Lies In Politics

[Moontanman]

Why are lies generally accepted as OK in politics? No where else in our society, other than possibly religion, are lies the accepted means to an end. In politics sometimes it actually seems like the bigger the lie the better the result even when the people know it's a lie. Why does hearing what you want to believe seem to be more important than the truth?

[LaurieAG]

Hi Moontanmman,

 

Why does hearing what you want to believe seem to be more important than the truth?

Lets start from the top and work down. A lullaby for turbulent times?

[Moontanman]

Hi Moontanmman,

 

 

Lets start from the top and work down. A lullaby for turbulent times?

 

 

While this is more than a bit demeaning I think a case can be made that this need for a "lullaby" appears to show up more in older people than younger... I hope I never get that way and I do my best to try and ferret out the truth from what i want to believe but i do find my self leaning toward that which confirms my world view and away from that which challenges it. I do however investigate things that confirm my world view a bit more vigorously than I used to but it takes a conscious effort on my part not to be satisfied by a simple conformation of what i want to be true...

 

Yes aliens walk among us... B)

[LaurieAG]

It could be a combination of nostalgia and dementia with relation to older people but younger people don't have the benefit of a non commercial childhood.

 

I remember in the 60's that our TV was pretty innocuous but by the early 70's the TV people had worked out how to get money out of parents through children.

[lawcat]

The way I see it: lies are a very important tool in confusing an opponent, or keeping him from knowing.

Let's remember, only truth is knowledge, thus lies equate to not knowing.

Lies are not acceptable in any forum. But in politics, as the word implies, people deal with preferences and opinions and it is difficult or impossible to prove a lie.

The problem is state matters. State information, barring security secrets, should be truthfull, complete, and timely provided to citizens/electorate. Often, public information gets politically colored and distanced from truth. People should insist on getting the truth more, especially from media.

Edited September 6, 2012 by lawcat

[CraigD]

Why are lies generally accepted as OK in politics?

I believe that lying is common and accepted in politics because it is effective, and that it is effective because the negative consequences of lying – for example, that some voters will not vote for or vote against candidates for public office found to be lying because they judge such behavior as a sign of bad character – are outweighed by the positive consequences – that some voters will believe the lies. Were this balance reversed, successful politicians would either not lie, or be careful to not be caught lying.

 

I think the most effective lies made by politicians and their supporters are what’re commonly termed ”big lies”. According to the theory underlying this propaganda technique, if a claim initially widely known to be false is repeated often and confidently, it will become widely accepted as true.

 

Most of the commentary about the big lie I’ve read overstates, I think, the effectiveness or repetition of the lie, and understates the content of the lie itself. The most effective big lies affirm beliefs that are already accepted. Consider a commonly cited example of a big lie: Adolph Hitler’s claim that bad economic and social conditions in post WWI Germany was due to the actions of Jews in Germany and throughout the world. Had many Germans not already been racially prejudiced against ethnic Jews, in large part because of widespread acceptance of ideas of eugenics popular at the time, I don’t believe this lie would have worked.

 

I believe current US political speech employs big lies, and like Hitler’s infamous big lies, they work because they affirm ideas widely believed to be true. For example, Republicans commonly claim that the US economy is badly harmed by lazy people who get welfare, even though it can be show that such people receive only an insignificant fraction of state and federal spending. This lie works, I think, because many people accept at least these related ideas: that lazy people are bad; that un-lazy people are good; that un-lazy people are demoralized that lazy people get welfare, while they do not; and that thus demoralized, these un-lazy people will become lazy.

[Turtle]

Why are lies generally accepted as OK in politics? No where else in our society, other than possibly religion, are lies the accepted means to an end. ...

 

ah contraire. lies are not only accepted but expected and enabled by law in the criminal justice system, from the perry masonesque courtroom lie-by-implication to the interrogators outright lies.

 

let alone that we lie regulary to our most cherished and loved ones. "santa is coming timmy." "no it wont hurt sally." "no your butt doesn't look big in that dress dear." "i got it on sale honey."

