The Bible, and reasons why not to allow kids to read it

[Cedars]

Yes, I have known a couple of people. These people taught their children that it was OK to hate people simply because they identified themselves as a Christian.

 

That the Bible was full of ...Snipped copy of quote..

Those same kids would then come to school and try to say that I believed slavery, bigotry, polygamy, ethnic genocide, and other things were OK and then cite scripture from the Bible. Of course when I tried to explain to them where their errant parents or religious leader had misled them, they covered their ears and shouted loudly.

 

As I said, the Bible is an excellent tool for teaching religious bigotry and intolerance.

 

Are you saying that out of the blue, people began to question your belief system this harshly without you having opened the issue yourself? Are you saying these kids ran around the school/playground inquiring whether you (and others) believed in a God so they could single those people out? Or were you doing as instructed by whatever belief system you hold and trying out witnessing to others and that is how your belief system was reveled to these other people?

 

To question someone on whether or not they believe in the things the bible supports (slavery, bigotry, polyagamy, etc) is not an act of hate, "so you think/support slavery, etc and its ok"? Inquiring minds want to know..... So why exactly do you use the term hate? What exactly did they do that was an act of hate? Additionally, were these tormentors atheist/agnostics or were they of a different flavor of God belief, or dont you know exactly what religious doctrine/lack of the tormenters held?

 

Oh, and because I dont know, are you in the USA?

 

I had one particular student call me a Nazi simply because I believed that I should not salute the flag in the 4th grade.

How is this related to the Bible and the topic discussed? Being a Nazi (or not) is a political point of view.

 

I also note that you said gleaned from, were these children saying these things directly to your childs face, or was your child just overhearing conversations and asking you questions about their beliefs?

 

Actually this was a playground discussion with classmates who brought up this issue directly to my child face. These where children who my child had known for the few years they had been in school and they often spent time together at lunch/recess. And it wasnt long before this conversation was taken to others in the school, so many ended up using this as an opportunity to isolate this non-believer.

 

Just so you know, I gave the advice to tell these people it was none of their business what religious idealisms were held and that my child did not want to talk about religious ideas/beliefs that were held, with them (among other options). This was not good enough for the believer children of course.

 

Besides, even if it was a converstation overheard between others, it is still a conversation about religious bigotry. The Us vs Them I spoke of. One thing I will say is there was no physical attacks on this particular non-believer. If that had occured, there would have been other actions taken inspite of possible protests against it from my child.

 

I'm sorry, but I am free to respond that they weren't interpreting the bible correctly. In fact, I challenge these very beliefs all the time. No one has ever been able to convince me that there is a place where God sends people to torment them for eternity. Have you ever read such a scripture? Or are you falling into that group that believes what one person said 1000 years ago about what they believed the bible taught and since then has been a doctrine of tradition not of scripture?

 

Fine, but the general consensus (and writtings attributed as Jesus words about Everlasting Fire, prepared for the devil and his angels, and for people who fall outside of this Jesus persons grace, including those who wont pluck their eyes out, in the NT, written by Jesus chosen apostles, Matthew and Mark and John in the least, via KJV (1980s), St Joesphs Catholic (1950s) and another KJV from the 1890s) accepts hell and eternal torment/suffering for the THEMS. So if your going to deny these parts exist inspite of the fact they are included in the Bible, well... whatever... so whos covering their ears and running away now? Or do you use a different book?

 

Besides, I do not fall into the group that believes any of that. I am repeating the reasons others who believe use in their inherent religious intolerance, and why they are good reasons not to expose your child to the Bible as a tool of parenting. And I know it [the Bible] is not needed to produce a person of sound moral character in the real world.

 

Sounds like you did raise your child with comprehension of religion, though possibly not by choice. You took the road that you understood the Bible well enough to pass judgment and teach your kids. Hopefully you made the right decision, I would disagree with your understanding, and only time will tell. I'm saying that everyone does, because at some time or another they are going to have to deal with the very subjects you brought up here.

 

First, I did not 'pass judgement' I had no personal use for the Bible. Second, right, Not By Choice. I never encouraged nor denied the access to the Bible. Maybe you should go back and read my posts again. Such as this:

Religion and the items used by the religious to confirm their faith was a non-issue in my home, until the children who were religious started bringing up the issue of Jesus and God.

