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Posted

Please notice,cwes99_03,that nowhere did I call you a bigot.I expressed my opinion that you are intolerent of others,who "choose to go against what the Bible teaches to do right."Intolerence and bigotry are not interchangable.

 

Previously I used the example of a sexual predator. We undoubtedly don't want to associate with them as a society. We have laws against them. Does that make us all bigots?
Of course not.In that example the person is a threat to the welfare of others,most definitions of bigot,as you pointed out,"have an unreasoning element to them." It's certainly not unreasonable to be intolerent in that case.I would like to add that association does not necessarily imply acceptance.

 

I have solid reasoning on why I should not associate with those people. People who then call me a bigot without asking what those reasons are, might just be bigotted themselves. Would you not agree?

 

I didn't have to ask, you already gave a reason why you don't associate with certain people:"I dont want to associate with those who choose to go against what the Bible teaches to do right."You may have others.Feel free to mention them.Again,I didn't call you a bigot.

 

If someone of a the Islamic faith didn't want to associate with those who choose to go against what the Koran teaches,do you think s/he is intolerent?A bigot?

 

Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by associate.Would you have lunch with an atheist?Would you see a Hindu doctor?Shop at a Korean market?

 

I can't help but point out that,as a frequent poster on hypography,you associate with a lot of non-Christians.

Posted

When I use the word associate, I imagine myself spending time getting to know someone to become friends with them.

My time spent here is not to get to know the people of this site, though that is a side effect. Instead, it is to learn and to teach.

I have shared lunch with workmates. Would I go out to eat afterward, have some drinks with them, party with them? No. If they were to ask for me to teach them how to do soemthing or do some work for them on their computer, I would gladly say yes, as I have a giving spirit and I excel at these things, but the point of the association would not be to become friends with them.

I wouldn't see a doctor who might have issues with my religious beliefs. If you didn't want to have a particular procedure done on you, you too would seek out a doctor who would cater to your desires.

I don't know of any problems with a Korean market. At this market do they do things that aren't in accord with Biblical teaching? I have some friends who are Korean and share my beliefs in the Bible.

 

I appreciate that you did not directly call me a bigot. However in an earlier post you did say

Dictionaries seem to have slight differences,but one thing common to all definitions of bigotry I've seen is this:intolerance.In my opinion,a bigot is someone who derives a sense of superiority from believing that s/he is a member of some elite group that is superior to other groups. Bigotry is the all-encompassing term for such things as racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.
There can be no doubt that there are ways of interpreting scripture that are absolutely wrong.

Most certainly true,may I ask you how this could be interpreted to be anything but intolerent and bigoted: Leviticus 18:22"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination."

 

Or this:Exodus 22:20 "He who sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed." If this commandment is obeyed, then the four billion people who do not believe in the biblical god must be killed.

 

One more:Exodus 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

 

There seems to be no way around the fact that these commandments are intolerant to say the least.

Are you saying that this was not intended to show that those who are intollerant of others are in common with bigots? It did seem that way.

Posted
Are you saying that this was not intended to show that those who are intolerant of others are in common with bigots? It did seem that way.
Let me state for the record my intention was not to accuse you of being a bigot,I was however stating that I think the Bible has many bigoted passages.I have close friends and family who are Christians,and show no signs of bigotry.I don't think Christian= bigot.Still I have a problem understanding how a Christian deals with passages(like the ones I've mentioned) that,to me,are clealy bigoted.

 

I wouldn't see a doctor who might have issues with my religious beliefs. If you didn't want to have a particular procedure done on you, you too would seek out a doctor who would cater to your desires.
I probably wouldn't see a doctor who might have issues with my religious beliefs either,given the choice.But that is beside the point.A Hindu doctor may or may not have issues with your religion,I'm asking if you would reject the idea of seeing a Hindu doctor simply because he is Hindu.
I don't know of any problems with a Korean market. At this market do they do things that aren't in accord with Biblical teaching?I have some friends who are Korean and share my beliefs in the Bible.

