Why don't we exploit whales commercially?

[Boerseun]

Buffy, I take your point(s). Well put, I might ad.

 

All I'm saying is that hypothetically, whales should be an economic form of protein (in terms of energy transfer between links in the food chain) seeing as they feed on plankton en masse.

 

Granted, in the past their numbers was demolished for silly things like oil lamps and corsets from the baleen, but saying we should not hunt them 'cause they don't breed fast enough is a fair reason, saying we shouldn't hunt them 'cause they possess some form of intelligence is not. We can't slaughter animals selectively because of purported stupidity, or the lack thereof, otherwise we'll have to start eating Republicans soon.

 

The same with dolphins. There's few things in the world that give me such a pain in the rectum than this whole New Age dolphin craze, where dolphins are imagined to be the "Wise Ones", or some such happy crap. I don't like them. And I don't dislike them. I am just exasperated with explaining to the New Agers that a dolphin isn't smiling - it's just a fixed expression due to the shape of its jaw that just happen to be a somewhat familiar expression to us humans.

 

If whalemeat taste bad, I suppose there won't be a market for it and the point is moot. I just thought debating this issue objectively could be interesting.

 

BTW - I read an interesting thing the other day where somebody argued that the reason babies are so cute is so that we don't kill them, and they have a better chance of survival. That's probably why there was such a furore about clubbing baby seals to death - 'cause they pull the same strings in adult humans as human babies do. Big, cute eyes, cute faces, the lot.

[Fishteacher73]

Actually the height of whaling was durring the 60's with the Soviet and Japanese fleets pulling in over 30,000 whales in 1965 alone. (The Whaling days of yore of the moby dick era it was estimated that only about 20,000 whales total were harvested).

[Kukucan]

BTW, I have a picture of myself in front of the White House wearing a "Kill a whale" T-shirt. ;)

I was wondering why there isn't a biology forum. ;)

[Kukucan]

this sounds just like "we have to destroy the village in order to save it"

Exactly!

 

;) If we kill anything to save the whale, it would make more sense to go after what is killing THEM. Yeah, why shouldn't humans be an economic form of protein? Plus, there's more than enough humans to go around. ;)

[bumab]

Cue Charlton Heston: "Soilent Green is people! It's pppeeeeeoooopppllleeee!"

 

Seriously though, species managment of useful food products has a less then stellar record, unless we domesticate them. Bison, for example, or the oxen in Asia. Domesticating whales, however, would most likely prove problematic, to say the least. Domestication is the only thing that has allowed our meat eating habits to continue, unabated.

 

 

 

 

Or try Soilent Yellow: Now with more girls!

[Kukucan]

There's few things in the world that give me such a pain in the rectum than this whole New Age dolphin craze, where dolphins are imagined to be the "Wise Ones", or some such happy crap. I don't like them. And I don't dislike them. I am just exasperated with explaining to the New Agers that a dolphin isn't smiling - it's just a fixed expression due to the shape of its jaw that just happen to be a somewhat familiar expression to us humans.

"New Agers" aren't the only ones who are against the killing of our highly intelligent mammalian brethren. :(

 

Should we also farm gorillas, orangutans, dogs? ;)

 

We must draw the line somewhere, dude! ;)

[Boerseun]

"New Agers" aren't the only ones who are against the killing of our highly intelligent mammalian brethren. :)

 

Should we also farm gorillas, orangutans, dogs? :D

 

We must draw the line somewhere, dude! ;)

 

Why?

 

What's the difference in slaughtering a cow, or a dog? A billion Chinese can't be wrong...

No, seriously, I probably wouldn't eat gorilla meat or dog meat, but I fail to see the distinction from a moral perspective.

 

BTW - after the Asian Tsunami in December last year, some Aussie scientist checked up on stats of previous earthquakes and found that in almost all cases, there was substantial whale beachings roughly a week before the quake. This supports the hypothesis that whales navigate using magnetic fields, which might get distorted in the time before a quake due to shifting stresses and tensions in the crust close to the epicenter.

I read in the paper today that there was a beaching of about 85 orcas somewhere in Aus yesterday.

So - if the Aussie was right, I suppose for the next week or so we should watch this space...