 

My child is a legal adult by a few years and has never caused any problem (moral, ethical, general, legal) related to her actions with other people, that I can think of. The decisions and life choices made by this person are respected by all who know this persons interworkings in life, the world, and everything. I admire the balanced person who has become an adult. I respect this individual. So how much more time is needed?

 

Is it better to sit back and wait until someone breaches the subject with your children? Do you want your children to go through the heartache you described at such a young age, because you didn't want to discuss it? The common theme today is that you should talk to your kids about everything, including drugs, sex, etc. at a very young age because they will have to deal with it sooner or later.

 

What makes you think, with as huge as the world is, and the REAL things going on around us each and every day, that I had time to waste on adult fairy tales? You just dont get it do you? Those children do not need to be proselytizing at school and filling my kids head with threats of hell and eternal damnation, rejecting the friendship based soley on the lack of God belief, and a host of other behaviors of intolerance and bigotry. Why couldnt these children say 'oh, ok, nevermind'? or "oh, well, lets talk about something else then". It was not my child who put up the walls based on their God belief, it was the believers who did that. What was inflicted was harrassment. What was experienced was bigotry. That was the real world experience that this particular non-believer had to deal with. And it is not the only case I have had experience with. This is why people sue to keep religion out of schools. This is why I do not consider the Bible a teaching tool for children.

[cwes99_03]

As I said, the Bible is an excellent tool for teaching religious bigotry and intolerance.

I think you misunderstood me. I did not know what faith these people had, but their children seemed to hate anyone who they may think to be a christian. So the bigotry came from those who were against christians. I have known many christians who hated other christians, and non-christians who hated christians, and atheists who laughed at christians and insisted these people were the scum of the earth, citing their beliefs as proof that they were incapable of higher thought.

No, I was not at the age of 7 trying to convert (or teach) anyone, but I was known not to do certain things because of my christian beliefs. Therefore, I became the most ridiculed kid in a school of about 140 kids (small town USA.)

 

Your replies here show that you have passed judgment on the Bible and what it teaches. You have come to a conclusion, meaning that you have made a judgment, based upon the evidence that you have sought out that what the bible teaches is nothing more than "adult fairy tales."

Do you think that your feelings on the subject of the Bible did not influence your daughter? What if your daughter were to meet a man who was extremely nice and kind, a wonderful man, but he firmly believed in the Bible? Would she be inclined to marry that man, or pass on him because of his beliefs? This is no different from those "christians" at your daughter's school who did not want to associate with those who held different beliefs.

It is tantamount to anyone not wanting a sex offender to live in their neighborhood. The sex offender does not share the same values as the rest of the group, and therefore the group wants to distance themselves from him/her.

Those kids have every right to do what they want so long as they don't resort to physical harm. It is the purpose of free speech. I'm not saying their treatment of your daughter was correct or not, nor am I saying that their beliefs are correct.

 

What I have stated over and over is that you as a parent made a conscious decision in your life that the Bible was not for you. I hoped that you made this decision based on fact, not based on hearsay. I pointed out the different situations that could occur in my first post that you began to question.

 

The point of this topic was to answer the question whether or not children should be allowed to read the Bible. I asked whether or not a parent should teach their children what they knew about the Bible. These two questions are linked.

Many here have said that they would let their children read the Bible (albeit most hoping that the child would quickly lose interest.) You have given me the perfect reason why parents may want to take a closer look at the Bible with their children, in a society that primarily identifies itself as Christian. But when doing so, I strongly cautioned that the parent know more about the Bible than the child or others who come into contact with the child. I would recommend the same about drugs, sex, violence, health, and many more things.

Too many people today shirk their duties as a parent and hope their kids turn out well.

Cedars, you took a vested interest in your child. You say your child is now a well-adjusted adult. Cheers. You've raised a well adjusted adult. My parents too raised a well adjusted adult, or so several hundred friends of mine believe.

[Cedars]

I think you misunderstood me. I did not know what faith these people had, but their children seemed to hate anyone who they may think to be a christian. So the bigotry came from those who were against christians. I have known many christians who hated other christians, and non-christians who hated christians, and atheists who laughed at christians and insisted these people were the scum of the earth, citing their beliefs as proof that they were incapable of higher thought.

No, I was not at the age of 7 trying to convert (or teach) anyone, but I was known not to do certain things because of my christian beliefs. Therefore, I became the most ridiculed kid in a school of about 140 kids (small town USA.)

