Legal Pot At The Federal Level

[Deepwater6]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/02/pot-legalization-goes-federal/

 

The way I see it there is good reason for legalization, but it also has it's downsides. It's been years since I've been a consumer and some people tend to grow more conservative as they get older. I would say I fall into that category somewhat. However when it comes to legalization I see these benefits.

 

The time freed up for police to focus on more voilent crimes would be one. It really does give Cancer and MS patients some relief from their symptoms. It would generate desperately needed funds for the government.

 

There would probably still be an underground market if legalization did come to pass. I also never understood how DUI's would be handled for legal users as the product stays in your system so long. The effects may have worn off after a few hours, but insurance companies getting sued will want to blame the driver with pot in his/her system. Even if that drug is used legally.

 

Politicians have their work cut out for themselves. Because every year legalization seems to get more and more public approval. It will be interesting to see how this plays out between the voters, the states, and the feds.

[Racoon]

So how do you see its downside?

The poor kids..???

 

Because the kids can still get weed all they want even it being Illegal..

 

Worried about the people who smoke pot and drive??

Well most people who smoke drive more safely. You aren't stopping drunk or erratic drivers as it is...

 

Worried about Safety... The worst side effect from pot is hunger and sleep, but you wake up fine...

 

I don't think anyone under 18 should smoke pot just like anyone under 18 shouldn't drink or have cigarettes.. But once you turn 18 you should be free to choose your Vices, or none at all..

[Deepwater6]

So how do you see its downside?

The poor kids..???

 

Because the kids can still get weed all they want even it being Illegal..

 

Worried about the people who smoke pot and drive??

Well most people who smoke drive more safely. You aren't stopping drunk or erratic drivers as it is...

 

Worried about Safety... The worst side effect from pot is hunger and sleep, but you wake up fine...

 

I don't think anyone under 18 should smoke pot just like anyone under 18 shouldn't drink or have cigarettes.. But once you turn 18 you should be free to choose your Vices, or none at all..

 

 

"Most people that smoke drive more safely" where are you getting data to confirm this fact? From what I have read and heard from some of my summer help employees. The pot is much more potent than it was when I was a teenager. Enough so to impair a persons driving.

 

I'm all for giving anyone over 18 their rights, but if the pot is cause for them to run a red light because they are stoned, that I have a problem with. Especially if its my car they slam into.

[Racoon]

"Most people that smoke drive more safely" where are you getting data to confirm this fact? From what I have read and heard from some of my summer help employees. The pot is much more potent than it was when I was a teenager. Enough so to impair a persons driving.

 

I'm all for giving anyone over 18 their rights, but if the pot is cause for them to run a red light because they are stoned, that I have a problem with. Especially if its my car they slam into.

 

 

Can you confirm that a person smoking pot, then driving, is More likey to cause an accident??

 

No. Then OK. You can't confirm it impairs driving judgement to the point of recklessness

[Turtle]

I know! Let's look it up.

 

Marijuana And Actual Driving Performance

Marijuana And Actual Driving Performance

 

ABSTRACT

 

Marijuana's effects on actual driving performance were assessed in a series of three studies wherein dose-effect relationships were measured in actual driving situations that progressively approached reality. The first was conducted on a highway closed to other traffic. Subjects (24) were treated on separate occasions with THC 100, 200 and 300 g/kg, and placebo. They performed a 22-km road tracking test beginning 30 and 90 minutes after smoking. Their lateral position variability increased significantly after each THC dose relative to placebo in a dose-dependent manner for two hours after smoking. The second study was conducted on a highway in the presence of other traffic. Subjects (16) were treated with the same THC doses as before. They performed a 64-km road tracking test preceded and followed by 16-km car following tests. Results confirmed those of the previous study. Car following performance was only slightly impaired. The third study was conducted in high-density urban traffic. Separate groups of 16 subjects were treated with 100 g/kg THC and placebo; and, ethanol (mean BAC .034 g%) and placebo. Alcohol impaired performance relative to placebo but subjects did not perceive it. THC did not impair driving performance yet the subjects thought it had. These studies show that THC in single inhaled doses up to 300 g/kg has significant, yet not dramatic, dose-related impairing effects on driving performance.

...

Discussion

 

THC's effects on road-tracking after doses up to 300 g/kg never exceeded alcohol's at bacs of 0.08 g%; and, were in no way unusual compared to many medicinal drugs' (Robbe, 1994; Robbe and O'Hanlon, 1995; O'Hanlon et al., 1995). Yet, THC's effects differ qualitatively from many other drugs, especially alcohol. Evidence from the present and previous studies strongly suggests that alcohol encourages risky driving whereas THC encourages greater caution, at least in experiments. Another way THC seems to differ qualitatively from many other drugs is that the former's users seem better able to compensate for its adverse effects while driving under the influence.

 

Puff puff, pass pass? :esmoking: :steering:

[SaxonViolence]

The State doesn't have the Right to outlaw Pot, Cocaine, Crystal Meth, Anabolic Steroids or Cyanide Capsules.

