Perception Vs Reality

[LaurieAG]

If you think printing money is the solution to everything then this probably isn't for you.

 

The part from 'Thanks Steve' onwards was posted in a recent 6 Week Workplace Culture Blitz, an international closed forum on LinkedIn, run by Steve Simpson. All the text is as posted, with some minor editing online, including spelling mistakes, and I have just edited the preamble for the sake of the innocent.

 

Myers Briggs, PPS DiSC history and the consequences.

 

You may not be aware that DiSC is an indicator of surface traits while M-B is an indication of core traits.

 

In the late 80's or early 90's my father ran the whole family thorugh the original pre 1994 Personal Profile System DiSC and I was intrigued as my classification was Acheiver, Developer, Developer. This was interesting as my self perception was exactly the same as the difference between how (I perceived how) others perceived me and my self perception. This just indicates that I'm a reasonably balance individual suited to the type of work I have always done.

 

The real interesting thing about the pre 1994 version of PPS DiSC is that it contained extra classifications that were removed after 1994. Two of these classifications were, I am not exactly sure of their names, Overperform and Underperform, and they indicated when the person taking the test was not being honest and just selected all of the good options or all of the bad options (i.e. all 1's or all 0's).

 

This is very interesting as the guy who created DiSC, William Marston, also created the first Polygraph or Lie Detector machine. The Lie Detector test was discontinued around the same time as the other classifications were removed from the PPS DiSC in 1994 and, although the DiSC classifications were identified through a voluntary process, the Polygraph was discontinued on medical grounds. Some security companies (Brinks) and some police forces (in the US) still use the polygraph test mainly as a refusal is an indicator of something to hide while the actual results themselves can be manipulated. I do not know how anybody could excuse these classifications as someone aiming to get the best result for a test such as this is dishonest and exactly what these results indicate.

 

Thanks Steve.

 

Everybody in this forum probably has their own different take on workplace culture and I admire your balanced approach but we must all be aware that there are pro's and con's for every different approach.

 

I suppose my angle is due to the increasing evidence that toxic cultures can become predominant and I hope this is just media hype and not the tip of the iceberg.

 

Unfortunately, in situations like the Lance Armstrong affair, this type of balanced approach can, and did, serve to reinforce and embed a toxic culture within an organization and, instead of promoting good positive behaviours, they forced negative behaviours onto relatively good people to the detriment of those willing to stand up and be counted.

 

There are some simple binary ways that are currently being used around the world to address these core issues and, as there may be a tipping point where an embedded toxic culture can bring down an organisation or business just like toxic chemicals can destroy natural habitats to everybodys detriment, I will post these in the Myers Briggs thread a bit later on.

 

Part 1

 

I am going to throw out a lot of disparate threads here, refine them a bit in the next post and then draw them together in the last post to provide a simple symetric weave or net, to determine the best ways to clothe a naked emperor or catch a bottom dwelling scum sucker.

 

Human perception is a most wonderful thing and perceived threat has been the driver for the evolution of basic animal reactions/interractions and our inate humanity/inhumanity, for good/bad.

 

The Dali Lama said words to the effect that comprehending the difference between perception and reality is the first step along the road to good mental health.

 

The Peter Principle, in its most simplistic form is a top down organizational model where, as long as they display competence at what they do, people are promoted until they reach their own personal limits.

 

Certain areas in southern Africa, where sleeping sickness is prevalent, reveal a higher than normal incidence of sickle cell anaemia in the population, as being debilitated for a period is a benefit when the alternative is considered.

 

Sun Tzu said words to the effect that it doesn't matter how big or small you are in any situation, those who have a good understanding of the underlying mechanics of the situation have the potential to wield the true power.

 

If you do not want to see the entire picture, and only want to be told what you want to hear, you will most likely deceive yourself and be manipulated by those only slightly more intelligent than yourself.

 

Part 2

 

The negative side should be considered as a natural and equally complementary part of any system as deception can often only be determined by what is omitted or obfuscated as opposed to what is volunteered or requested.

 

The easiest people to train are honest individuals, regardless of their IQ, because a simple yes/no answer is all the feedback a trainer requires.

 

While polygraphs have been disproved, as they can be manipulated and masked by medical factors, a refusal to submit to testing or psyhological evaluation can be considered a direct indication that there is something to hide.

 

While there are corrupt organisations (CO) and organisations of corrupt individuals (OCI) the basic difference is that a CO will generally operate from the top down while an OCI will generally operate from the bottom up.

 

The corollary to the Peter Principle is that when you have promoted all your competents to their highest level of incompetence you must change your management philosophy from top down to bottom up as the non corrupt people at the bottom are often the only competent people left in your organization.

 

You cannot write software without a not operator and, at its most elementary level, the entire computer phenomena that has changed the way the world works and thinks within living memory, would never work without both ones and zeroes or true and false.