Your not saying you were the only Christian in this small town are you? Or are you saying you were the only person who adhered to your particular sect of Christianity and that is why you were targeted? Because to say you dont know what they believed, but that they seemed to hate Christians, were these children picking on a number of persons or just you? I am really confused by these statements about your past.

Do you think that your feelings on the subject of the Bible did not influence your daughter? What if your daughter were to meet a man who was extremely nice and kind, a wonderful man, but he firmly believed in the Bible? Would she be inclined to marry that man, or pass on him because of his beliefs? This is no different from those "christians" at your daughter's school who did not want to associate with those who held different beliefs.

No, my feelings did not influence my daughter. It was a non-issue. My feelings did not influence her decisions about Islam, Hindu, Buddism, Wiccan, or any of the multitude of religions out there. The best way to describe the influence my opinion was on my daughter was indifference. You seem to have trouble grasping that there can be such a position within a home. Neither pro nor con. Christianity was a non-issue. Islam was a non-issue. Is that making sense? Think about some fact you came upon outside of the home, something your parents never talked about. Was their indifference an influence on your opinion of that matter which came to your attention later?

It is tantamount to anyone not wanting a sex offender to live in their neighborhood. The sex offender does not share the same values as the rest of the group, and therefore the group wants to distance themselves from him/her.

Whoa! It is not even related. Drop this comparision and seek a better analogy.

Those kids have every right to do what they want so long as they don't resort to physical harm. It is the purpose of free speech. I'm not saying their treatment of your daughter was correct or not, nor am I saying that their beliefs are correct.

Actually they do not. Most discrimination and harrassment issues do not involve physical contact. The freedom of religion includes freedom from religion. I do not know if you have attended any harrassment workshops due to your employment but if not, I would suggest you attend one. Those kids did not have a right to try to influence the religion of my child in that school setting. If my child had wanted me to pursue it via legal methods, I would have. As I said multiple options were discussed. You should really read up a bit on the law regarding religious harrassment in a school setting and the responsiblities of the schools to ensure this does not occur. You may have (in the past) had grounds for a lawsuit yourself for what you encountered.

 

The point of this topic was to answer the question whether or not children should be allowed to read the Bible. I asked whether or not a parent should teach their children what they knew about the Bible. These two questions are linked.

Many here have said that they would let their children read the Bible (albeit most hoping that the child would quickly lose interest.) You have given me the perfect reason why parents may want to take a closer look at the Bible with their children, in a society that primarily identifies itself as Christian. But when doing so, I strongly cautioned that the parent know more about the Bible than the child or others who come into contact with the child. I would recommend the same about drugs, sex, violence, health, and many more things.

If nothing else, our discussion back and forth may have made a few parents (or future parents) think a bit when raising their children to believe or not believe and how they handle the encounters that will arise.

[cwes99_03]

I agree to that last statement. I hope it has raised awareness. I do think indifference has an effect on children. I'm sure that there are many things that, since my parents took no interest in them, I likewise took no interest in. Unfortunately every action or non-action has an effect on the development of a child.

 

Yes I have had harrassment training. Yes I have been harrassed. Yes, I was probably the primary target when I was younger. However, I know of children who also made fun of catholics when they talked about their first communion. I do not recall what the religious views of all the children were. It simply did not bother me to be made fun of, as much as your daughter's encounter bothered you. I expected it because my parents had discussed the issues with me in advance.

 

I don't think I should drop the analogy about the sex offender. It definitely raises red flags for most people, but the truth of it is, some people feel like they don't have to associate with others because of their feelings on any number of issues.

In some foreign countries, people who profess to be of my religion are treated worse than sex offenders. They are beaten, jailed, harassed continually, have their homes broken into and their businesses destroyed. And this isn't being done by other regular citizens but by police officers.

Those children do not need to be proselytizing at school and filling my kids head with threats of hell and eternal damnation, rejecting the friendship based soley on the lack of God belief, and a host of other behaviors of intolerance and bigotry. Why couldnt these children say 'oh, ok, nevermind'? or "oh, well, lets talk about something else then".

Again, they have every right to ask questions of anyone. To raise points of contrast, and to not associate with those who have differing opinions.

As you have mentioned their are laws protecting children from religious harassment by teachers, by adults and parents outside of the school, and in some extreme cases even by kids in the school.