I have Korean friends who are Christian too.Bad example.I guess I was wondering If you would frequent a non-Christian shop.Not recognizing "The One True God" is a sin,and not in accordance with Biblical teaching.(I can site scripture if you wish.)

 

I readily admit I despise much of what the Bible says,but I don't hate all Christians or think they are all bigots.And from what little I know of you I do not think you are a bigot.

 

Can I ask you again:

If someone of a the Islamic faith didn't want to associate with those who choose to go against what the Koran teaches,do you think s/he is intolerent?A bigot? Would you be offended if they didn't want to hang out with you simple because you're Christian,and in their honest opinion,not in accordance with God's wishes?

Posted

Well, I have so say. I have known a couple of muslims from college, and they didn't act that way. I can't particularly say they were devout, so that I probably the reason why.

I would accept their beliefs and thank them for their honest opinion. This would not stop me from having discussions with them if they were to allow it, but I recognize their right to their beliefs no matter how wrong I feel them to be.

The point of the matter is that I too would not wish to associate with someone who felt that way. However, I have and continue to have to live within a world that is not just those whom I choose to associate with. It is a necessity to me to provide for myself and my congregation. How else would I be able to communicate my ideas with you.

I am sure that there are those who are Hindu on this very site. Perhaps I have had a discussion with them. I have known those from my physics days that were also Hindu. They again were not the most devout, however, I recognized who and what they were and worked with them as was necessary.

Posted

My household was never religious, although my mother called herself (and us) Christian. This of course did not mean that our house was Christian-like. By the time I was in high school, I was so desperate for a "family", that I converted to LDS (Mormonism). I spent all of high school, studying scripture, and believing desperately that someone "up there" loved me. As I grew up, I began to see flaws in those teachings, and ultimately left the Church. I have 4 sons, ranging in ages from 17 to 3. I currently am a Pagan, as is my oldest son. My 15 year old, wholeheartedly believes in Christ and Christianity. My 9 year old could care less, although when asked, he'll say that his god is Sett, an Egyptian belief. My 3 year old attends with me. My husband has his own beliefs, which are simply his. We all accept each other's beliefs (or lack thereof), and get along pretty well. We do celebrate Pagan, Christian and Jewish holidays, simply because that is our history and tradition. I believe that honoring your family comes before all else. As far as the question "should a child be allowed to read the bible?"--I have allowed my children to read it, and actually studied with them so they could have their OWN understanding of it. The only issue I have (with any religion) is blind faith. If you tell me you have read something, and it makes sense to you, great. However, if you tell me that you believe something because it was what you've been told, that I have issue with. I believe we are all here to use the gifts we have to learn, and interpret for ourselves.

As a side note, we live in a very Christian community. It has become an issue, simply because people expect you to be Christian, and if you're not, well they just aren't very sure how to take that. Our Belief system has raised eyebrows from all directions, however, it works for us. As far as I am concerned, that's all that matters.

Shannon

Posted

Interesting mix. I come from a Family with few definite beliefs religious wise, not counting my father and all that side of the family, as they really are inconsquential. They are all strongly and beligerently intolerantist, if you believe something they don't then you are a heathen and below them.

 

As stark contrast, my Mother is a Buddist (philosophical, not so much Religious), my grandmother was Johrei (something like Shinto meets Taoism, religion.), My grandfather has never really talked to me about what he believes so I am unsure. My great Grandmother is Baptist Christian. My aunt is somthing else, completely unclassifiable. I am one who is of the one that is I am, Seer, Shaman, Seeker, Journeyman, and Scientist.

 

My mom's best friend is Pagan or Wiccan, I can't remember. I'm pretty sure it's Pagan, cause she went to a Pagan festible. She's really cool. My great grandmother, on my grandfather's side, was a theologist and Astrologist. She studied Religious Texts, like the Torah and the Bible. She was also really cool.

 

So I've had an interesting Philosophical/Religious/Science, Truth-Seeking Education.

