Moontanman Posted July 28, 2012 Report Posted July 28, 2012 Another opinion... http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/journalism/ufo97.html Quote
Aethelwulf Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) I'm not sue that i am willing to go that far away from the main phenomena, abductions and such are impossible to confirm with any data what so ever and smack of delusions at best. just saying the objects are made of elements that do not occur on the earth is horse feathers, all naturally occurring elements are found on the earth, it is interesting they never identify these elements... This is not unusual, if something gets inserted into the body deep enough it will indeed be surrounded by tissue. No they did not say this, they said it was similar to meteorites and not knowing what it is doesn't mean it is extra terrestrial... How can they name something which is unknown? Also, Doctor Leir seems to have explained that foreign objects in the body are usually expelled in time or a puss develops around the object with inflammation. What they explain is that for the body to accept the object is unusual. I am not a medical doctor so I can't varify that for you. Edited July 28, 2012 by Aethelwulf Quote
Aethelwulf Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Posted July 28, 2012 I have just read your page - all very well, a filling. However, what about the anomalous object found in the patients body which have off high frequency waves? Then as soon as the object was removed, it no longer displayed this... Again, I am not in the slightest trained in the medical sciences, but for an object to give off these high frequency waves and then stop, tells me the body was producing enough energy, feeding this device if you will. I think it was already explained for it to give off these high frequency waves, there needed to be an energy source. Do you not think it is probable that this is the role of the nerve endings? Quote
Aethelwulf Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Posted July 28, 2012 Also, it's very easy for you to say ''well said this unknown element wasn't named'' (even if they could) but you are forgetting it was sent to Los Alamos. A very high reputable laboratory. Quote
Aethelwulf Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Who actually wrote that article you posted anyway? There is no name of the author. NO way to to actually back up any of the statements. Also, the element composition for your usual suspects in doctor Leirs examples - these ones in comparison seems a little strange: Mercury 40%, Tin 30% and Silver 16%. Ignoring all the other elements these three amount to 47%, 35% and 18%. Dental amalgam varies considerably in its exact composition but is typically 50% mercury with the other 50% being silver and tin, in varying proportions. Where is the nickle? I am sure tin was involved in Leir's examples. But pretty much typical of fillings mind you. Which is why I think your page you linked to is completely unrelated to Leir's work - and which is why Los Alamos tested it and found it to be of the same material meteorites are made of. Last time I checked, fillings are not made of meteorite stuff!! Edited July 28, 2012 by Aethelwulf Quote
Moontanman Posted July 28, 2012 Report Posted July 28, 2012 Who actually wrote that article you posted anyway? There is no name of the author. NO way to to actually back up any of the statements. Also, the element composition for your usual suspects in doctor Leirs examples - these ones in comparison seems a little strange: Mercury 40%, Tin 30% and Silver 16%. Ignoring all the other elements these three amount to 47%, 35% and 18%. Dental amalgam varies considerably in its exact composition but is typically 50% mercury with the other 50% being silver and tin, in varying proportions. Where is the nickle? I am sure tin was involved in Leir's examples. But pretty much typical of fillings mind you. Which is why I think your page you linked to is completely unrelated to Leir's work - and which is why Los Alamos tested it and found it to be of the same material meteorites are made of. Last time I checked, fillings are not made of meteorite stuff!! Aethelwulf, define meteorite stuff and how it is different than Earth stuff and why if it is similar to meteorite stuff makes it an alien implant? To have this discussion and have the discussion be meaningful we need to limit our topics, if you are going to include all aspect of UFO culture then you will be smothered with some really silly stuff, from the contactee movement of the 50's to sexual abduction by Venusians to Fairies and elves... Where do you draw the line? The implant thing is highly suspect and cannot be confirmed in any way what so ever... The people who make these claims use vague and undefined terms that make any discussion meaningless... JMJones0424 1 Quote
Aethelwulf Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Posted July 28, 2012 Don't start taking this attitude with me. I have already explained that I take abduction cases (with the smallest pinch of salt) - did you miss me stating this? Secondly, of course meteorites can be found on Earth - but some kinds of meteorites are actually very rare. In fact, if you had watched the video without being too much of a skeptic, you would have heard them saying the type of meteorite they had in their possession had only been seen a few times in history! If you are just going to ignore the evidence when it is presented, what kind of discussion is this going to be? Not only that, but you have completely ignored the unknown element detected inside of the fragment as well. If it has been simply made of silver, tin and some mercury, then by all means I would have held my head in shame and admitted that there was nothing to do this. There are some extraordinary claims, apparently backed up with extraordinary evidence, (sumbitted) by one of the most prestigious laboratories in the world. What you are doing, is basing this purely in a simple distrust of abduction cases, which I do sympathize with, since I have little trust for them either - however, in some of these cases, the one's shown in the video, the evidence is compelling. You'd have to be a totally dogmatic scientist to simply ignore evidence which otherwise normally cannot be refuted. This is what you are coming across to me as. Thoth101 1 Quote