This does not extend to every word and act by a child, but only when it is deemed that those acts create an environment where a reasonable person would not be able to have a normal school experience. This would include bullying, but not of the slight kind, where a child is made fun of for their views. I don't know all the specifics of your childs experiences, and as I said the kids who did these things were most likely in the wrong.

[CerebralEcstasy]

While the following wasn't directly addressed to me, the following things came to mind when I read it. Hopefully you won't mind that I've put my thoughts in.

Because to be honest with you, I did not raise my child with any comprehension of God belief. Religion and the items used by the religious to confirm their faith was a non-issue in my home, until the children who were religious started bringing up the issue of Jesus and God in schools (like on the playground, not as a part of the curriculum). Just so you can comprehend what I am talking about, this information told to my child was hideously similar to the web page I put a link to. The only time I used the Bible was in self defense for some horrible issue brought into my childs life by those using the Bible as their moral guide.

 

You presume that all of these children's parents actually were gleaning the correct information from the bible. While later in this paragraph you say not to cite this... it remains a fact that people because of different experiences and backgrounds interpret the scriptures differently.

Not all religions teach hell-fire and damnation. Given that there is a lot of violence in the bible, the underlying theme of it is love. It refers to God as love. It isn't logical to think that someone who loves you would want you to burn in hell for all eternity. They were misinformed.

 

You have no idea the impact this had on my child and the things that we needed to discuss, such as how my child is not going to hell because Jesus wasnt a part of his/her life. This was information gleened from Christian kids, not from a non-believing parent trying to insure that this child held a bigotry towards any flavor of religion.

 

Actually I do have a bit of experience with this as well. Not because my children aren't believers, but rather that we uphold different beliefs.

 

And please do not respond with "well they werent interpreting the Bible correctly". See above.

 

Their words were a direct result of many local/national/world known persons interpretation of what the Bible says, and a common lesson taught to most, if not all, Christian children in their formative years while trying to ensure the God idea is a part of the Christian childs thought process.

 

Their words were a direct result of dogmatic thinking, a line of thought that the bible condemns. Someone in the church told them that the bible said this, but none of them bothered to examine the other 2304820583084 scriptures that discuss "hell". This sort of thing burns my biscuits as well.

God is being slandered because of all the "well intentioned idiots" who are running around trying to garner support for him. Christians by and large are one of the most self righteous groups, looking down on others for their shortcomings.

The bible also speaks about them, and none too fondly. In fact Jesus himself referred to those as vipers and the like. (Quite the insult in his day I suspect *laughs*)

 

BTW, this was children in 3rd grade. It got worse from this point until around 9th grade, when children often start to see the wrong idealisms a parent, community, society holds. As a parent, I was GRATEFUL for the rebelious years of youth which allowed SOME of these societally approved of religious bigots, to start looking at my child from a more open minded point of view, and some of them actually began to treat my child as an equal human being, rather than the pariah label once relegated upon this little person. You cannot begin to comprehend the emotional pain this child went thru during very influential growth years via the intolerance inherant in religion.

 

I'm sorry that your child had to go through this. Parents who use the bible as a guide for the moral upbringing of their children need to be adamant that just because someone doesn't share your beliefs, it doesn't mean that they are inferior to you. One would think that if Christ were like that, he'd had told the prostitute to hit the road because she was nothing but a lowly whore.

Not exactly conducive to providing an effective witness for Christ if you're looking down your nose at someone though.

 

Unfortunately there is a flip-side to this, as some Atheists automatically assume that as a Christian you take this stance. My spouse is an Atheist, and when we first had discussions about this, he accused me of such. Yet, not once did I ever think that. Depends on the Christian.

While I'm sure that all of this has left you with a less than favorable impression of Christians as a whole, rest assured there are many like myself who do NOT share the same self righteous attitude that Christendom today is sporting.

 

 

How exactly would you suggest a parent deal with such an issue that is so ingrained in a society? Yes, the Bible does teach alot of horrible and inhumane things.

 

While it does talk of horrible and inhumane things, our laws are still based on the 10 commandments. Which I suspect you can see some benefit in surely.

 

It is about bigotry against others who believe different and an excellent guideline to propel that separation of people. And why is that wrong to teach someone to stay away from this idealism that is so intolerant of others singularily because of an issue of 'faith'?

 

Either way you're separating yourselves, intolerance can work both ways. Once again this depends on the people involved.

With that being said, I hope this hasn't come off as preachy.