Posted

KickAssClown,

Good to hear we aren't the only ones! Your mom sounds like a really interesting person. BTW, her friend--all wiccans are pagan, but not all pagans are wiccan:hihi: . How's that for a twister this early in the am (here anyway). Anyhoo--how did your mom deal with your questions when you were young? Do you agree with those choices now? I am just curious...as a mom, I really care how children are taught.

Shannon

Posted

My mom and my Grandma, particularly my grandmother, took an interest in teaching me religion and Spirituallity.

 

Mostly it wasn't so much, I ask a question and then they give an answer, it would be I ask a question, purpose an answer and then we would discuss other possible answers and interpetations.

 

My dad was more of the "authoritarian" type. He never admits that he might be wrong.

 

My mom really didn't discuss such things with me until I was 10 or 11. She mainly made available various texts and let my grandma handle most of the difficult religious things, as my mom isn't all that religious, and my grandma is so my mom felt it was best that someone without a bias against taught me, and whom was understanding and accepting of many types of religion.

Posted
I agree to that last statement. I hope it has raised awareness. I do think indifference has an effect on children. I'm sure that there are many things that, since my parents took no interest in them, I likewise took no interest in. Unfortunately every action or non-action has an effect on the development of a child.

 

Yes I have had harrassment training. Yes I have been harrassed. Yes, I was probably the primary target when I was younger. However, I know of children who also made fun of catholics when they talked about their first communion. I do not recall what the religious views of all the children were. It simply did not bother me to be made fun of, as much as your daughter's encounter bothered you. I expected it because my parents had discussed the issues with me in advance.

 

It did not bother you? How nice for you. So because you were not bothered by the harrassment no one else should be?

 

I don't think I should drop the analogy about the sex offender. It definitely raises red flags for most people, but the truth of it is, some people feel like they don't have to associate with others because of their feelings on any number of issues.

In some foreign countries, people who profess to be of my religion are treated worse than sex offenders. They are beaten, jailed, harassed continually, have their homes broken into and their businesses destroyed. And this isn't being done by other regular citizens but by police officers.

 

Do you see the hypocracy of your two above statements? Is it ok for you/others to harass my child? Is it ok for these people to be harassed in other countries? No, religious harassment is not OK.

 

Again, they have every right to ask questions of anyone. To raise points of contrast, and to not associate with those who have differing opinions.

As you have mentioned their are laws protecting children from religious harassment by teachers, by adults and parents outside of the school, and in some extreme cases even by kids in the school.

This does not extend to every word and act by a child, but only when it is deemed that those acts create an environment where a reasonable person would not be able to have a normal school experience. This would include bullying, but not of the slight kind, where a child is made fun of for their views. I don't know all the specifics of your childs experiences, and as I said the kids who did these things were most likely in the wrong.

 

While not being allowed to harrass someone who does not follow the Bible may infringe upon a believers idealisms, the fact is this:

 

Religious Persuasion Versus Religious Harassment

Students have the right to speak to, and attempt to persuade, their peers about religious topics just as they do with regard to political topics. But school officials should intercede to stop student religious speech if it turns into religious harassment aimed at a student or a small group of students. While it is constitutionally permissible for a student to approach another and issue an invitation to attend church, repeated invitations in the face of a request to stop constitute harassment. Where this line is to be drawn in particular cases will depend on the age of the students and other circumstances.

From this link:

http://www.ed.gov/Speeches/04-1995/prayer.html

 

You do not seem to understand that those who do not want to hear about such things have that right to be free from hearing about this in the school setting. Public schools DO have an obligation to maintain an enviroment of harrassment free experience for ALL the students regardless of their religious persuasion.

 

Maybe your sex offender analogy was more correct than I had thought. After all, a rapist is someone who cannot take No for an answer. And this is the approach that was taken when my child was confronted with religious harrassment and the issues of hell and damnation (just say no). As I stated before, these children did not take no for an answer.

