Magnetic Perpetual Motion Generators (Unlimited Energy Source)

[cal]

So a bunch of these kinds of videos exist showing how to make basic generators out of perpetual motion mechanics that are kept in perpetual motion with a little magnetic help. Now to quickly deter anyone who will argue that perpetual motion is impossible because of loss of energy and friction and air resistance, I say unto you that all those things are weak forces, easily beaten by a much stronger magnetic force, like one shown in the linked videos.

 

"Oh, but that video only shows a tiny device, a much larger generator could not possibly sustain perpetual motion even with magnets!" And to you I say

.

 

Now you might be saying, well if this is so easy and possible, why is there no company selling these free-energy generators that would create an unlimited power source for all time to come? It's that exact reason that these aren't being mass-produced. Hundreds of thousands of people would lose their jobs at Edison (or any other electrical company) if these generators were mass produced, and the companies will be hemorrhaging money until they declare bankruptcy, it would destabilize a rather significant part of the world economy. So that's the down side, but the upside is unlimited electrical energy anywhere you went, as the size of these generators can be massive or tiny (the tiny ones can be carried around and would be able to power flashlights, phones, etc).

 

So far I think the pros outweigh the cons, I could care less if the Edison company finally comes to terms with making Tesla die alone and penniless. The only major problem I can think of that would make this not work is the limited amount of neodymium (or whatever strong magnetic alternative used) that can be produced, but dinosaur juice is limited as well and we've done just fine by it so far.

 

I'm thinking if someone patented this kind of generator (probably already is) and then made a kick-starter/indiegogo to fund the initial manufacturing, then it could take off. Thoughts, comments, complaints?

Edited June 23, 2013 by Snax

[phillip1882]

as far as I'm aware you cant get more power out of a magnet than you put into it.

I've had fridge magnets that wear out after about 10 years, and that's just from attaching them and removing them from the fridge.

never the less these videos are fascinating.

Edited June 23, 2013 by phillip1882

[CraigD]

Now to quickly deter anyone who will argue that perpetual motion is impossible because of loss of energy and friction and air resistance, I say unto you that all those things are weak forces, easily beaten by a much stronger magnetic force, like one shown in the linked videos.

I say unto you, Snax, that to understand, sensibly discuss, and, more critically, avoid falling prey to the many grifters attending this subject, you need to learn basic physics. Energy and force are not the same. Energy is equivalent to work, and work is force multiplied by the distance over which the force is applied. Until you have an intuitive lock on this key concept, you’ll find it difficult to impossible to understand the reason that people with a sound physics education insist perpetual motion machines of the first kind (also sometimes called “over unity” and “free energy”) are impossible.

 

Even without a sound physics education, you should know to be wary of claims supported by videos, but never validated in the presence of neutral third parties. This is the case with over unity machines: many have been proposed, attracted substantial money investments from people unable to understand scientific explanations of their impossibility, and ultimately failed to perform as claimed when demonstrated other than by their promoters. Conspiracy theories claiming that these failures are the result of energy industry sabotage and suppression abound (a fictional version of a common one, The Water Engine even had a run as a Broadway play in the 1970s, and a TV movie in the 1990s). But the fact remains that not one of these devices has ever actually worked as claimed.

 

Now you might be saying, well if this is so easy and possible, why is there no company selling these free-energy generators that would create an unlimited power source for all time to come? It's that exact reason that these aren't being mass-produced. Hundreds of thousands of people would lose their jobs at Edison (or any other electrical company) if these generators were mass produced, and the companies will be hemorrhaging money until they declare bankruptcy, it would destabilize a rather significant part of the world economy.

Your claim is essentially identical to the one made in The Water Engine, and countless conspiracy theories.

 

Ignoring science and assuming that an PMM of the 1st kind were possible, I think this argument falls apart when considered from purely a business and historic perspective. The companies that supply energy in all forms – petroleum fuels, line-delivered electricity, etc – are always interested in new devices that allow them to reduce their cost of producing this energy, even when this results in them employing fewer people, so would be eager to produce, distribute, and support over unity devices. These companies’ loyalties are not primarily to their workers, but to their owners and shareholders. Were a technology that could increase their profits available, and their leaders engage in a purposeful campaign to suppress it to save the jobs of their workers, shareholders would be legally entitled to sue them for this loss of potential profits. For these and other reasons, modern corporations rarely fail to embrace technology that increases their profits, even if only for a short time.

 

I'm thinking if someone patented this kind of generator (probably already is) and then made a kick-starter/indiegogo to fund the initial manufacturing, then it could take off.

A quick search of kickstarter.com for the terms “perpetual motion”, “over unity” and “free energy” finds only projects for films on the subject, not projects seeking money to build such machines. Because one of Kickstarter’s rules is “Kickstarter cannot be used to sell equity or solicit loans”, I don’t think it’s likely that it’s the right crowdfunding platform for an large engineering project. The lack of finds for these search terms makes me suspect that they have a policy not stated on the above linked to page banning such projects.

 

A search of Indiegogo.com for “free energy” on the other hand, finds several, though none I saw with much funding.

 

Thoughts, comments, complaints?

I think it’s important to distinguish proposals and claims for PMMs of the 1st kind, which are scientifically impossible, from ones for proposals for machines that use unusual sources of energy, which are not. Machines powered by magnets, where the magnets “run down” and must be periodically replaced or recharged, are of the latter kind.

