in a thread few will even read it.

___Welcome to Hypography Science Forum.

 

PS Try searching the forum for your topic to catch up on similar discussions.

[Kirk Gregory Czuhai]

i personally find your essay very refreshing considering the fact that at least (in my short exposer to this forum) it appears to me many members of this forum over estimate science and under estimate the importance of religion, art, and philosophy as descriptors of reality!

 

however, i disagree with your assertion that Christianity, if i read you right, is to take equal footing with other "religions". This i cannot do, nor do i believe should be done.

 

Other religions may follow an idol, or a prophet, or a wise man or woman, but Jesus Christ is the son of God and THE ONLY PATH TO GOD AND SALVATION.

[lindagarrette]

Science Cannot Replace Religion

 

 

PS. I would be glad to get your feedback and comments how to improve this column.

Your column is well written but it doesn't belong in this forum. It appears to be a theological opinion (sermon) you have developed on your own and quite frankly, I find it preachy and dull. I also disagree with most of it as will the other freethinkers who post here. You should look for an evangelical group to hook up with.

[C1ay]

Your column is well written but it doesn't belong in this forum. It appears to be a theological opinion (sermon) you have developed on your own and quite frankly, I find it preachy and dull. I also disagree with most of it as will the other freethinkers who post here. You should look for an evangelical group to hook up with.

I agree. Since we do not have a religious forum yet I have placed it here. OTOH, if you can prove, via the scientific method, the existance of God then we will find an appropriate science forum to put it in.

[UncleAl]

Jesus Christ is the son of God and THE ONLY PATH TO GOD AND SALVATION.

Three! Three! Three gods in one! is breath mint theology.

 

Dominus et magister noster Iesus Christus dicendo "Poenitentiam agite adpropinquavit enim regnum caelorum" omnem vitam fidelium penitentiam esse voluit.

 

Yaweh wants ignorance, suffering, blood, dead babies, and your money. You go squat in mud puddles and lash your back with broken glass-studded whips. The rest of us will stand tall and create the future.

[Antti]

Turtle

 

Short and simple is ofcourse nice but sometimes it is difficult to express all the main ideas by few words. I still hope that this article will arise some comments and ideas.

 

Antti

[Antti]

Kirk

 

I believe that it may be more fruitful to find the good issues from the different religions and try to strengthen these than rank the Gods. We have hundreds of different religions on this tiny planet which moves thought the wast universe with billion billions suns and planets. It would we incredible miracle if each religion would have different Gods, or the God would save only the believers of one certain religion.

 

I am sure that only the name is different but the God is exactly the same for the all the religious groups. For me, the Christian, the name is Jesus who is the son of the God.

 

Antti ;)

[Antti]

lindagarrette

 

Many thanks for the feedback. The development of the science and society is based on liberty of speech. Science cannot be developed by plugging ears from differing opinions and ideas. The strong and dynamic society and people stand up the criticism but not the dictatorship.

 

I feel the relation between religion, science and society as an extremely important issue which should be discussed more also in this forum.

 

Still I understand also your opinion, it is much easier to discuss with the people which agree with you in all matters but on the other hand it may be boring.

 

Antti ;)

[Smokinjoe9]

 

Yaweh wants ignorance, suffering, blood, dead babies, and your money. You go squat in mud puddles and lash your back with broken glass-studded whips. The rest of us will stand tall and create the future.

 

Lighten up, it is an opinion just like yours. The reading is interesting. An open mind is the only way to learn. No matter how obserd things may seem to you, you will never grow or learn past your own opinion or knowledge if you don't allow alternate thought to enter into your reasoning.

 

If I have to I would take a beating to keep this country free enough for you to continue your scientific research no matter how futile it is..

[Antti]

C1ay

 

The effect of the religion on the development of our society, politics, warfare and science has been and will be huge. You may easily make scientific experimental observations of this; for example, open your eyes, how many churches you see ?

 

I feel the relation between religion, science and society as an extremely important issue which should be discussed more also in the scientific forums. Free science should not close the eyes from the primary causes and driving force of the humans.

 

The science and religion can not be in disagreement - they study different issues but affect to each others. Therefore science forums should not exclude religion. But ofcourse your are the Editor and Forum Administrator and you make the decisions here.

 

Antti

[Antti]

UncleAl

 

Your are right, there is lot of misapprehension in the religious sources.

 

Antti

[Smokinjoe9]

UncleAl

 

Your are right, there is lot of misapprehension in the religious sources.

 

Antti

 

True belief should never be based on religion(specifically). Open debate of belief is an excellent idea and should continue, religion has nothing to do with belief it is a curriculum for doctrine and religious misrepresentation. Don't get me wrong I don't hate Baptists, Catholics, etc...I am just not one to follow a specific religious sect...

[Antti]

Smokinjoe9

 

I still agree with most of your ideas. Belief and religious doctrines are different issues, still many religious literature sources offer us lot of basic ideas which could help us to survive and be happy.

 

Antti

[Stargazer]

Science Cannot Replace Religion

[...] If we have the courage to pursue this chain of evidence to the very end and meet the original cause then we will always end up with God, i.e. we will find the primary reason, which has no cause.