Posted

You presume that all of these children's parents actually were gleaning the correct information from the bible. While later in this paragraph you say not to cite this... it remains a fact that people because of different experiences and backgrounds interpret the scriptures differently.

Not all religions teach hell-fire and damnation. Given that there is a lot of violence in the bible, the underlying theme of it is love. It refers to God as love. It isn't logical to think that someone who loves you would want you to burn in hell for all eternity. They were misinformed.

 

And you presume they were not. It doesnt matter whether they are right or wrong with these idealisms they hold and were taught, what matters is it was used to justify bigotry and harrassment against another human being that continued on for several years (in varied degrees) because that individual held a very different idea on religion. You assume they were misinformed. You talk about the underlying theme of love, but that only applies to the believer of this particular religion. That is the big stick of Christianity whether you believe this way or not.

Their words were a direct result of dogmatic thinking, a line of thought that the bible condemns. Someone in the church told them that the bible said this, but none of them bothered to examine the other 2304820583084 scriptures that discuss "hell". This sort of thing burns my biscuits as well.

God is being slandered because of all the "well intentioned idiots" who are running around trying to garner support for him. Christians by and large are one of the most self righteous groups, looking down on others for their shortcomings.

The bible also speaks about them, and none too fondly. In fact Jesus himself referred to those as vipers and the like. (Quite the insult in his day I suspect *laughs*)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman_fallacy

 

 

 

 

While I'm sure that all of this has left you with a less than favorable impression of Christians as a whole, rest assured there are many like myself who do NOT share the same self righteous attitude that Christendom today is sporting.

 

Actually, the point is this has left my child with a less than favorable impression of Christians as a whole.

 

 

Either way you're separating yourselves, intolerance can work both ways. Once again this depends on the people involved.

With that being said, I hope this hasn't come off as preachy.

Regards,

CE

 

Not using this particular flavor of religion does not automatically create intolerance. Just as not using the Qu'ran as a teaching/parenting tool does not create intolerance of muslims. Personal experience creates mistrust rather than intolerance in this example.

Posted

What does the world have to offer?

 

I have nothing against anyone reading The Bible as I believe in free will and growth of individual consciousness through exploration i.e. choice (Children read horror comics and watch war movies after all and what is censored becomes more frightening because it is censored as the mind asks why: It's like volunteering for something, which is adult responsibility, versus someone trying to force you to do something (If it's that good, why aren't 'they' doing it?). On top of that you have the forbidden fruit syndrome - tell kids they can't have something and it becomes desirable and hidden (out in the open and discussed like an adult, allows children to grow up feeling appreciated rather than marginalised: "You're just a child!" (and will stay that way if I can help it)). As for what does the world have to offer? Choice. The Bible isn't the only opinion on how to run your life and if someone comes back to it, you can always think of them as Prodigal sons.

  • 8 months later...
Posted

If you are so concerned with your children seeing violence, murder, sodomy, or anything concidered "morally corrupt" within the Bible, then I suggest before you brandish your opinion about how bad it is, that you turn off cable and buy your kids 500 Disney movies. Nearly any show these days can cover everything "wrong" with the Bible in a matter of 10 minutes.

Posted

TOP TEN REASONS

 

the Bible, and reasons why not to allow kids to read it...

 

10. You're afraid it might be true.

9. You're not afraid at all ..."I ain't skeered!"; merely foolish.

8. You're trying to perpetuate your own lack of faith.

7. They might discover you're an idiot.

6. You just can't face the truth, and you don't want them to either.

5. A religious person let you down in the past and you hold a grudge.

4. You're mad at God because you think He let you down.

3. You don't care if the whole world goes to hell.

2. You can' get the log out of your eye long enough to read it yourself.

 

... And the number one reason why not to allow kids to read the bible...

1. Your friend satan said it not to.:)

Posted

I apologize for the long post, but here it is. Source: Whywontgodhealamputees.com.

 

The most ridiculous, evil, disgusting Bible verses:

 

 

* Psalms 137:8-9 - 8 O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us 9 he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

 

 

* Genesis 38:8-10 - "8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also."

