Memories Are Made Of This

[paigetheoracle]

Speaking as someone who is losing their memory through the aging process, I thought I would point out some of my observations on what I see happening to me and the cause as I believe it to be.

 

Firstly emotion plays a big part in forgetting. If you're depressed you don't want to remember things - in fact you have a definite reason to forget, in that failure is not something you want to openly display, unlike success, which is the total opposite. I see memories and perceptions blurring into each other because the separation and segregation that ensured I could easily differentiate one thing from another is going, to be replaced by chaos and confusion: Life is input / output as far as I see it. The mind / body interrelationship leads me to think that energy poured into one, leads to it being depleted in the other, like the effect of an hour glass being turned upside down. We have cold thought (intellect) as input and hot blooded action as output (emotion). Think of a volcano and the way cooling magma hardens into layers and separates out into different rocks or crystals over time but starts out as amorphous energy or hot, undifferentiated lava. In society we see form breaking down during revolutions (law and order giving way to crowd politics as Umberto Eco envisioned it I believe, saying the mob moved like a separate living entity as opposed to their individual selves) in the same way cells do in a chrysalis, to form a new creature and perhaps that is all death is, in relation to the individual - the loss of identity.

 

So what I'm saying in essence is that as I 'lose my mind,'I pour out my energy to form a new me elsewhere (Not reincarnation as such but like the death of a plant fertilizes the soil for new plant growth from seeds). I forget myself, literally.

[Guest MacPhee]

A superb post, from a literary viewpoint. Well worth reading several times. The richness of imagery, and originality of diction, class it as fine writing.

 

However, as regards the actual subject matter - surely memory failure in old age, can be explained in simple physiological terms. It's because elderly brains get sclerosed. So they can't record new memories. Like an ageing cassette-tape wearing out?

Edited March 30, 2013 by MacPhee

[Deepwater6]

A great thread topic. I also struggle with what I believe is age related increasing memory loss. What surprised me is how abrupt the change came. The old saying goes once you reach 40 everything changes. I saw no difference at that age, but when I passed 45 the difference was abrupt and deep. I assumed I would slowly lose my memory as I continued to age, but after 45 it was a cliff I went over.

 

I have seen the drop in my wife's memory ability at the same time, we are roughly the same age. Although she will not readily admit her difficulty's I can notice the difference. Both of us having a hard time remembering what we were going to say. We often both walk into rooms and say to ourselves "what did I come in here for"? Even something as mundane as opening the fridge and not have any inkling of what it was you thought you wanted.

 

I found it quite comical at first, but that feeling quickly turned into fear. With the realization that if this is occurring that I'm into a decline and closer to death than birth.

 

When I was a teenager time seemed something of an unlimited resource. When I was in my 20's I felt strong, invincible, and sharp. Time actually on some level seemed to drag. I couldn't wait to turn 16 and drive, to turn 18 and become a legal adult, and of course 21 to legally drink. Those events seemed to take forever to pass. Now however I find myself with the opposite frame of mind. Time for me these day is a slow fall down a ever increasing incline. An ever growing steeper slope.

 

The only solace from this whirlpool of time I seemed to melting into is the need to appreciate the here and now and loved ones around me. Knowing your inevitable travel towards none existence is closing in. In my mind it is the driver behind mid-life crisis. Although I have not bought a fancy sports car. I am spending much more money on the finer things in life with what my budget can afford. With the thinking of enjoy now before it's too late, before I get to a state where I can no longer appreciate what I have worked a lifetime to amass. All those years of skimping and saving for the rainy day of old age. Although not yet retired I am using funds that were originally accumulated for that purpose. As my health is not very good I have the distinct feeling that I will not live long into the retirement years.

 

Time as far as dealing with issues have seemed to slow down. All things seem calm and slower in the day to day. Conversely time on a macro scale is accelerating. I cannot believe the date some days...2013?? unreal. I also find it very odd that I have lasted this long. So many people I knew growing up and so many lives lost. Car accidents, disease, etc. what an oddity I was one of the ones to survive this long. Although like everyone else suffering my share of life's obstacles I somehow made it this long. I also must admit what a long strange trip its been.