 

Pragmatic Considerations don't enter in.

 

I was once a serious drug user. Since then, I've become rather anti-drug with a few exceptions. My arguments are not intended to be self-serving.

 

I will say this:

 

The more folks argue that legalizing drugs would spell the end of Western Civilization...

 

The more I think:

 

If it is Western Civilization's Geas to perish from drug use—then the State is not only unconscienciously exceeds its rightful authority, but it also has the colossal hubris to block destiny.

 

 

 

Saxon Violence

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

THC did not impair driving performance yet the subjects thought it had. These studies show that THC in single inhaled doses up to 300 g/kg has significant, yet not dramatic, dose-related impairing effects on driving performance.

 

Ehrm....

 

THC's effects on road-tracking after doses up to 300 g/kg never exceeded alcohol's at bacs of 0.08 g%; and, were in no way unusual compared to many medicinal drugs'

______________________________________

::::::::::::[CAUTION RANT AHEAD]:::::::::::::::

______________________________________

 

But I thought they just said that THC did not impair driving performance. Did not exceed impairment equivalent 0.08%, I'm so relieved...wonder why them stiff pricks at the DOT believe that a BAC of .02% is enough for criminal charges and to force a CDL driver to park it for 24 hours and .04% enough for a DUI and immediate suspension of commercial driving privileges for one to two years first offence, permanently for a second.

 

For the fun of it let's see them add the latest scourge of road safety to their tests, the digital communication device which has been proven to impair driving ability to a level equivalent to a BAC of .08% .

 

My own philosophy is folk already cannot be trusted to make wise decisions when it comes to safe operation of a motor vehicle. I live in a state where it is illegal to have one of these devices in your hand while driving, but you wouldn't know it to watch folks in their vehicles...despite knowing it's dangerous and despite knowing it's illegal, car after car that goes by my humble residence some idiot with a phone either glued to their ear or in both hands propped up against the steering wheel as they type their messages while they race by at double the speed limit or more in a residential area with blind curves, hidden driveways, no sidewalks and children frequently walking or riding their bikes, scooters and skateboards on the road. When I go into the city the only difference is now they are also doing it through school zones. On the interstate they're easy to spot as well as they wander back and forth across their lane, even across both lanes, change lanes without signaling or even looking to see if they can change lanes safely. I've lost count of how many times I've either had to get on the brakes, the throttle or dive for the shoulder to avoid getting clobbered by one of these digital morons. Add in the stupidity of youth, no longer having to hide possession of pot, no real means of testing when they consumed it, and further impaired ability to make responsible decisions....

 

I have to say... to legalise it without at the same time making sure there are laws to address pot related driving offences and a means of actually enforcing them is foolish at best.

 

I've "friends" (not wise to post actual relationships) that freely admit they are unable to function properly when they consume pot, and having discovered this by trial and error no longer have a toke before going to work or doing other tasks that require an ability to focus...Some have not noticed and smoke before work anyway and it shows in their job performance and decision making, much to the aggravation of their employer and coworkers.

 

While I'm all for personal freedom, I balance these known variables into the equation and it becomes apparent that accountability need be built into the laws regulating it....especially on the road. For all of the belief that one is entitled to the same privacy protections as if they were in their own home, it is not the same thing, nor should it be considered so when they are operating a vehicle. One's actions while driving do not apply only to the vehicle's occupants, unsafe practices effect every motorist around them.

 

In short criminal law and enforcement need to be in place before saying ok you can legally possess and consume marijuana.

 

Which reminds me.

 

There is no mention of any sort of testing for other illicit substances often included in pot...nor for that matter the effects of much more potent strains. I've had some pretty wicked creeper over the years which took longer to kick in and certainly rendered me unsafe to do anything beyond sitting safely and even that was a challenge...I most definitely was in no shape to drive, heck I could barely crawl....imagine that behind the wheel of two and a half tons of steel.

 

The problem with any legal intoxicating substance is that there are those that will misuse and abuse them....should everyone pay for those stupid many...H*** no...Should there be an effective means with harsh penalties for dealing with them in place before anyone can legally consume...absolutely.

 

[rant over]

 

EDIT:

Although THC's adverse effects on driving performance appeared relatively small in the tests employed in this program, one can still easily imagine situations where the influence of marijuana smoking might have a dangerous effect; i.e., emergency situations which put high demands on the driver's information processing capacity, prolonged monotonous driving, and after THC has been taken with other drugs, especially alcohol. Because these possibilities are real, the results of the present studies should not be considered as the final word. They should, however, serve as the point of departure for subsequent studies that will ultimately complete the picture of THC's effects on driving performance.

Edited August 21, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[Deepwater6]

Can you confirm that a person smoking pot, then driving, is More likey to cause an accident??

 

No. Then OK. You can't confirm it impairs driving judgement to the point of recklessness

 

You made the original statement "most people that smoke drive more safely" I would think that would leave the burden of proof up to you.