Aethelwulf Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Not only this, but... Do you know what I find ironic about your quick dismissal of the evidence? You are somehow placing some kind of ''distrust'' on the presenters of the show, that they are maybe fabricating the evidence. Did you know that three of the scientists shown on the program actually works closely with another investigator you posted in a video very early on in this thread, concerning the Tehran Incident. They actually created a show together, the UFO investigators, or something along those effects. Edited July 28, 2012 by Aethelwulf Quote
Aethelwulf Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Posted July 28, 2012 And do you know what? It was this same team that actually discovered the first set of evidence for the Aurora case - they not only debunked the hoax myths, but they also used their scientific knowledge to uncover the first lot of hard scientific physical evidence for the event actually occurring. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora,_Texas,_UFO_incident So I will warn you about dismissing them off-hand. I've seen them do other work and they are actually respected in the UFO-community. Quote
Moontanman Posted July 28, 2012 Report Posted July 28, 2012 Don't start taking this attitude with me. I have already explained that I take abduction cases (with the smallest pinch of salt) - did you miss me stating this? No I did not and you seem to have no limits as to what you will believe with the tiniest bit of evidence. Secondly, of course meteorites can be found on Earth - but some kinds of meteorites are actually very rare. In fact, if you had watched the video without being too much of a skeptic, you would have heard them saying the type of meteorite they had in their possession had only been seen a few times in history! If you are just going to ignore the evidence when it is presented, what kind of discussion is this going to be? Not only that, but you have completely ignored the unknown element detected inside of the fragment as well. If it has been simply made of silver, tin and some mercury, then by all means I would have held my head in shame and admitted that there was nothing to do this. There are some extraordinary claims, apparently backed up with extraordinary evidence, (sumbitted) by one of the most prestigious laboratories in the world. Do you not understand that there are no unknown elements? By saying it contained something they couldn't identify didn't mean it was extra terrestrial, I watched that video very carefully and it was slanted severely to make it look mysterious when in fact it was not. What you are doing, is basing this purely in a simple distrust of abduction cases, which I do sympathize with, since I have little trust for them either - however, in some of these cases, the one's shown in the video, the evidence is compelling. You'd have to be a totally dogmatic scientist to simply ignore evidence which otherwise normally cannot be refuted. This is what you are coming across to me as. No, I require more evidence than someone making extraordinary claims with less than even ordinary evidence... Not only this, but... Do you know what I find ironic about your quick dismissal of the evidence? You are somehow placing some kind of ''distrust'' on the presenters of the show, that they are maybe fabricating the evidence. Yes i am indeed questioning them, the show they represent is infamous for misleading evidence and hyperbole... Quick dismissal? I search quite a bit to find anything to back them up and found no independent verification what so ever but the very vague and sensational way they word everything makes them very suspect. Just the insinuation that they couldn't figure out parts of it doesn't mean it is extra terrestrial, it just means they didn't have enough data to say what the stuff was... Did you know that three of the scientists shown on the program actually works closely with another investigator you posted in a video very early on in this thread, concerning the Tehran Incident. They actually created a show together, the UFO investigators, or something along those effects. I know the show, you need to show some evidence that the relationship you are describing lends special credence to this report. Just because one of them investigated another sighting doesn't make this one any better... And do you know what? It was this same team that actually discovered the first set of evidence for the Aurora case - they not only debunked the hoax myths, but they also used their scientific knowledge to uncover the first lot of hard scientific physical evidence for the event actually occurring. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora,_Texas,_UFO_incident So I will warn you about dismissing them off-hand. I've seen them do other work and they are actually respected in the UFO-community. I dismiss nothing out of hand but I do not suck everything up out of hand either... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora,_Texas,_UFO_incident Hoax theory Location of Aurora, near Dallas, TexasThe hoax theory is primarily based on historical research performed by Barbara Brammer, a former mayor of Aurora. Her research (featured as part of the UFO Files episode on the incident) revealed that, in the months prior to the alleged crash, Aurora had been beset by a series of tragic incidents. First, the local cotton crop (the major source of town revenue) was destroyed by a boll weevil infestation. Second, a fire on the town's west side claimed several buildings and lives. Shortly after the fire, a spotted fever epidemic hit the town, nearly wiping out the remaining citizens and placing the town under quarantine. Finally, a planned railroad got within 27 miles of Aurora, but never made it into the town. Essentially, Aurora (which claimed nearly 3,000 residents at the time) was in serious danger of dying out; Brammer's research also showed that Haydon was known in the town to be a bit of a jokester, and her conclusion is that Haydon's article was a last-ditch attempt to keep Aurora alive.The theory was further supported by the fact that Haydon never performed any sort of follow-up on the story, not even to report on the alien's burial, which is highly unusual given the significance of the event.Further, in 1979, Time magazine interviewed Etta Pegues who claimed that Haydon had fabricated the entire story, stating that Haydon "wrote it as a joke and to bring interest to Aurora. The railroad bypassed us, and the town was dying."[3] Pegues further claimed that Judge Proctor never operated a windmill on his property, a statement later refuted as part of the UFO Hunters episode. there is considerable evidence that these airship sightings were in fact a joke that various small towns played on each other when the actual news slowed down it was called the silly season back then. Now I know that doesn't mean they were all hoaxes but it does mean that they have to be looked at very closely and so far no real evidence has turned up to support the Aurora crash, nothing, NADA, just some tall tales told by people with an interest in self promotion... Now do we discuss the sexual prowess of venusian woman or do we confine ourselves to incidents that have some actual evidence? Quote
Aethelwulf Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) No I did not and you seem to have no limits as to what you will believe with the tiniest bit of evidence. Do you not understand that there are no unknown elements? By saying it contained something they couldn't identify didn't mean it was extra terrestrial, I watched that video very carefully and it was slanted severely to make it look mysterious when in fact it was not. No, I require more evidence than someone making extraordinary claims with less than even ordinary evidence... Yes i am indeed questioning them, the show they represent is infamous for misleading evidence and hyperbole... Quick dismissal? I search quite a bit to find anything to back them up and found no independent verification what so ever but the very vague and sensational way they word everything makes them very suspect. Just the insinuation that they couldn't figure out parts of it doesn't mean it is extra terrestrial, it just means they didn't have enough data to say what the stuff was... I know the show, you need to show some evidence that the relationship you are describing lends special credence to this report. Just because one of them investigated another sighting doesn't make this one any better... I dismiss nothing out of hand but I do not suck everything up out of hand either... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora,_Texas,_UFO_incident there is considerable evidence that these airship sightings were in fact a joke that various small towns played on each other when the actual news slowed down it was called the silly season back then. Now I know that doesn't mean they were all hoaxes but it does mean that they have to be looked at very closely and so far no real evidence has turned up to support the Aurora crash, nothing, NADA, just some tall tales told by people with an interest in self promotion... Now do we discuss the sexual prowess of venusian woman or do we confine ourselves to incidents that have some actual evidence? ''No I did not and you seem to have no limits as to what you will believe with the tiniest bit of evidence.'' Not true, I am just open minded. I don't dismiss everything just because something about it I don't agree in. Also, there is evidence! His team uncovered evidence, Los Alamos Laboratory uncovered evidence. There is evidence and saying there is none is more of a distortion of the facts than the video you are insidiously trying to mock! ''Yes i am indeed questioning them, the show they represent is infamous for misleading evidence and hyperbole... Quick dismissal? I search quite a bit to find anything to back them up and found no independent verification what so ever but the very vague and sensational way they word everything makes them very suspect. Just the insinuation that they couldn't figure out parts of it doesn't mean it is extra terrestrial, it just means they didn't have enough data to say what the stuff was... '' Whose show? I am not entirely aware of what show Mister Leir was on. However, for the UFO investigation team, I can assure you when it came to the Aurora incident case they investigated, they went to laboratories as well to varify their science. They also uncovered as