[paigetheoracle]

I personally don't think it is the sclerosed brain that is the problem necessarily but the upkeep of the said instrument (If you don't throw out the trash it builds up). So the question then becomes if that is the problem, why is it happening? To this I answer that yes wear and tear will grind down the mechanism but so will experience as a negative mental effect. When I give up effort, I notice I feel depressed. When there is an element of hope I stay centred and push on with my goal but seeing nil result leads me to withdraw from life. This means less awareness and less impetus to memorize things: If I think something is going to be of use, I hold onto it as an object or idea but let go of it, if I don't see it being taken up by the rest of society - ergo failures give up the effort to perceive, act and remember as they lose life's battles (Depression is withdrawal from life and is psychologically where they old are headed as youth is full of the enthusiasm that comes from lack of experience (hopes / dreams). Those people who retain their faculties into old age are more likely to be optimistic than those who let their lives go to rack and ruin. Even where somebody is physically younger but intellectually challenged, reflect this pessimistic or despairing attitude in my opinion, unless they have brain damage /failed development. A radical view I'm sure but I see the physical result as the end product of an emotional or psychological condition. :(

 

Freud covered this psychologically in thanatos and eros or the life / death urge. I see aging as The Chinese Water Torture, not only wearing down the body but the resolve of the individual. It's the last straw on the camel's back or the bucking bronco, when you overload some system (energy discharge, where inward turned attention explodes out, emptying us). It's also overexposure to something or snow blindness (whiteout, where sky, land and sea all merge into one, rather than being distinct entities).

 

Why are their differences in aging and decline or do you think it is all genetics? Why do some people pride themselves on keeping their yard (life) tidy (under control) but others are either cluttered or abandoned (overgrown)? If it is genetics the question arises where and when did these instructions arise? To me life isn't a recording but what we do with the free energy we've got.

Edited April 10, 2013 by paigetheoracle

[Rade]

Paigetheoracle said: ...."emotion plays a big part in forgetting"

 

Emotion also has an important role in not forgetting. This research suggests that people with dementia may be good legal witness to emotional events that occur to them or others because they retain the ability to recall many details of emotional events, yet forget where they left the keys to car:

 

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/234132.pdf

 

One reason for this is because memory is stored in many different areas of the brain, so perhaps memory of emotional events one area of brain, and memory of where we leave keys to car another area, and this would be under genetic control, you get the picture.

 

Concerning genetics, the instructions of genetic control ultimately come down to sequence of nucleotides, and how that sequence is regulated along DNA molecule. Consider a plant you put by window. It has free energy to use. Why does it always bend and grow toward the direction of the source of light ? How many plants have you seen that lose the memory they have written in genetic code to bend toward light as they age ? If you did see one, how could such loss of memory be explained ? Why are there differences in aging and decline between the plant and you ? Why do you think your loss of memory as you age would be any different from a plant that losses memory how to bend toward light as it ages ? I ask so many questions because I sense you like to learn by asking questions then look for rational answers.

[Rade]

So what I'm saying in essence is that as I 'lose my mind,'I pour out my energy to form a new me elsewhere (Not reincarnation as such but like the death of a plant fertilizes the soil for new plant growth from seeds). I forget myself, literally.

This statement makes me wonder how do humans lose memory, that is, is lost of memory itself something like losing car keys, e.g., losing a 'thing' ? I offer this as a way to help explain why you get feelings of (1) lose my mind, (2) use energy to form a new me, (3) forget myself, literally, over time.

 

Here goes...

 

We start with a definition of memory as a relationship between present state of human mind "observable" via conscious now and past state stored in unconscious that is "non-observable" now. Using this definition memory becomes a relational concept that our mind invokes to fill the difference caused when some set of stored non-observable variables of the past cannot be transformed into observable variables within conscious at a present moment in time. Memory thus becomes an act of communication between a system S (the non-observable unconscious mind) and an observer O (what is observed by conscious mind). So, a picture of memory as a relationship would be S <----memory----> O.