 

 

* Exodus 35:2 – "2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death."

 

 

* Deuteronomy 21:18-21 – "18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid."

 

 

* Leviticus 20:13 – "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

 

 

* Deuteronomy 25:11-12 – "11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity."

 

 

* Deuteronomy 20:10-16 – "10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. 16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes."

 

 

* Deuteronomy 22:13-21 – "13 If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her 14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, "I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity," 15 then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. 16 The girl's father will say to the elders, "I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. 17 Now he has slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is the proof of my daughter's virginity." Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, 18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him. 19 They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver a and give them to the girl's father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives. 20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you."

 

 

* Isaiah 13:13-16 – "13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger. 14 Like a hunted gazelle, like sheep without a shepherd, each will return to his own people, each will flee to his native land. 15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. 16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives ravished."

 

 

* Numbers 31:14-18 – "14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. 15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

 

 

* Leviticus 21:17-24 - 17 "Say to Aaron: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the offerings made to the LORD by fire. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the LORD, who makes them holy.' " 24 So Moses told this to Aaron and his sons and to all the Israelites.

 

 

* Luke 14:26 – "26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple."

 

 

Slavery (See also Why does God love slavery?)

 

All of us know that slavery is abhorrent. Slavery involves the loss of free will and the subjugation of one person to another. Slavery is a form of imprisonment. Slavery turns human beings into a type of livestock that can be bought and sold as the property of another person. No human being would want to be enslaved. This is what makes the concept of slavery so repugnant. It is surprising, therefore, to find that God embraces slavery wholeheartedly. The Bible is so supportive of slavery, in fact, that it was frequently used as a justification for American slavery prior to the Civil War.

 

* Exodus 21:20-21 – "20 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."

 

 

* Colossians 3:22-24 – "22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving."

 

 

* Ephesians 6:5 - "5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."

 

 

* 1 Peter 2:13 - "13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority."

 

 

* 1 Peter 2:18 - "18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."

 

 

* 1 Timothy 6:1 - "1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered."

 

 

Women (See also Why is God so sexist?)

 

* 1 Timothy 2:11-12 – "11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."

 

 

* Matthew 25:1 - "1 At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom."

 

 

* 1 Corinthians 11:3-10 - "3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,a since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head."

 

 

* 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 - "33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

 

 

* Genesis 19:4-8- "4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.' 6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, 'No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.'"

 

 

* Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - "28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

 

 

Killing Children (See also Why does God massacre millions of children?)

 

* Exodus 12:28-30 - "28 The Israelites did just what the LORD commanded Moses and Aaron. 29 At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well. 30 Pharaoh and all his officials and all the Egyptians got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for there was not a house without someone dead."

 

 

* Isaiah 13:15-18 - "15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. 16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives ravished. 17 See, I will stir up against them the Medes, who do not care for silver and have no delight in gold. 18 Their bows will strike down the young men; they will have no mercy on infants nor will they look with compassion on children."

 

 

* Jeremiah 49:20-21 - " 20 Therefore, hear what the LORD has planned against Edom, what he has purposed against those who live in Teman: The young of the flock will be dragged away; he will completely destroy their pasture because of them. 21 At the sound of their fall the earth will tremble; their cry will resound to the Red Sea."

 

 

* Hosea 13:16 - "16 The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."

 

 

* Deuteronomy 3:1-7 - "1 Next we turned and went up along the road toward Bashan, and Og king of Bashan with his whole army marched out to meet us in battle at Edrei. 2 The LORD said to me, "Do not be afraid of him, for I have handed him over to you with his whole army and his land. Do to him what you did to Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon." 3 So the LORD our God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We struck them down, leaving no survivors. 4 At that time we took all his cities. There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take from them—the whole region of Argob, Og's kingdom in Bashan. 5 All these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars, and there were also a great many unwalled villages. 6 We completely destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying every city—men, women and children. 7 But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves." (They massacred all the men, women and children in 60 cities at God's request.)