How can you be sure of this? How do you know there is a cause, that there must be a cause or that this primary reason does not have a cause?

 

Atheists try to wriggle out from this logical problem by inventing some name for this primary reason, such as the Big Bang.

Not really.

 

All matter, energy, life and spirit was compressed into a space smaller than a pinhead 14 billion years ago, according to the current official scientific conception. Scientific facts may, however, change because we still know less than one percent of the existing natural laws and matters. Science changes and improves our understanding of the universe all the time, however, we will always find God at the final end of every scientific footpath, now and forever.

So are you looking for scientific understanding, or religious beliefs?

 

[...]

Different Domains

 

Science does not speak out about the questions that are of fundamental importance for the human spirit, namely, right and wrong.

It's not meant to do that, even though people seem to believe it should. Perhaps they think that science is another religion.

 

Religion finds the answers to these questions. [Regarding right and wrong]

Not necessarily. You don't need religion to see what is right or wrong, or that there are seldom sharp lines in between. Some people seem to need to make up a god as some sort of argument why we should follow a certain set of moral code though. Interesting.

 

Real science bravely finds out which material issues are true and which are false. Using science, we may improve the welfare of our bodies. Real religion finds out the spiritual issues which are true and which make our soul happy. These positive effects may be used to identify true science and true religion from the false and the fake.

I'm not happy about religion at all, and I would not be happy being religious either. I much prefer not to make up the answers.

 

A false religion, philosophy or science guides humans and their neighbors to the desperation of suicide and to economical and ethical bankruptcy. Whereas the real religion and science helps humans to face and solve their daily problems.

What religion is not false? How come your religion is right and others are false, and how do you know yours prevent the things you mentioned? Religion is in my eyes rather useless. Science is useful.

 

[...]

Mercy, justice, love, the flowers in the meadow, the atom or the whole universe are all valid evidence of God for the Hindu or Catholic but the atheist may look at the world from a different perspective.

I see, the argument from things that are aesthetically pleasing? Strong, solid evidence right there... Of course, it's only evidence of flower and atoms, but still.

 

Atheism and skepticism need much more blind faith than faith in Jesus does, because science cannot prove that God does not exist.

Oh that's a new one... heh. Tell me, can science prove that the IPU does not exist? Or invisible dragons living in the garage?

 

A Lutheran, Orthodox, Moslem or Jew can be absolutely sure of God, because they do not base their faith on scientific evidence but instead on the God’s Adjuster which lives in our minds. This tiny fraction of God makes our survival possible and wakes up our religiousness.

So you're saying it's better to rely on faith rather than on scientific evidence?

 

We may find a lot of truth, for example, from the Koran, Bible and also from the Urantia Book, which gives a logical explanation of why we are here, where we come from and where we are going. [...]

No, they really don't. The Bible is completely unfit as a science textbook. It's a book of myths and halftruths.

 

Philosophy and Ethics

 

Philosophy and ethics solve similar issues as religion; however, many conclusions may be different due to the different basic assumptions. Materialistic philosophy assumes that we live only some 80 years but religious philosophy conclusions are based on the idea of eternal life. This gives a totally different perspective to our daily life. This religious perspective gives a much more logical explanation for our day-to-day hardship and struggle than a purely philosophical point of view, for example:

I find the idea of eternal life to be a product of wishful thinking and and anthropocentric idea at that. There's no evidence of eternal life, so it's not a good idea to base anything on the assumption that there is evidence.

 

Our universe, atoms, material and life have been created using such vast wisdom and skill that the creation of a perfect paradise would have been a much easier task. We should be aware that even a tiny virus or small seed contains more sophisticated engineering than any human created device.

Only if we compare to what we have accomplished so far. But why should we assume that we're looking at a creation?

 

Our world is changing all the time and therefore our God does not need robots but humans who can make their own wise decisions and have faith without material evidence.

So should we abolish science altogether? I do see tendencies toward this... in Kansas for example. That we're expected to believe everything without evidence is a terrible idea. It is convenient for an invisible god though...

 

I want to change the world into a better place for Christian, Moslem and atheist. The only way towards this target is the idea of one God and Creator, which makes us equal. Otherwise, we tend to consider our own God, philosophy, race, religion, gender and country as superior to the others. This misapprehension will always justify the oppression of your neighbor.

Why not just realise that what people believe are just ancient tribal myths that adds nothing when it comes to our understanding of the universe, and certainly nothing when it comes to create peace and progress in the world.

[Antti]

Smokinjoe9

 

I agree. Freedom of opinion is one of the most important achievements of the modern society.

 

Dialogue promotes development.

 

Antti

=======================================================

 

Lighten up, it is an opinion just like yours. The reading is interesting. An open mind is the only way to learn. No matter how obserd things may seem to you, you will never grow or learn past your own opinion or knowledge if you don't allow alternate thought to enter into your reasoning.

 

If I have to I would take a beating to keep this country free enough for you to continue your scientific research no matter how futile it is..

[C1ay]

Moved to religion forum...