Regards,

CE

[ughaibu]

The Bible is full of contradictions and confusion, this alone disqualifies it's content, per se, from being an effective teaching tool, the relevance of the Bible as a teaching tool is to matters other than it's content and as it is unauthoritive on anything but it's own content, it can serve only as an example, not as a guide. This, of course, is no reason to disallow the reading of it, after all, a child is constantly interacting with uninstructive stimuli, on the other hand, it's difficult to imagine many children would bother reading it, and I cant see any excuse for coercing anyone, child or not, into reading it.

[Edella]

Very good post CerebralEcstasy.I wish there were more Christians like yourself and some others who post here(Hi Infamous!)

 

A few observations:

Given that there is a lot of violence in the bible, the underlying theme of it is love. It refers to God as love. It isn't logical to think that someone who loves you would want you to burn in hell for all eternity.

I've never understood how God,being the epitome of love, could possibly treat certain people the way He did;The story of Job comes to mind.There are other stories too,I won't bore you,I assume you know scripture better than I do.Suffice to say the attributes accorded God and his actions don't add up for me.Like your take on hell,I don't think it's logical.

They were misinformed.

Says who?Who or what group has the correct interpretation of the Bible?Short of God coming down and telling us,how can we know?I bet some people would(do) point to descriptions of hell in the Bible and accuse you of being misinformed.(Of course I prefer your interpretation.:shrug: )I'm not aware of the other 2304820583084(wow) scriptures that discuss "hell".

 

My spouse is an Atheist

This is great. I'm an atheist and would marry a Christian,who loved and respected me for who I am.(certain conditions may apply).This might be rare,I wonder how often this occurs?

our laws are still based on the 10 commandments. Which I suspect you can see some benefit in surely.

This I completely disagree with.Why do some people think these laws didn't exist until the dawn of Christianity?They are not unique to Christianity,nor can Christianity claim originality.

-Do not worship other gods is bunk and has no place in a modern society.As a matter of fact,that "law" runs counter to what a free society is all about.

-The sabbath need not be kept holy by anyone,anyone tryng to pass such a "law"would be infringing on others rights.(and mocked)

-I of course can make as many idols as I want,and can use the Lords name in vain to my hearts content without fear of reprisal.(Worldly)

-I can covet anything I wish.No law prevents me from secretly or publicly coveting my neighbors wife,goat,or cutlery.

These five commandments have absolutley nothing to do with modern western law.Nothing.

And the "good" commandments:steal,lie,kill,are not original Christian concepts.

 

I hope that rant didn't put you off too much,but the claim that our laws are still based on the 10 commandments gets to me.I originally had in mind to complement you on your genuinely sweet tone and your open-minded aproach to Christian faith.And tell you that you haven't come off as preachy.:D

 

Ed

[IDMclean]

I am very much glad to see a person of faith who accepts other world views. It's refreshing.

 

Oh an in regards to Job, God didn't do anything. Satan was allowed to test Job's resolve and faith. In the end God restored everything Job lost plus a little.

 

The book of Job is about a righteous man. Who in the face of trial and tribulation refused to give up his faith and trust in the overall goodness of the world. He refused to despair and held onto hope, while others told him that he should be unhappy and curse the name of god for the loss of his worldly goods.

 

Anyway, I would like to openly welcome you, CebrebralEscatsy, to Hypography. Nice post and keep up the good will.

[cwes99_03]

A slight correction if I may.

Who in the face of trial and tribulation refused to give up his faith and trust in the overall goodness of the world. He refused to despair and held onto hope, while others told him that he should be unhappy and curse the name of god for the loss of his worldly goods.

He didn't hope in the overall goodness of the world, but in his God. He knew the world and its inhabitants were imperfect, but that his God was one of supreme justice, power, love, and wisdom. Would you say this is correct?

 

Anyway, there are plenty of ways the Bible has and will continue to be interpretted. Of course there are wrong ways.

Says who?Who or what group has the correct interpretation of the Bible?Short of God coming down and telling us,how can we know?I bet some people would(do) point to descriptions of hell in the Bible and accuse you of being misinformed.(Of course I prefer your interpretation. )I'm not aware of the other 2304820583084(wow) scriptures that discuss "hell".

The Bible itself says that there would be groups that mislead others, teaching their own teachings instead of those taught by Jesus.