well - a well which was believed to have been non-existent providing conspiracy claims it was all a hoax. The Hoax theory more or less falls apart. One of the main arguments of the hoax was that there was no well on the property. It turned out there indeed had been a well, which punched a significant hole into that theory. Now, there is actually more evidence which has not been included in the wiki article. Ivestigators went to the area of the alleged crash site. They excavated a very interesting small peice of metal. It had been sent to two laboraties, if my memory serves me right. The final conclusion is that the metal had oxidized in the air first, before cooling as a molten liquid on the ground, which, according to the initial reports is what happened. Furthermore, there was a very interesting property to the metal. It was in fact 95% alluminium and 5% Iron. Now, in the industrial modern world, this is a ''no-no''. What I have been led to believe is that it is very difficult to mix aluminuim and Iron together. To do so, would have to be under laboratory conditions, using very high temperatures. Now, to add to the mystery, keep in mind the analysis of the well. This strange peice of metal found at the crash site fitting the description of all the evidence, was primarily aluminium. The well which was reported to have had much of the debris thrown in (but then later removed) had extremely high traces of aluminium. Starting to add up for you? This is why it is intruiging, who in their right minds would say it isn't? Not to mention the grave stone was stollen and whatever metallic fragmets where in the grave have now been stolen. There is more intruiging evidence that something serious was going on. Such as the alleged body that was buried at the cemetery. In addition, the Aurora Cemetery was again examined. Although the cemetery association still did not permit exhumation, using ground-penetrating radar and photos from prior visits, an unmarked grave was found in the area near other 1890's graves. However, the condition of the grave was badly deteriorated, and the radar could not conclusively prove what type of remains existed.'' from wiki ''MUFON then investigated the Aurora Cemetery, and uncovered a grave marker that appeared to show a flying saucer of some sort, as well as readings from its metal detector. MUFON asked for permission to exhume the site, but the cemetery association declined permission. After the MUFON investigation, the marker mysteriously disappeared from the cemetery and a three-inch pipe was placed into the ground; MUFON's metal detector no longer picked up metal readings from the grave, thus it was presumed that the metal was removed from the grave.'' So in my opinion, you are actually coming across more naive for not keeping an open mind to their claims. There was real science backing up their claims and the point of this? Three of those investigators are working along side Leir. Leir is also a scientist - he doesn't come across as a wackjob - he performs real medical work so it hard to question the integrity of his claims. But you will. ''I know the show, you need to show some evidence that the relationship you are describing lends special credence to this report. Just because one of them investigated another sighting doesn't make this one any better... '' There, I gave quick summery of the evidence above for Aurora. ''there is considerable evidence that these airship sightings were in fact a joke that various small towns played on each other when the actual news slowed down it was called the silly season back then. Now I know that doesn't mean they were all hoaxes but it does mean that they have to be looked at very closely and so far no real evidence has turned up to support the Aurora crash, nothing, NADA, just some tall tales told by people with an interest in self promotion... Now do we discuss the sexual prowess of venusian woman or do we confine ourselves to incidents that have some actual evidence?'' More joke on you then, because I am not interested in Hoax theories. I am talking about real ships which defy your usual conventional modes of transport, of which display unusual aerial capabilities. In fact, what makes the Aurora case most interesting is that the evidence was found - molten alluminium over the alleged crash site - inside the trees as they had grown over the years. Something definitely crashed there, and if you believe now that something happened, it becomes significantly harder to dismiss the reports made back then. This wasn't ''a joke''. Alluminium was very expensive back in those days - I dare say it would have been one elaborate and expensive joke! Edited July 28, 2012 by Aethelwulf Quote
Moontanman Posted July 28, 2012 Report Posted July 28, 2012 Aethelwulf, this is hypography, we require some back up to such extraordinarily claims, you simply claiming what was on a TV show as true is not enough to back up your positive assertion that In Aurora Texas in the 1890's there was a UFO crash. I provided a link that indicated the Aurora crash was a hoax or at least very likely to have been a hoax, the UFO documentary I provided also backed up the link i gave. Now if you can provide links to actual evidence from accredited science to support your assertion i will gladly give it a look but Aurora suffers from many problems not the least of which is that every attempt to actually investigate is has been stymied for no apparent reason other than to keep the hoax going. You claim aluminum iron alloy was found in the well, can you give us some evidence of this other than vague claims in a TV show? I have honestly