Mdma

[Queso]

the media, government, and schools all tell me that ecstacy (mdma sometimes combined with other drugs, but rarely) puts holes in your brain (amung other things)

 

i've read nothing about this in professional psychopharmacudical texts....is it true or not?

 

what are the TRUE negative effects of MDMA on the human body?

[Dark Mind]

I've heard it's true and seen CAT scans and actual pictures of brains of people who used ecstasy (or heroine) and it certainly seems to be true.

[Fishteacher73]

It is my understanding is that repeated use of mdma causes the brain to slowdown production of certain chemicals (Almost like they atrophy). The biggest issue seems to be that withdrawal can induce suicidal feelings.

 

I could be wrong... just scapping about my head and some random memories are falling out on the keyboard...

[C1ay]

Just forget all that stuff and stick to hemp. Better safe than sorry.

[Dark Mind]

Using ecstasy definitely decreases the amount of serotonin produced by the brain and damages connections among tissues. The scans I saw were apparently only scanning for serotonin and detected the drop in the amount normally found in the brain and showed what appeared to be holes in the brain. They are not "actual" hole, just areas of "less function" than normally possible. :)

 

 

Don't Do Drugs!!! :D

[Dark Mind]

Here's a link if you want it. :)

[Queso]

i'm not saying i want to do mdma. i LOVE researching all sorts of "drugs", it truly fascinates me. i want to know the truth about this, and i know damn well not to trust what the government says (aww isn't that sad?) thanks for your reply fish, and thanks for clearing up the holes, and non function areas Dark Mind. although, what's the difference between a hole in the brain, and an area that does not function? mass, a waste of mass...

 

i've heard of people being depressed during the come down of mdma, which is very understandable, have yet to hear any long-term emotional effects of it though.

and i've heard about withdrawel/severe depression too...

that's because people don't know what they are getting into, and they just take it to get messed up.

that's really sad too.

 

i would be interested to hear what biochemist has to say about this too..

[Biochemist]

i'm not saying i want to do mdma...i would be interested to hear what biochemist has to say about this too..

Happy to chime in on this one. MDMA (Ecstacy) is a methamphetamine analog. It also is structurally similar to mescaline, and has some hallucinogenic properties, probably related to that structural similarity.

 

It has all of the short-term dangers of amphetamines (hypertension, arrthymia up to and including stroke and cardiac arrest) along with a set of long term effects that are not typically associated with amphetamine. MDMA causes a short-term serotonin spike, followed by a prolonged period of serotonin depletion. It looks like it drains presynaptic serotonin vesicles, and precludes reuptake as well. Regular use appears to cause permanent damage to the serotonin axons, so we would expect habitual users to act depressed, and to lose cognitive focus. Both appear to be true.

 

Hallucinogens were one of the most dangerous classes of drugs ever introduced in the youthful-experiment population. If you had a meeting or two with a guy from the '60s or '70 that regularly took LSD, STP or mescaline, you probably would not consider taking MDMA. It is pretty tough for some of these folks to carry on a coherent conversation. The guy I spent an hour with (in the late '70's) was a university student (Berkeley, as I recall) and he had difficulty finishing a full sentence. Somebody ought to make a movie of these guys and play it in high schools.

[Queso]

i understand that frequent methamphetamine, LSD, and STP (DOM) use could(actually the right word is DOES) lead to that over time. but, mescaline??

(3,4,5-trimethyoxyphenethylamine)

for some reason i was under the impression that mescaline was less harmful than others...probably since it's found in nature. (but LSA is too...)

so i'm assuming my presumption was wrong.

 

what are phenethylyamines, what are their negative biological effects?

[Biochemist]

...for some reason i was under the impression that mescaline was less harmful than others...probably since it's found in nature.

Almost all of the very most toxic substances are natually occuring. The botulinim exotoxin- one miligram, properly distributed, could eradicate all humans in Manhattan. Aflatoxin, from a mold that grows on peanut butter, is probably the most potent carcinogen known. These little dudes make dioxin or DDT look like Pepsi.

what are phenethylyamines, what are their negative biological effects?

This is a chemical structure base that is used as a classification. If you di-hydroxylate it, you get catecholamines (e.g., epinephrine, noreepinephrine, dopamine). If you methylate it, you get amphetamine and methamphetamine. Their effects depend on the substitutions. The first three I mentioned are all endogenous neurotransmitters or hormones (epi). The others are drugs that mimic some of the endogenous effects, and have ther own idiosyncratic pharmacology. MDMA is one as well.

[Queso]

1mg! that's so incredible, no wonder you are a biochemist. this stuff is fascinating.

well that's about all the questions i can think of for now, thanks a lot.

[Queso]

well yes actually here is one.

do all of these psychedelics damage the serotonin axoms, or is it just mdma?

if not, what do the other chemicals do to the brain to cause those heavy users to be that way over long periods of time?

[Biochemist]

well yes actually here is one.

do all of these psychedelics damage the serotonin axoms, or is it just mdma?

if not, what do the other chemicals do to the brain to cause those heavy users to be that way over long periods of time?

All of the hallucinagens I mentioned above do deplete serotonin. There are a large number of drugs (natural and synthetic) with dramatic effects on perception. Not all of them affect serotonin.

 

There are several mechanism that I know of that cause irreversible damage. The activity I described above (permanent depletion of presynaptic neurotransmitter storage vesicles) applies to several drugs. The haolucinogens above all deplete (at least ) serotonin. Reserpine depletes norepinephrine (and was used for treatment of blood pressure for years because of this). Some natural endogenous pathways cause damage merely because of over excitation. Both glutamate and aspartate are rarer central neurotransmitters and some folks have associated permanant damage to those nerve tracts merely becasue of excessive excitation. Some have suggest that these two amino acids (when acting as neurotransmittrers) degrade the post synaptic neuron because they are the most acidic of the amino acids, and that the drop in PH destroys the post synaptic membrane. Could be true.

[Queso]

jeez ... never knew over excitement could lead to our own demise. :hihi:

[Biochemist]

jeez ... never knew over excitement could lead to our own demise. :hihi:

Perhaps not your demise, but the technical phrase "fry your squash" should cross the mind of anyone considering use of hallucinogens.

[Queso]

i think they can be very useful tools if used wisely, and not often. of course this is another topic.