 

Thus we see that memory is not a "thing" that can be lost, but it is a coding of information communication between S and O aspects of the mind that can be lost, this is how the above definition of memory helps explain how you 'lose my mind'.

 

Now, as the conscious mind loses the ability to communicate information with unconscious mind, an act that would require energy, as you say this potential energy available could be used elsewhere by conscious mind to form a concept of self, such as "to form a new you".

 

Finally, to say that you 'forget myself, literally' is explained by the above definition of memory if the concept MYSELF represents the unconscious non-observable variables stored as the past that the conscious mind can no longer communicate with, that is, what is forgotten is the process of coding information used in communication between S and O.

 

In summary, memory is not a THING that can be lost over time, it is INFORMATION CODING that can be lost, thus we FORGET how to code information over time, we do not forget things.

 

Let me know if this makes any sense to you (or not).

[paigetheoracle]

Emotion also has an important role in not forgetting. This research suggests that people with dementia may be good legal witness to emotional events that occur to them or others because they retain the ability to recall many details of emotional events, yet forget where they left the keys to car:

 

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/234132.pdf

 

One reason for this is because memory is stored in many different areas of the brain, so perhaps memory of emotional events one area of brain, and memory of where we leave keys to car another area, and this would be under genetic control, you get the picture.

 

Concerning genetics, the instructions of genetic control ultimately come down to sequence of nucleotides, and how that sequence is regulated along DNA molecule. Consider a plant you put by window. It has free energy to use. Why does it always bend and grow toward the direction of the source of light ? How many plants have you seen that lose the memory they have written in genetic code to bend toward light as they age ? If you did see one, how could such loss of memory be explained ? Why are there differences in aging and decline between the plant and you ? Why do you think your loss of memory as you age would be any different from a plant that losses memory how to bend toward light as it ages ? I ask so many questions because I sense you like to learn by asking questions then look for rational answers.

 

Very intuitive of you. I think statements lead to further questions, that in turn lead to deeper and deeper insights and more certainty of facts. I don't put out ideas and think that is the end of it but I notice it sometimes is, when my threads lead to zero replies.

 

I think emotional events have a deeper impact than intellectual awareness e.g you can remember getting your hand cut off in an accident or the lover that betrayed you but routine matters lack real significance from this perspective (You're not going to die or feel you are from the loss of your keys). The other point you make is less easy to dismiss. The point here is again significance and survival. A human might turn their back on the light because they feel hurt emotionally and suicidal (want to die) but a plant wouldn't, would it?

[paigetheoracle]

Here are some more observations Rade before I read your next post (Got a migraine bought on by pushing myself too hard last night: Too much in too short a time).

 

What I've noticed of late that interests me is that my childlike fascination for life just went suddenly and significantly - is this the maturation process or death of hope? (I've noticed that some people are like predators and seem to take pride in assassinating hope in others, murdering their optimism are these the free radicals in society's body?). Coupled with this is a return to familiar territory, in the form of horror stories which I used to read avariciously in my youth and am now writing in my dotage (recent study connected zombie interest in society with a downturn in the economy which makes perfect sense to me). I've also returned to an interest in music and am turning away from TV and films as visual stimulation. I see this as significant too in that I think of vision as an enthusiastic grasping hold of reality (concentration upon it) as music or sound disperses attention (relaxes our hold - moves our body rather than stills our mind).

 

I further see as a result of this care giving way to carelessness (the demoralized let go - the enthusiastic embrace life). If you let go of concentration, you not only lose perception of the current moment but memory too, from my experience. My migraines, which I mentioned at the start of this post, also fall into this pattern as I think nothing is ever insignificant. The intense concentration needed to hold onto and perceive anything accurately, to the exclusion of outside distractions, led to the intense headaches and now what do I get as I've learned to let go of my pains taking observations, is migraine vertigo from release of that attention.