never heard such metal was found, the initial report claimed there was tons of this metal, where is it? Why was the grave not allowed to be exhumed? The only reason I can see is because the people perpetrating this Hoax knows it would kill the hoax. http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2005/03/aurora-texas-story-that-wont-die.html Now unless you really have actual documented evidence can we either get on to the Venusian women and their sexual exploits (I've heard they are really freaks...) or consider some sightings with actual evidence? Even if the Aurora crash happened all the so called evidence is horse feathers and discussing it is pointless until some of this evidence actually shows up... Aethelwulf, one of the problems with discussing UFOs is that everyone wants to get into the act, it's an easy ticket to pseudo fame to claim something like this... I reminded of a story told by AronRa about sighting a dinosaur walking down his street, a sauropod dinosaur, he could see it and smell it, even touch it as it walked by but when he went in to get his video camera and came back out it was gone, no trace of it, no foot prints no excrement , no wide spread damage such an enormous creature would almost certainly have caused, just his memories of it. one other guy also reported a dinosaur but his description was obviously a theropod dinosaur and it left just as little evidence as his did. (it was not a true story by the way, just his idea behind why extraordinary evidence is required to make an extraordinary claim) Now if this had happened to you could you honestly assert the dinosaur was real? if you are an honest man you would have to admit that even though it was real to you at the time the fact that it left no traces what so ever make it highly suspect as a real experience. The Aurora incident has all the hall marks of a manufactured sighting long after the initial hoax was perpetrated as a joke... to assert it was real would require some evidence and there is every indication that the evidence provided was hoaxed. Now even if it really did happen there is no demonstrable evidence of it so why go on trying to assert it as real when I cannot be verified as such and even the people involved admit to it being a hoax... yet another take on this "crash" http://ufomagazine.forumotion.com/t130-mysterious-1897-ufo-crash-at-aurora-texas http://www.texasescapes.com/Paranormal/Aurora-Incident.htm Aurora Encounter Forum Subject: Aurora, Texas alien I am the great-great-great granddaughter of Finis Dudley Beauchamp. Dudley is the person who donated the family cemetery to the town of Aurora. My great grandmother, Robbie Reynolds, was the 91 year old person that so many of the online articles mention as having been interviewed in the 1970's. As much as I wish the whole story were true, the fact of the matter is, it's not. My great-grandmother and I were very close. She said that the whole story was a hoax, and the original interview included that. I'm not sure how the story went from her saying it was a hoax to the story that her parents went to check out the situation, and wouldn't allow her to go. In your article you mention that most people of the time were illiterate. I know for sure that my great-grandmother and her mother and father could read and write very well. I also know that Robbie Townsend, the woman for whom my great grandmother was named, was a teacher. I know the truth isn't nearly as cool as the stories that have been told for the last 100 years. I just wanted to set the story straight. - Sincerely, Robbie Fields, El Paso, Texas, April 09, 2005 do you seriously want to continue to debate such a weak case? Quote
Aethelwulf Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Posted July 28, 2012 I high level of alluminium was present in the water - not that solid chunks of the stuff had been found. I will tell you what, I will find the investigation for you to watch for yourself. Quote
Aethelwulf Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Posted July 28, 2012 I believe this is the entire investigation: One word of advice, moon. Don't think because you haven't heard of something, you immediately think it's not true. That's just folly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDmDIk75ITc Quote
Aethelwulf Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Posted July 28, 2012 Then perhaps when you have finished watching that, this was one of my most favourite episodes coming up. As I explained in my own work, many astronauts have came forward and NASA has lied about them being previously being interesting to the letter sent to them asking them to ''not make a reopening of UFO investigations'' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smbxC5-9afM&feature=related Quote
Aethelwulf Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Posted July 28, 2012 do you seriously want to continue to debate such a weak case? The quote means nothing to me, only the evidence. I am actually not surprised the Grandmother said this, many people in the very small town of Aurora don't believe it even happened. I am not quick to believe it was a hoax, not when the incident site is littered in the same material they claimed had fallen that day, to the unmarked grave that was found, to the tampering of evidence at the grave to the alluminium found present in the well. No, not quick to believe it a hoax one minute, not over some child's bed time story. Quote
belovelife Posted July 28, 2012 Report Posted July 28, 2012 what about this, and the corresponding sdo videointeresting? Quote
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