 

 

Sacrifice (See also Why does God love animal sacrifice?)

 

There is no need to beat around the bush: We all know, without question, that animal sacrifice is an absurdity. Sacrificing and burning an animal on an altar does not have any effect on events in our world. But then we examine the Bible — the holy word of God and the single authoritative source of all information about Jesus — and find passages like these:

 

* Leviticus 1 - "1 The LORD called to Moses and spoke to him from the Tent of Meeting. He said, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When any of you brings an offering to the LORD, bring as your offering an animal from either the herd or the flock. 3 " 'If the offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he is to offer a male without defect. He must present it at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting so that it a will be acceptable to the LORD. 4 He is to lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him. 5 He is to slaughter the young bull before the LORD, and then Aaron's sons the priests shall bring the blood and sprinkle it against the altar on all sides at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 6 He is to skin the burnt offering and cut it into pieces. 7 The sons of Aaron the priest are to put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire. 8 Then Aaron's sons the priests shall arrange the pieces, including the head and the fat, on the burning wood that is on the altar. 9 He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to burn all of it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 10 " 'If the offering is a burnt offering from the flock, from either the sheep or the goats, he is to offer a male without defect. 11 He is to slaughter it at the north side of the altar before the LORD, and Aaron's sons the priests shall sprinkle its blood against the altar on all sides. 12 He is to cut it into pieces, and the priest shall arrange them, including the head and the fat, on the burning wood that is on the altar. 13 He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to bring all of it and burn it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 14 " 'If the offering to the LORD is a burnt offering of birds, he is to offer a dove or a young pigeon. 15 The priest shall bring it to the altar, wring off the head and burn it on the altar; its blood shall be drained out on the side of the altar. 16 He is to remove the crop with its contents b and throw it to the east side of the altar, where the ashes are. 17 He shall tear it open by the wings, not severing it completely, and then the priest shall burn it on the wood that is on the fire on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD."

 

 

* Leviticus 8:14-24 - "14 He then presented the bull for the sin offering, and Aaron and his sons laid their hands on its head. 15 Moses slaughtered the bull and took some of the blood, and with his finger he put it on all the horns of the altar to purify the altar. He poured out the rest of the blood at the base of the altar. So he consecrated it to make atonement for it. 16 Moses also took all the fat around the inner parts, the covering of the liver, and both kidneys and their fat, and burned it on the altar. 17 But the bull with its hide and its flesh and its offal he burned up outside the camp, as the LORD commanded Moses. 18 He then presented the ram for the burnt offering, and Aaron and his sons laid their hands on its head. 19 Then Moses slaughtered the ram and sprinkled the blood against the altar on all sides. 20 He cut the ram into pieces and burned the head, the pieces and the fat. 21 He washed the inner parts and the legs with water and burned the whole ram on the altar as a burnt offering, a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire, as the LORD commanded Moses. 22 He then presented the other ram, the ram for the ordination, and Aaron and his sons laid their hands on its head. 23 Moses slaughtered the ram and took some of its blood and put it on the lobe of Aaron's right ear, on the thumb of his right hand and on the big toe of his right foot. 24 Moses also brought Aaron's sons forward and put some of the blood on the lobes of their right ears, on the thumbs of their right hands and on the big toes of their right feet. Then he sprinkled blood against the altar on all sides."

 

 

* Leviticus 7:28-34 - "28 The LORD said to Moses, 29 "Say to the Israelites: 'Anyone who brings a fellowship offering to the LORD is to bring part of it as his sacrifice to the LORD. 30 With his own hands he is to bring the offering made to the LORD by fire; he is to bring the fat, together with the breast, and wave the breast before the LORD as a wave offering. 31 The priest shall burn the fat on the altar, but the breast belongs to Aaron and his sons. 32 You are to give the right thigh of your fellowship offerings to the priest as a contribution. 33 The son of Aaron who offers the blood and the fat of the fellowship offering shall have the right thigh as his share. 34 From the fellowship offerings of the Israelites, I have taken the breast that is waved and the thigh that is presented and have given them to Aaron the priest and his sons as their regular share from the Israelites.' ""

 

 

Killing, torturing non-believers

 

The Bible is clear — people who do not believe in God and Jesus are to be killed and/or tortured:

 

* Deuteronomy 17:2-5 - "2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death."