There can be no doubt that there are ways of interpretting scripture that are absolutely wrong. Otherwise I could interpret the Bible as saying that the clouds are made of cotton candy and could site Genesis 1:1 as saying such and you would be telling me I could be right.

Obviously there are finer points that may still be debated. Jesus told his apostles that there would be things written in the Bible that they would not comprehend in their lifetime. I believe that there are still things we do not fully understand, but can apply ourselves to trying to understand.

Thus if I teach my children what the Bible teaches, I walk a fine line, and need to make sure of what I believe and can reason on, else they will see the falacy in my statements.

 

Teaching that the Bible's principles on life are supreme to others is not bigotry. Nor is it wrong, legally, for a parent who wishes to do so, to use the Bible in educating their child. Likewise, a parent who wants to teach their child that everyone should be loved, has a right to do so. How unfortuneate though when that child gets hurt by someone who is dangerous. Likewise how unfortuneate for the child of the Christian, if they discover their parents did not know what the Bible really taught.

[IDMclean]

Amen.

[Edella]

Teaching that the Bible's principles on life are supreme to others is not bigotry.

Dictionaries seem to have slight differences,but one thing common to all definitions of bigotry I've seen is this:intolerance.In my opinion,a bigot is someone who derives a sense of superiority from believing that s/he is a member of some elite group that is superior to other groups. Bigotry is the all-encompassing term for such things as racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.

 

There can be no doubt that there are ways of interpreting scripture that are absolutely wrong.

Most certainly true,may I ask you how this could be interpreted to be anything but intolerent and bigoted: Leviticus 18:22"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination."

 

Or this:Exodus 22:20 "He who sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed." If this commandment is obeyed, then the four billion people who do not believe in the biblical god must be killed.

 

One more:Exodus 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

 

There seems to be no way around the fact that these commandments are intolerant to say the least.

 

...a parent who wants to teach their child that everyone should be loved...

I guess you can teach a child to love a witch while at the same time teaching her that a witch "shalt not suffer ....to live."

 

I know many wonderful Christians that are tolerant and and loving(most actually).

I just can't see how someone can say the Bible's principles on life are supreme to others,much less tolerant.

 

A big part of the reason I'm not a Christian is the fact that the Bible is one of the most intolerant books I have ever read.

 

Respectfully,

Ed

[CerebralEcstasy]

A few observations:

I've never understood how God, being the epitome of love, could possibly treat certain people the way He did;The story of Job comes to mind.There are other stories too,I won't bore you,I assume you know scripture better than I do.Suffice to say the attributes accorded God and his actions don't add up for me.

 

If you read the story, you'll see that God pointed Job out to Satan. While this seems rather cruel, it shows God's confidence in Job. While I don't want to get into the "teaching" aspect, this goes back to the garden of eden, where Satan basically challenged God's right to rule. Satan says that the only reason Christians love God is because God blesses us. Job was an example that this wasn't the case, he lost everything - yet still refused to curse God.

 

Like your take on hell,I don't think it's logical.

 

Thanks.

 

I bet some people would(do) point to descriptions of hell in the Bible and accuse you of being misinformed.(Of course I prefer your interpretation.:shrug: )I'm not aware of the other 2304820583084(wow) scriptures that discuss "hell".

 

I don't doubt they would, but they find it difficult to explain the scriptures that make it illogical to believe in hell. Like the one that says the wages of sin is death - once you're dead doesn't that make the sin bought and paid for?

 

 

I'm not aware of the other 2304820583084(wow) scriptures that discuss "hell".

 

I was being facetious....but there are rather a lot of them.

 

This is great. I'm an atheist and would marry a Christian,who loved and respected me for who I am.(certain conditions may apply).This might be rare,I wonder how often this occurs?

 

Not often I'm sure, as most Christians are encouraged to marry those with the same faith. I won't lie it is somewhat difficult at times, but I do respect and love all that he is, even if we don't agree on this particular subject.

 

I hope that rant didn't put you off too much, but the claim that our laws are still based on the 10 commandments gets to me.

 

Nope. You're entitled to your say, I've had mine *laughs*.

[CerebralEcstasy]

KAC:

 

Thanks for the welcome!!!:shrug: !

/forums/images/smilies/banana_sign.gif

[cwes99_03]

Actually, God asked Satan (paraphrasing) "why have you set your heart on my servant Job?" God (knowing Satan's thoughts at the time) knew that Satan was there to challenge him and intended to use Job as an example.