 

The simplest way to classify the two prevalent personality traits in OC and OCI, and link their common aspects, is to describe the former as elected politicians and the latter as unelected politicians.

 

 

Part 3

 

It is highly unlikely that even the cleverest of individuals can hold together a complex deception and tissue of lies across multiple (a minimum of 3 to triangulate) profiling regimes such as MBTI, DiSC and FIRO-B.

 

This will be my last post in this thread so I will leave the last words to Xenophon. His Helenica, covering events from 411 to 362 bce, may be considered a lesser work than Thucydidies History of the Pellopenesian war, I can understand why a native Athenian has much respect for the Spartans, as he really makes you think for yourself.

 

The thinking part is up to you, will you stand up and be counted, regardless of the consequences?

 

"It is said, too, that he went along the lines and encouraged the men in the following words: 'Fellow-citizens, we must now show what we can do and so be able to to look people in the face. Let us leave to those who come after us the Sparta which we received from our fathers. Let there now be an end to our feeling ashamed of ourselves before our wives and our children and the older men and the foreigners - we who were once the admiration of the whole of Greece!'

...

When the battle was over and he had put up a trophy, Archidamus at once sent Demoteles the herald to Sparta to report how great a victory had been won and how, though vast numbers of the enemy had fallen, not a single Spartan had been killed. They say, too, that when the people in Sparta heard the news they all burst into tears, beginning with Agesilaus and the members of the Council and the ephors. And it seems that tears can equally express both joy and sorrow."

[Eclogite]

Probably I would rate on a personality test as "Too dumb to come in out of the rain". That might explain why I have no idea what point the foregoing was trying to make. Would you care to explain it to me?

[LaurieAG]

Probably I would rate on a personality test as "Too dumb to come in out of the rain". That might explain why I have no idea what point the foregoing was trying to make. Would you care to explain it to me?

Eclogite, you have to start thinking for yourself sometime. Start by googling Myers Briggs and DiSC and do some reading.

[Eclogite]

Eclogite, you have to start thinking for yourself sometime. Start by googling Myers Briggs and DiSC and do some reading.

Let me be more direct. I am familiar with myers-Briggs. I understand the details in your post. However your conclusions are not apparent. I can do my own thinking, thank you, but I have no intention of trying to guess at yours. So please tell what the point of your post was.

[LaurieAG]

So please tell what the point of your post was.

Eclogite, when the voluntary classifications in DiSC were removed, at the same time as the polygraph was relegated to pseudo science in the mid 1990's, modern society lost the one sure fire voluntary way to classify people who dishonestly ticked all of the 'good' responses (1's) as being most like themselves and also ticked all of the bad responses (0's) as being least like themselves.

 

When someone did this it was very binary obvious that they were not being honest but just trying to get the best result i.e. just like a politician. Now as far as I am aware there is no human on this planet who is perfectly good or perfectly bad whatever their self perception is, and I am not religious.

 

Plato, in his Phaedrus, referred to a conversation between Thoth, the ancient Egyptian god of maths and science etc, and King Thamos, otherwise known as Ammon which I will write in my own words for brevity. In this conversation Thoth presented wonders of science and only gave the good points while Thamos responded with the bad side of things that had been omitted. In the end Thoth presented writing as the elixir of knowledge and Thamos retorted that the inventor of things often could not comprehend any weakness in their own creations and that while writing would produce people who appeared to be wise, but would not really be wise because their wisdom would not come from their hearts i.e. blind faith verses making a decision based on all the pro's and con's.

 

The OP is deliberately intended to throw people off who operate on blind faith, so that those who do weigh the pro's and cons can identify them and isolate them before they do more harm to society. I wrote this after reading the following PHD thesis and doing my own research on Corrupt Organisations (CO) and Organisations of Corrupt Individuals (OCI).

 

Organizations of corrupt individuals: a study of corruption in international cricket and the Catholic Church

 

http://ro.uow.edu.au/theses/3519/

 

The thesis demonstrates the value of an interpretive, processual methodological approach when exploring the dynamics of corruption development and the benefits of integrating some important extant theories in the diverse fields of organizational corruption, deviance, ethical management and governance, man-made disasters and secrecy and silence. Furthermore, it demonstrates the important role that stakeholders play in enabling and disabling individual corruption in organizations.

 

A significant outcome of this thesis is that it demonstrates that ethical management alone will not prevent OCI development in its early stages. To overcome this difficulty, the thesis argues that ethical research should be extended to examining prevention and mitigation strategies that governance bodies might use to identify and control potential forms of corruption by individuals in their organizations and institutions.

 

Eclogite, do you understand what the point of my post is now? Do you, in your considered judgement think there is a better way?

 

BTW, I classified as a MBTI ENTJ in 2011, what was your classification?

 

http://www.statisticbrain.com/myers-briggs-statistics/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENTJ

[cal]

Eclogite, you have to start thinking for yourself sometime. Start by googling Myers Briggs and DiSC and do some reading.