 

 

* Deuteronomy 17:12 - "12 Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the Lord your God must die. In this way you will purge the evil from Israel."

 

 

* 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 - "12 They entered into a covenant to seek the LORD, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul. 13 All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

 

 

* Deuteronomy 13:12-19 - "12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, a both its people and its livestock. 16 Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt. 17 None of those condemned things b shall be found in your hands, so that the LORD will turn from his fierce anger; he will show you mercy, have compassion on you, and increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your forefathers, 18 because you obey the LORD your God, keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes."

 

 

* Deuteronomy 13:6-11 - "6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again."

 

 

* Leviticus 24:13-16 - "13 Then the LORD said to Moses: 14 "Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: 'If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death."

 

 

* Exodus 22:20 - "20 "Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed."

 

 

* 1 Corinthians 16:22 - "22 If anyone does not love the Lord—a curse be on him."

 

 

* Mark 16:14-16 - "14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. 15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

 

 

* Revelation 9:1-6 - "1 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them."

 

 

* Revelation 21:1-8 - "1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." 5 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." 6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." "

 

 

Disgusting

 

* 1 Samuel 18:25-27 - "25 Saul replied, "Say to David, 'The king wants no other price for the bride than a hundred Philistine foreskins, to take revenge on his enemies.' " Saul's plan was to have David fall by the hands of the Philistines. 26 When the attendants told David these things, he was pleased to become the king's son-in-law. So before the allotted time elapsed, 27 David and his men went out and killed two hundred Philistines. He brought their foreskins and presented the full number to the king so that he might become the king's son-in-law. Then Saul gave him his daughter Michal in marriage."

 

 

* Ezekiel 23:11-21 - "11 Her sister Oholibah saw this, yet in her lust and prostitution she was more depraved than her sister. 12 She too lusted after the Assyrians—governors and commanders, warriors in full dress, mounted horsemen, all handsome young men. 13 I saw that she too defiled herself; both of them went the same way. 14 But she carried her prostitution still further. She saw men portrayed on a wall, figures of Chaldeans a portrayed in red, 15 with belts around their waists and flowing turbans on their heads; all of them looked like Babylonian chariot officers, natives of Chaldea. b 16 As soon as she saw them, she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea. 17 Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust. 18 When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her nakedness, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. 19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled."

 

 

* Judges 3:15-23 - "15 Again the Israelites cried out to the LORD, and he gave them a deliverer—Ehud, a left-handed man, the son of Gera the Benjamite. The Israelites sent him with tribute to Eglon king of Moab. 16 Now Ehud had made a double-edged sword about a foot and a half long, which he strapped to his right thigh under his clothing. 17 He presented the tribute to Eglon king of Moab, who was a very fat man. 18 After Ehud had presented the tribute, he sent on their way the men who had carried it. 19 At the idols near Gilgal he himself turned back and said, "I have a secret message for you, O king." The king said, "Quiet!" And all his attendants left him. 20 Ehud then approached him while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his summer palace and said, "I have a message from God for you." As the king rose from his seat, 21 Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king's belly. 22 Even the handle sank in after the blade, which came out his back. Ehud did not pull the sword out, and the fat closed in over it. 23 Then Ehud went out to the porch ; he shut the doors of the upper room behind him and locked them."

 

 

* Judges 4:21 - "21 But Jael, Heber's wife, picked up a tent peg and a hammer and went quietly to him while he lay fast asleep, exhausted. She drove the peg through his temple into the ground, and he died."

 

 

* Psalm 58:10 - 10 The righteous will be glad when they are avenged, when they bathe their feet in the blood of the wicked.