 

Those laws were for the Jews who were bound by the Mosaic Law. The principles however still apply to those who believe that by being obedient to the one who they believe created all things and therefore has the right to determine what we should and should not do.

I guess you could say I'm a bit intolerant. I dont want to associate with those who choose to go against what the Bible teaches to do right. It is my right to religious belief, of course, and knowing how tolerant you are, you smile and graciously nod. However, I do not attack people who are homosexual. I politely explain that I disagree with their choices and do not wish to associate with them.

Jesus had meals and spoke with all kinds of people who were unclean. He did so to teach them what they were doing wrong. Many of these people turned away from their former lives of wrongdoing and began to live lives described as clean in the Bible.

Do I sound like I am being intolerant of others? Has anyone here thought that I was being racist or bigotted in any other way?

[Edella]

I dont want to associate with those who choose to go against what the Bible teaches to do right.

And then:

 

Do I sound like I am being intolerant of others?

Quite frankly,yes.You don't want to associate with the vast majority of people on the planet.

[IDMclean]

I can guarantee Cwes that you would not associate with me, and I would not associate with you. I am by many definitions of the word Deviant. As deviancy is relative to the culture I am comfortable with that, as for there to be change there needs to be people who deviate from the norm. Otherwise the norm could not adjust and the system would be static.

 

I politely explain that I disagree with their choices and do not wish to associate with them.

 

Exclusion is a property of Intolerance.

[cwes99_03]

Definitions of intolerance on the Web: (via "define:intolerance" http://www.google.com)

impatience with annoyances; "his intolerance of interruptions" 
unwillingness to recognize and respect differences in opinions or beliefs 
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

------Intolerance is the lack of ability or willingness to tolerate something. 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intolerance

an attitude of not accepting or respecting different opinions, practices, or people.
dizzy.library.arizona.edu/branches/ccp/education/guides/reframe/glossary.html

is not tolerating other people's views, beliefs, or way of life.
www.curriculumsupport.nsw.edu.au/hsie/speak/pages/printpages/pglossary.htm

unwillingness to let others think as they choose.
schools.cbe.ab.ca/b628/social/russia/glossary.html

 

Definitions of religious intolerance on the Web: (define:religious intolerance)

Religious intolerance is intolerance motivated by one's own religious beliefs, generally against another's religious beliefs. Religious intoleranceand persecution have been common throughout history, and most faiths have been subject to it at one time or another. 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_intolerance

 

Definitions of atheism on the Web:

the doctrine or belief that there is no God 
a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods 
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Atheism is the state either of being without theistic beliefs, or of actively disbelieving in the existence of deities. In antiquity, Epicureanism incorporated aspects of atheism, but it disappeared from the philosophy of the Greek and Roman traditions as Christianity gained influence. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

The belief that God does not exist.
library.thinkquest.org/25416/gloss.htm

One who denies or disbelieves the existence of a God.#
www.stsams.org/dictionary.html

A belief that there are no gods. Greek "a-theos": without-god.
www.reasoned.org/glossary.htm

belief that there is no god and that religion should be suppressed.
www.naiadonline.ca/book/01Glossary.htm

n a) a disbelief [or unbelief] in the existence of deity :confused: the doctrine that there is no deity
tangents.home.att.net/data/rlgdef.htm

 

Definitions of bigot on the Web:

A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own. 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigot

Person extremely intolerant of others and irrespective of reasoning. The Poor and welfare Beneficiaries are often targets of bigots. www.embassy.org.nz/encycl/b2encyc.htm

 

Definitions of bigotry on the Web:

the intolerance and prejudice of a bigot 
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own. 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry

Prejudice carried to the extreme of overt hatred, often carried to the point of violence.
www.gecdf.com/diversity/glossary.html

 

So I asked if I was a bigot because I didn't believe that people who lived differently than the way of life prescribed by the Bible were the type of people I want myself and my future children to associate with.

 

Previously I used the example of a sexual predator. We undoubtedly don't want to associate with them as a society. We have laws against them. Does that make us all bigots?

 

The answer. No, quite simply because we are not unreasoning on the subject. Bigotry as one of the above definitions pointed out, has an unreasoning element. I have solid reasoning on why I should not associate with those people. People who then call me a bigot without asking what those reasons are, might just be bigotted themselves. Would you not agree?