 

>start thinking for yourself...

>Start by googling...

 

You just shot yourself in the foot now didn't you? In order to have thoughts on DiSC, you have to get the information from other people? So who's thoughts are they really? Let's say you formulate some new original content via a priori thinking based on the information provided to you by the outside, is the new content not just hashed content from other people?

 

How can you think for yourself about a topic that is entirely given to you by another source other than your own consciousness?

[Eclogite]

Thank you for your reply Laurie. I now understand what you were seeking to demonstrate. I believe you have a singularily weak argument, which is why I failed to identify it on my initial readings of your OP. Frankly, and I do not intend offend, I considered that is what you might have meant, but rejected it at once because, based upon the presented evidence, it seemed to me decidedly foolish.

 

You have now provided a doctoral thesis to support the argument. If I have time I shall consider that, but I must say I have serious reservations about basing such a radical assertion as you make, upon a single thesis. This has the feel of "If you have a hammer, all problems look like nails."

[LaurieAG]

In order to have thoughts on DiSC, you have to get the information from other people? So who's thoughts are they really? Let's say you formulate some new original content via a priori thinking based on the information provided to you by the outside, is the new content not just hashed content from other people?

Hi Snax,

 

Have you ever read up on how DiSC (surface traits) and MBTI (core traits) were originally developed? because you just answered your own question. Don't forget that the information that is not contained in a data set can be just as important as the information that is.

 

You might reread what I have said about the classifications that were removed i.e. they were in DiSC prior to 1994 but not after.

 

In the early 90's I wrote an undergraduate Communications Studies paper titled 'When does a message become noise? When does noise become a message?', can you tell me your version of the answer?

[LaurieAG]

You have now provided a doctoral thesis to support the argument. If I have time I shall consider that, but I must say I have serious reservations about basing such a radical assertion as you make, upon a single thesis. This has the feel of "If you have a hammer, all problems look like nails."

Sorry Eclogite,

 

Google organizations of corrupt behaviour and see how many other papers are out there.

Edited March 4, 2013 by LaurieAG

[Eclogite]

Here is my thinking:

 

Psychology remains a broad discipline that contains some perspectives that have been arrived at without scientific rigour. (I believe, for example, that there may still be Freudians!)

 

Your argument appears to be that the modification of the DiSC instrument and the general discontinuation of lie detector usage in legal cases is part of a conspiracy to facilitate political lies. Is that an accurate representation of your position?

 

If so, that is just to large a leap to make - an unfounded leap, in fact.

[LaurieAG]

Your argument appears to be that the modification of the DiSC instrument and the general discontinuation of lie detector usage in legal cases is part of a conspiracy to facilitate political lies. Is that an accurate representation of your position?

No it is not Eclogite, speak for yourself, someone left the door open accidentally and the feral cats are eating everybody's dinner.

 

The discontinuation of the polygraph was valid as the test can be passed by consummate liars (false negatives) or can be masked by medical conditions (false positives).

 

On the other hand, someone who voluntarily ticks all the good answers and all the bad answers is self identifying that they have a dishonest perception that could be the result of a medical condition (drug induced, medicated or otherwise) or have an undiagnosed perception problem related to lying.

 

Do you think that we should adjust honesty and dishonesty to the current social perception of such or do you think we should have some sort of measurable standards to go by?

 

MBTI is Jungian. http://www.statisticbrain.com/myers-briggs-statistics/

 

The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) assessment is a psychometric questionnaire designed to measure psychological preferences in how people perceive the world and make decisions. These preferences were extrapolated from the typological theories proposed by Carl Gustav Jung and first published in his 1921 book Psychological Types.

The original developers of the personality inventory were Katharine Cook Briggs and her daughter, Isabel Briggs Myers. They began creating the indicator during World War II, believing that a knowledge of personality preferences would help women who were entering the industrial workforce for the first time to identify the sort of war-time jobs where they would be “most comfortable and effective”.

DiSC is not Freudian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiSC

 

In 1956, Walter Clarke, an industrial psychologist, was able to accidentally construct the DISC assessment using William Moulton Marston’s theory of the DISC model. He accomplished this by publishing the Activity Vector Analysis, a checklist of adjectives on which he asked people to indicate descriptions that were accurate about themselves. This assessment was intended for use in businesses needing assistance in choosing qualified employees. His assessment was later amended by Walter Clarke Associates and called a self-description. Also, it no longer required a checklist. Instead, test takers choose from two or more terms. Even with all of William Moulton Marston's and Walter Clarke's developments, the DISC assessment still had further developments to undertake. John Greier contributed to this assessment by producing the DISC personality profile in 1958 based on the works of Marston and Clarke. Greier conducted hundreds of clinical interviews which assisted him to further progress the fifteen patterns which Walter Clarke had exposed. Since then a number of publishers have updated and/or generated their own versions of the DISC assessment. These have had varying degrees of validity and reliability.