 

 

* Genesis 19:30-36 - "30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father." 33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. 34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. 36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father."

 

 

* Judges 19:25-30 - "25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. 26 At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. 27 When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. 28 He said to her, "Get up; let's go." But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home. 29 When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel. 30 Everyone who saw it said, "Such a thing has never been seen or done, not since the day the Israelites came up out of Egypt. Think about it! Consider it! Tell us what to do!""

 

 

* Joshua 10:22-26 - "22 Joshua said, "Open the mouth of the cave and bring those five kings out to me." 23 So they brought the five kings out of the cave—the kings of Jerusalem, Hebron, Jarmuth, Lachish and Eglon. 24 When they had brought these kings to Joshua, he summoned all the men of Israel and said to the army commanders who had come with him, "Come here and put your feet on the necks of these kings." So they came forward and placed their feet on their necks. 25 Joshua said to them, "Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged. Be strong and courageous. This is what the LORD will do to all the enemies you are going to fight." 26 Then Joshua struck and killed the kings and hung them on five trees, and they were left hanging on the trees until evening."

 

 

* Matthew 5:29-30 - "29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell."

 

 

* 2 Chronicles 21:18-19 - "18 After all this, the LORD afflicted Jehoram with an incurable disease of the bowels. 19 In the course of time, at the end of the second year, his bowels came out because of the disease, and he died in great pain. His people made no fire in his honor, as they had for his fathers."

 

 

* 2 Kings 9:33-35 - "33 "Throw her down!" Jehu said. So they threw her down, and some of her blood spattered the wall and the horses as they trampled her underfoot. 34 Jehu went in and ate and drank. "Take care of that cursed woman," he said, "and bury her, for she was a king's daughter." 35 But when they went out to bury her, they found nothing except her skull, her feet and her hands."

 

 

* Numbers 25:1-9 - "1 While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women, 2 who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate and bowed down before these gods. 3 So Israel joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor. And the LORD's anger burned against them. 4 The LORD said to Moses, "Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the LORD, so that the LORD's fierce anger may turn away from Israel." 5 So Moses said to Israel's judges, "Each of you must put to death those of your men who have joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor." 6 Then an Israelite man brought to his family a Midianite woman right before the eyes of Moses and the whole assembly of Israel while they were weeping at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 7 When Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, saw this, he left the assembly, took a spear in his hand 8 and followed the Israelite into the tent. He drove the spear through both of them—through the Israelite and into the woman's body. Then the plague against the Israelites was stopped; 9 but those who died in the plague numbered 24,000."

 

 

* Judges 9:51-54 - "51 Inside the city, however, was a strong tower, to which all the men and women—all the people of the city—fled. They locked themselves in and climbed up on the tower roof. 52 Abimelech went to the tower and stormed it. But as he approached the entrance to the tower to set it on fire, 53 a woman dropped an upper millstone on his head and cracked his skull. 54 Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, "Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can't say, 'A woman killed him.' " So his servant ran him through, and he died."

Posted
Many read the bible but miss the message entirely, no matter what age.

 

What is the message?

 

I am reading the Book of Job right now, for reference for something I am working on, but it seems to me there are many, many messages, some enlightening and some frightening.

Posted
I apologize for the long post, but here it is. Source: Whywontgodhealamputees.com.

 

The most ridiculous, evil, disgusting Bible verses:

 

"""

 

* Judges 9:51-54 - "51 Inside the city, however, was a strong tower, to which all the men and women—all the people of the city—fled. They locked themselves in and climbed up on the tower roof. 52 Abimelech went to the tower and stormed it. But as he approached the entrance to the tower to set it on fire, 53 a woman dropped an upper millstone on his head and cracked his skull. 54 Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, "Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can't say, 'A woman killed him.' " So his servant ran him through, and he died."

So, out of over 3000 pages you could only find 57 results. In all actuality that is quite sad.

I cannot remember one book that we have read in school that does not have a controversial conflict once every 50 or so pages, they are what keep you interested. Why the double standard?

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