 

placebo effect. LIE!!

 

your bendix spring is bad. LIE!

 

i'll gladly pay you tuesday for a hamburger today. wimpy LIE! :lol:

 

the liar at any rate recognizes that recreation, not instruction, is the aim of conversation, and is a far more civilised being than the blockhead who loudly expresses his disbelief in a story which is told simply for the amusement of the company. source :phones:

[Guest MacPhee]

ah contraire. lies are not only accepted but expected and enabled by law in the criminal justice system, from the perry masonesque courtroom lie-by-implication to the interrogators outright lies.

 

let alone that we lie regulary to our most cherished and loved ones. "santa is coming timmy." "no it wont hurt sally." "no your butt doesn't look big in that dress dear." "i got it on sale honey."

 

placebo effect. LIE!!

 

your bendix spring is bad. LIE!

 

i'll gladly pay you tuesday for a hamburger today. wimpy LIE! :lol:

 

the liar at any rate recognizes that recreation, not instruction, is the aim of conversation, and is a far more civilised being than the blockhead who loudly expresses his disbelief in a story which is told simply for the amusement of the company. source :phones:

 

That's right. You grasp the importance of lying.

 

If people didn't keep telling polite lies, they'd be so offensive and insulting to each other, that everyone would be fighting all the time, and civilised society would collapse. Civilised man is not Homo Sapiens , but Homo Mendax.

 

And so Politicians are the epitome of civilisation - because they're liars, they manage to keep society running.

 

As proof of this assertion, let's note this: no thermonuclear war took place between the USA and the USSR. Such a war would have destroyed civilisation. But the lying politicians who were in charge of both countries, didn't allow it to happen.

 

Shouldn't we give them credit for that?

Edited September 6, 2012 by MacPhee

[Knothead]

Why are lies generally accepted as OK in politics? No where else in our society, other than possibly religion, are lies the accepted means to an end. In politics sometimes it actually seems like the bigger the lie the better the result even when the people know it's a lie. Why does hearing what you want to believe seem to be more important than the truth?

 

Because they are effective. Lies are effective.

 

And what is the alternative to accepting the lies? Do the people rebel? Do they boycott the entire farce that is our election process? The popularity contest where the best soundbite wins?

 

 

Hearing what we want to believe is more important than the truth. It's how we are able to get up each day and play our part in the system so that it perpetuates. It's how we are able to deal with the futility.

Vanity. All is vanity.

Hearing what we want to believe is the sand foundation of the entire unsustainable structure that is our society.

 

That's the only rational that I can come up with to understand how Ron Paul, a guy whose character is, from what I can tell, beyond reproach, hasn't run away with the whole thing. I, perhaps naively, believe that he is telling he truth. Unfortunately, the truth isn't what we want to hear. The truth will keep you from getting a speaking slot at the RNC.

 

The truth will never get you elected.

Apparently. :(

 

Is our evolution entirely dependent upon natural selection?

[lawcat]

 

The truth will never get you elected.

Apparently. :(

 

 

 

 

I heard Clinton tell the truth from the heart last night at DNC. We'll see how it goes.

[Deepwater6]

I heard Clinton tell the truth from the heart last night at DNC. We'll see how it goes.

 

I also heard Clinton say "I did not have sex with that woman" I thought he was a good president, but an even better liar.

[lawcat]

I also heard Clinton say "I did not have sex with that woman" I thought he was a good president, but an even better liar.

You say truth

[Buffy]

I also heard Clinton say "I did not have sex with that woman" I thought he was a good president, but an even better liar.

 

Actually they had James Lipton (Inside the Actor's Studio) on MSNBC this week, and he pointed out that in reality Clinton is a lousy liar and you could tell that from his performance of that line. But he called Wednesday's speech "masterful" because you could tell he felt strongly about what he was talking about, and for those of us who saw it, I think you'd have to agree....

 

When I took office, only high energy physicists had ever heard of what is called the Worldwide Web.... Now even my cat has its own page, :phones:

Buffy