 

I believe observing your life tells you so many things about other life from extrapolating outwards. I don't believe reality is meaningless and people who believe it is are simply refusing to examine it. This is what makes me a natural philosopher as they term it and a believer in the scientific method (When I'm dying I'll probably want to make notes about the process, even if incapable of doing so - even a tape recorder could only go so far).

[paigetheoracle]

This statement makes me wonder how do humans lose memory, that is, is lost of memory itself something like losing car keys, e.g., losing a 'thing' ? I offer this as a way to help explain why you get feelings of (1) lose my mind, (2) use energy to form a new me, (3) forget myself, literally, over time.

 

Here goes...

 

We start with a definition of memory as a relationship between present state of human mind "observable" via conscious now and past state stored in unconscious that is "non-observable" now. Using this definition memory becomes a relational concept that our mind invokes to fill the difference caused when some set of stored non-observable variables of the past cannot be transformed into observable variables within conscious at a present moment in time. Memory thus becomes an act of communication between a system S (the non-observable unconscious mind) and an observer O (what is observed by conscious mind). So, a picture of memory as a relationship would be S <----memory----> O.

 

Thus we see that memory is not a "thing" that can be lost, but it is a coding of information communication between S and O aspects of the mind that can be lost, this is how the above definition of memory helps explain how you 'lose my mind'.

 

Now, as the conscious mind loses the ability to communicate information with unconscious mind, an act that would require energy, as you say this potential energy available could be used elsewhere by conscious mind to form a concept of self, such as "to form a new you".

 

Finally, to say that you 'forget myself, literally' is explained by the above definition of memory if the concept MYSELF represents the unconscious non-observable variables stored as the past that the conscious mind can no longer communicate with, that is, what is forgotten is the process of coding information used in communication between S and O.

 

In summary, memory is not a THING that can be lost over time, it is INFORMATION CODING that can be lost, thus we FORGET how to code information over time, we do not forget things.

 

Let me know if this makes any sense to you (or not).

 

Yes I think I grasp what you're saying through a migraine fog. The unconscious you is unused potential - that which observes but is not what is observed (memorized or recorded information). Likewise the belief that the real self exists in time is false because it is temporary construct, that like memory will be lost over time - only the flow of data exists as energy, materializing into temporary form. I use the analogy of a volcano, where the lava is free, undifferentiated energy (potential) and the cone is formed solids or actual but temporary reality, that eventually breaks down into finer and finer particles, to be reabsorbed at some later date and melted back into energy, in the same way that plants die and re-fertilize the soil for future plant life (entropy of course would say that eventually this wouldn't happen and although I don't believe in built in obsolescence as a way of explaining human aging, wear and tear is seen in all nature from plants, to animals and even mineral existence*, I do believe science will one day learn to figure out how to change bodily cells so that they are self-repairing better than they are now, in order to prolong life (If I'm up to it, I intend putting up a thread in Theology about positive emotions and attitudes, prolonging life with presented evidence, if any).

 

* Everything put together falls apart (Paul Simon)

[Rade]

* Everything put together falls apart (Paul Simon)

Yes, and I would modify to say: Everything put together has potential to fall apart, and that which falls apart has potential to put together, Everything.

[ErlyRisa]

Yep, count yourself lucky though...

 

it's only going to get worse (societal)

 

...as Data rates increase, and reliance on the techno is surmount to the daily adage...

 

Humans will in effect be nothing more than, machines of the "cloud"

 

It's sad,

Completely TRUE

 

and

 

we have NO CHOICE

 

our generation, have to livem knowing that by the time we are 25, we are nothing more than

Demented robots, slaved to do the bidding of the infoholics:

-too: react, too

and, in order too

 

keep

 

that which is 90 yrs old and has the assets to procreate the info that is what is enslaving the youth

in order for, him/she, in effect too suffer the same consequence, because they asked too

LIVE forever.

 

Typical age of an old world Human (With knowledge), for the last 2000yrs = 56