[ArthurDent]

The reason why whales, bison, cod and numerous other species have suffered devastating reduction in numbers is because they became commercially valuable while still wild. Exploitation of animals only works in conjunction with domestication and then even the animals benefit (in terms of numbers at least) as they are born into the possession of a farmer who will protect his commodity (fences, barns vets, food suppliment, fertility aids and AI etc. etc.) There is no danger of chickens or pigs or cows becoming endangered in the near future despite the astonishing popularity of their meat.

 

In fact, the secret to the survival of the giant panda is to become extemely tasty (and perhaps black and white fur coats to be the toast of the cat walk). Chinese panda farmers would soo find a way to get our furry friends to breed like rabbits if there was enough money in it.

 

As soon as McDonalds start selling a quarter panda with cheese their suvival is assured.

[Boerseun]

In fact, the secret to the survival of the giant panda is to become extemely tasty (and perhaps black and white fur coats to be the toast of the cat walk). Chinese panda farmers would soo find a way to get our furry friends to breed like rabbits if there was enough money in it.

 

As soon as McDonalds start selling a quarter panda with cheese their suvival is assured.

 

Hahaha!!! Quarter panda with cheese!!! Arthur old buddy old pal, you have just succeeded in cracking me up!!! :) :D ;)

The only problem I see with that, is that you say the panda has to become extremely tasty first - 'cause if it's extremely tasty, it won't feature on the McDonalds menu. Tastiness and McDonalds can't feature in the same sentence - it's a physical impossibility. If you force them together, the universe will collapse.

But seriously now - that's exactly what I've been saying. We just have to figure out a way to domesticate whales! Highly unlikely, but still...

[Chacmool]

"New Agers" aren't the only ones who are against the killing of our highly intelligent mammalian brethren. :)

 

Should we also farm gorillas, orangutans, dogs? :D

 

We must draw the line somewhere, dude! ;)

 

If intelligence determines whether a creature gets eaten or not, we should submit all animals to an intelligence test before slaughtering them. You might already have inadvertently consumed some very clever snails or sheep or fish! Would it then be OK to eat the stupid whales, dogs, dolphins and gorillas?

[Fishteacher73]

The main key to domestication is captive breeding. We have a very poor record of cetacean breeding in captivity.

[Boerseun]

...untill we put a price on their heads. Then there might be an incentive to improve on our whale-breeding techniques.

[Kukucan]

Why?

 

What's the difference in slaughtering a cow, or a dog? A billion Chinese can't be wrong...

No, seriously, I probably wouldn't eat gorilla meat or dog meat, but I fail to see the distinction from a moral perspective.

I used to wonder the same thing a few years ago, questioning food taboos. After learning more about these animals, my mind changed. Guess you're not a dog lover?... As for the Chinese, they also keep bears in tiny cages and "milk" their gall bladders.

[Kukucan]

Would it then be OK to eat the stupid whales, dogs, dolphins and gorillas?

It would likely be too costly to test individual intelligence, and this would doubtfully satisfy those against the systematic distruction of these beloved creatures.

[Kukucan]

...untill we put a price on their heads. Then there might be an incentive to improve on our whale-breeding techniques.

Haven't you ever been to Sea World or seen the movie Free Willie? Whales are not just intelligent, they also have the ability to communicate. They even seem to display some of the same emotions as humans. We still have much to learn about them, and they are of greater scientific value alive. Wild whales may also become more fearful of humans from hearing the cries and moans of the captave whales, who can't be kept too far from the sea, becoming more difficult for marine biologists to study.

 

And after all, it was not elephant farming which ensured the survival of the wild African elephant, it was a ban on ivory.

[Tormod]

seen the movie Free Willie?

 

Hehe...do you know where Keiko (aka Willy) went after he was released into the wild?

 

(Hint: one of the most hated whale-hunting countries of the world)

[Boerseun]

Okaaaaay... but once again: What's the difference between milking a bear's gall bladder, and tearing any given other animal apart and eating the pieces? There seem to be some inconsistencies here. And yes, I do love dogs, and own a couple myself - but I don't hate chickens either, for that matter. They do taste great, though!