Biology, Mars, Indigenous Vs Earth

[belovelife]

if we used a laser to melt the ice on mars and create a hyropowerplant while increaing the amount of liquid water on mars, then,

 

what are the chances that there is bacteria or fungus there that would grow,

 

and, do you think it would be a biological battle between our earth species and the martian species?

[Moontanman]

if we used a laser to melt the ice on mars and create a hyropowerplant while increaing the amount of liquid water on mars, then,

 

what are the chances that there is bacteria or fungus there that would grow,

 

Bacteria, i would say 100%, The existence of methane on mars would seem to indicate these are methanogens there, fungi is a bit less likely in my mind but we might be able to transplant lichen

 

and, do you think it would be a biological battle between our earth species and the martian species?

 

 

Possibly but Earth life would prevail, didn't you watch war of the worlds???

[belovelife]

yeah, but the potential to turn into raith like in stargate atlantis

[Moontanman]

yeah, but the potential to turn into raith like in stargate atlantis

 

 

Now you are just talking silly stuff belovelife....

[belovelife]

lol

 

yes a little, but remember i think evolution partially based on miniature changes to the dna based on foreghn

 

bodies interacting

like say you got a virus, that virus while in you body

 

slightly changes your dna

 

so after you have the virus, your offspring might be different

 

just a hypothesis, not bassed on much but pondering

 

it may be possible, mabe not

 

i don't know for sure

[Moontanman]

lol

 

yes a little, but remember i think evolution partially based on miniature changes to the dna based on foreghn

 

bodies interacting

like say you got a virus, that virus while in you body

 

slightly changes your dna

 

so after you have the virus, your offspring might be different

 

just a hypothesis, not bassed on much but pondering

 

it may be possible, mabe not

 

i don't know for sure

 

 

Actually there is some reason to think that virus' become part of some animals genomes and contribute to some change...

[JMJones0424]

Actually there is some reason to think that virus' become part of some animals genomes and contribute to some change...

 

Not only some reason to think, but it's a pretty well established fact that a huge portion of our genome consists of endogenous retroviruses, or ERVs for short. The vast majority of this is simply junk DNA, and when it isn't, the effects are almost always detrimental and selected against. This is a relatively new field that I can't even pretend to fully understand, but I find it fascinating. If you do as well, you may enjoy reading the erv blog written by a graduate student doing work in the field.

 

In this post, Abbie Smith addressess the question of how many ERVs we have in our genome. The answer is that we don't really know yet, however, in a study of 18 different mice strains, they found 34,773 ERVs and that occurred more frequently on the Y chromosome than they would have if it was completely random. Also, ERVs are usually in the junk DNA, backwards, and generally don't do anything useful.

[Moontanman]

Thanks for clarifying that JMJones, I was aware of the research you cited, I was lazy... I remember reading many many years ago about either rabbit gene sequences being found in a turtle or turtle genes being found in a rabbit, i can't remember now which way it was but the conclusion was that virus' were somehow to blame, since then it has been well established that virus' have an influence on genomes and in some cases a profound influence.

 

 

On the other hand i have my doubts about Belovelife's Wraith idea with Earth and Mars life. IMHO virus' are far more of a danger to Earth life on Mars than Martian bacteria but not due to them suddenly changing a human into something else but many generations from now such Martian genetic material could be a part of the human genome... the results of this cannot be known at this time...

[belovelife]

mabe we will be able to adapt to the martian atmoshere

 

as our life grows there, mabe so do we adapt together

[JMJones0424]

Significant changes to the atmosphere of Mars would need to be made before terrestrial life more complex than bacteria could survive there. The Earth's atmospheric pressure is about 150 times more than the average pressure on the surface of Mars. Mar's atmosphere is also 95% carbon dioxide.

[belovelife]

i understand that, but as it warms, it will probably release more gasses

 

if we terraform using solar energy , then the atmoshpere will increase a little,

 

water will melt also

plus, the longer we are there, the more advanced we get,

 

it will be comfortable,

 

but, while we farm, these micro-organisms might enter our food chain

 

which may cause martian genetic variation

 

i ponder, if it will allow us to adapt, or cause us to degrade

 

but as we settle there, it seems inevitable

 

even if its only partial dna floating around that was never connected to life

 

but as it touches life, it bonds and integrates into the system

 

then again, any time we breath in dust this is a possibility

[maddog]

On the other hand i have my doubts about Belovelife's Wraith idea with Earth and Mars life. IMHO virus' are far more of a danger to Earth life on Mars than Martian bacteria but not due to them suddenly changing a human into something else but many generations from now such Martian genetic material could be a part of the human genome... the results of this cannot be known at this time...

With the premise that some form of life exists on mars (Moontanman's guess of bacteria type is a good one) there is a presumption (hidden) in the previous discussion. Even if we presume that both of these lifeforms (ours & Mars) were Carbon-based (for the moment suppose so), it would be unfair to just assume that genetics mechanisms would be even similar.

 

For the moment we may suppose that Mars life even use a similar type of DNA/RNA of some form (neglecting consideration on skeletons based upon other than Phosphorus), it might be that Mars life uses different base pairs or even more base pairs than our four (A,G, C, T). I have searched and there are 20 Amines that can be considered (others do not work as well as our 4). Maybe you could select 8, or 12 or so. It would unclear what would turn out in hybridization of mixing the two.

 

In terms of what would survive that hazards of Mars, the solution is quite trivial. Any indigenous life on Mars has already adapted there, so their survivability is definitely more likely than anything we would bring. Though the model changes when as Moontanman implied that maybe we change the environment of Mars (terraforming) first. Then there would be lots of dependencies (What if's).

 

maddog

Edited August 7, 2012 by maddog

[CraigD]

like say you got a virus, that virus while in you body slightly changes your dna

Actually there is some reason to think that virus' become part of some animals genomes and contribute to some change...

Not only some reason to think, but it's a pretty well established fact that a huge portion of our genome consists of endogenous retroviruses, or ERVs for short.

...

Though it has nothing to do with terraforming Mars and possible indigenous Martian life, I’d be remiss as a proselytizer of SF if I didn’t mention the wonderful fictional treatment the idea that endogenous retroviruses not only are significant in human evolution, but are dramatically so, in Greg Bear’s Nebula award-winning 1999 Novel Darwin’s Radio and its 2003 sequel, Darwin’s Children.

 

I’ve long dreamed of a writing (or, in keeping with my lazy nature, inspiring someone to write) a SF treatment of this idea fused with a the plot style of Bradbury’s classic The Martian Chronicles, in which near future human colonists of a domed or terraformed Mars find themselves being, with each generation, transformed by sophisticated, long-dormant Martian retroviruses into more-or-less BEMs.

 

Both ideas are to different degrees nearly fantastically speculative, but fun and not entirely scientifically meritless.