 

C'mon Racoon, yes you can drive while being stoned. I did it when I was a teenager. But to state that pot makes people better drivers???

 

I would much rather have a person on the road who has smoked too much pot as opposed to someone who has drank too much. :friday: But I've been around enough people who smoke to know it's better off if some of them don't get behind the wheel.

 

Yes there are some old heads that have been smoking for thirty yrs. and are 'in the zone" so to speak, but people new to the drug (first time users) are usually the ones driving 11 mph on the interstate. :eek_big: The drug alters their perception. :xx:

[Racoon]

I'm more scared of a driver on the road who just worked a 12 hour shift and is dozing off...

 

I'm more scared of one of the increasing Drunk Illegal Aliens who can't read the road signs...

 

I'm more scared of someone with an Epilepsy or Seizure condition who forgot to take their Meds...

 

Not to mention some 18-25 year old who feels compelled to update their Facebook status while driving 65 MPH on a country road..

 

People shouldn't "smoke and drive" but let me say that its a False scare tactic for opposing legalization.

 

Benefits outweigh the Negatives when it comes to finally legalizing one of Natures Miracle Plants

Edited August 22, 2013 by Racoon

[Deepwater6]

I agree with you there, opposing legalization is a scare tactic and doesn't make any sense. Drunk drivers and texting junkies are a lot more dangerous than the guy who smokes the occasional doobie.

[Deepwater6]

Double trouble.

 

 

 

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=9215063

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

I agree with you there, opposing legalization is a scare tactic and doesn't make any sense. Drunk drivers and texting junkies are a lot more dangerous than the guy who smokes the occasional doobie.

I don't see a scare tactic. What I do see is the need for folks to do their homework and develop laws and a means of proving impairment with at the least the same penalties as DUI for operating a motor vehicle

while high.

 

Folks don't stop texting because they're stoned, drunk or driving meaning instead of one safety issue there can be as many as all three simultaneously (heck I used to love filling my huka with rum for the flavor, the extra kick, and the tasty tasty, highly intoxicating "bong water". Besides no good party is without awesome bud and much booze). With either of the first two comes impaired judgement with the third a lack of knowing what's going on beyond the use of the digital device. (It is my dream that cellular use while driving will one day carry the same penalties as driving while impaired....especially if such use results in an accident)...Keep hoping any impaired driving form that results in a death will someday carry not a light weight slap on the wrist charge and penalties, but the same charges and penalties as though the driver had used a gun and to kill their victim(s)

 

I said it before and I'll say it again. I am for legalization, to be honest I very much miss smoking it, but, seeing as it's illegal (could lose my freedom) and employers piss test (could lose my job), for now I have to be content with memories.

 

 

Which raises an interesting question.

 

Will employers still be able to legally discriminate against smokers of herb? Already they're gaining more and more leverage against tobacco smokers, and are able to refuse to hire and can fire smokers in an increasing number of states.

Just because it becomes legal to use doesn't necessarily mean employers will be keen on employees using. At my last few employers marijuana or any other not prescribed drug in your system meant automatically fired.

 

Of course employers do have a liability issue with drug use. With no means of proving when the injured worker last used Workers Comp is known to refuse to pay if an employee tests dirty leaving the employer open to lawsuits from the employee, which win or lose cost big bucks and time...and leave the employer the burden of proving that if the employee were sober he/she would not have been injured.

 

In short there are a lot of issues which should be addressed prior to legalization (ideally) and combined with the legislation to legalize. The job market is tough enough without folks losing their jobs for after work recreational use. It's also tough enough without lawsuits and higher liability insurance rates resulting from injuries caused by working under the influence draining already tight budgets.

Edited August 23, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[Deepwater6]

My company just instituted a no tobacco policy. Meaning no cigs no chewing tobacco and no smoking in cars on company property.

 

To make pot legal there must be some kind of gauge. Booze has the breath test for quickly identifying over use. Pot would have to be set up for a THC level, or however they test for it these days.

[cujet]

I recently returned from a California vacation. Pot is semi-legal in some areas there. It's become a big problem in so many ways. I've honed my position on this subject due to my recent CA visit. I've never tried it, and until recently, believed that it should be legal in states on an individual basis. I've changed my mind.

 

1) locally legal (with reasonable restrictions) pot is very problematic as it is very attractive to a particular, and very undesirable demographic including the criminal underground.

 

2) Locally legal pot has significantly increased crime. Not just a minor increase, but an increase in the hundreds of percent. My car was broken into and damaged, during a one night stay in Ukiah, CA.

 

3) I met with a local official on other business. His description of the problem was heart wrenching. People are going missing, and criminal activity is strongly suspected. A couple was recently murdered with a crossbow.

 

4) The problem was visually obvious, with middle aged men, having made the pilgrimage, now homeless all over these towns, playing midnight hackey-sack and yo-yo's in the parking lots. A less than ideal situation in my opinion.

 

My point is this: I now believe it should be Federally Legal, and properly regulated. In much the same way as alcohol.