 

We discussed alternative energy in the 2005 thread Forget Oil - Contest: Find a substitute for oil, getting around specifically to the subject of magnet-fueled motors in Jan 2008. Beginning with this post, I explained why I think such motors are, in principle, possible, but that most people proposing them have their basic physics exactly backwards in assuming that they would consume magnetized material, and produces demagnetized material as waste.

 

I’ve long hoped that I or someone would calculate a reasonable estimate of the fuel energy density of such a motor, which I suspect is very low compared to common fuels. I’ve also been waiting for suggestions about how such a motor could practically be built – though it’s fairly obvious that demagnetized magnetic materials have magnetic energy, how it could be extracted, even as a commercially worthless demonstration, baffled and continues to baffle me.

[SaxonViolence]

Try "The Battery of Hate" by John W Campbell:

 

http://www.insidedoc.com/john-w-campbell-the-battery-of-hatef-2316.html

 

So far as I know, there is nothing impossible in principle about the Fuel Battery he imagines.

 

I understand that Perpetual Motion is crack-brained by folks who don't understand Maxwell's Equations, The Conservation of Mass/Energy and Entropy...

 

But is there in way we could imagine that somehow someone made it work?

 

What Fundamental Principles of Physics would need to be re-thought?

 

We know that matter and energy Antimatter combine to wield pure energy.

 

What if there was a very low-energy cost way to convert Matter into Anti-Matter...

 

Or to get a small amount of Matter to turn to Pure Energy As If it had encountered Anti Matter?

 

Yeah well, it won't happen, but can we deduce anything useful and interesting about the results If It Did?

 

 

Saxon Violence

Edited July 1, 2013 by SaxonViolence

[C1ay]

Those that become infected with the dream of free energy should always take the time to remind themselves that the multitude of gifted engineers and physicists before them have not developed such machines. If such simple machines, like the one in the video, were so easily produced they would be widely available, but they're not. Ask yourself why and explore the answer to that question before you expend the energy to attempt creating things that the physicists before you failed to do.

[Guest Aemilius]

I don't believe the scheme presented here will work either C1ay (nice to meet you!), but, on the other hand, perhaps what those infected with too rigid an adherence only to what the multidude of gifted engineers and physicists that have gone before them have accomplished should take the time to remind themselves that it was a couple of high school dropout bicycle salesmen that achieved controlled powered human flight.

 

So another good question one could ask might be.... Why were two early nineteenth century high school dropout bicycle salesmen able to accomplish what the multitude of gifted engineers and physicists that went before them could not?

 

Just a thought.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Aemilius

[Aethelwulf]

C1ay said

 

''Those that become infected with the dream of free energy should always take the time''

 

 

 

Time and energy are conjugates under Noethers theorem. If a person understands the physical nature of time they could in theory understand energy and vice versa.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Aethelwulf

[C1ay]

One should also keep in mind that Newton's 1st law implies that all motion is constant, i.e. perpetual, until acted on by a force. Attempts to extract energy from that motion are a force.

[cal]

as far as I'm aware you cant get more power out of a magnet than you put into it.

I've had fridge magnets that wear out after about 10 years, and that's just from attaching them and removing them from the fridge.

never the less these videos are fascinating.

You aren't putting any power into it (or a very tiny amount to reroute the fields), neodymium is a permanent magnet (should last a bit longer than 10 years, it's not fridge-quality) and most of them would not be moving so I think those bits are taken care of. Also, yea, the videos blow my mind.

 

 

Until you have an intuitive lock on this key concept, you’ll find it difficult to impossible to understand the reason that people with a sound physics education insist perpetual motion machines of the first kind (also sometimes called “over unity” and “free energy”) are impossible.

I never said such a thing was possible, I paraphrased that perpetual motion machines that are rather efficient can be put into perpetual motion with a little boost in force, given to them, in this case, by magnets.

 

 

Your claim is essentially identical to the one made in The Water Engine, and countless conspiracy theories.

I don't think it's much of a conspiracy theory, they've been fighting against solar panels for home use for a while now in Cali because you can be almost entirely self-sufficient off them. I mean, energy & power are huge global industries, and threatening to make it free is a serious thing. I don't see it as crazy to think that the electrical companies probably don't want self-sufficient electrical sources to be commercially available.

 

 

Ignoring science and assuming that an PMM of the 1st kind were possible, I think this argument falls apart ...

I'm not claiming that PPMs are possible, I'm claiming that we can manipulate magnetism to supply energy in localized generators, requiring exponentially lower input energy.

 

You were also saying that electrical companies would probably jump on this kind of technology, and maybe they wanted to, but I'm pretty sure this is patented out the butt and maybe there were legal issues over using it? Either that or they tried it and just didn't value it, OR they really don't want something this efficient that can be localized thus cutting off the need for an electrical company in the first place. Sure they can spare to cut some employees, but not all of them. Think about it.

 

 

A quick search of kickstarter.com for the terms “perpetual motion”, “over unity” and “free energy” finds only projects for films on the subject, not projects seeking money to build such machines. Because one of Kickstarter’s rules is “Kickstarter cannot be used to sell equity or solicit loans”, I don’t think it’s likely that it’s the right crowdfunding platform for an large engineering project. The lack of finds for these search terms makes me suspect that they have a policy not stated on the above linked to page banning such projects.

 

A search of Indiegogo.com for “free energy” on the other hand, finds several, though none I saw with much funding.

The kickstarter thing requires you to have product already available to sell basically (if it isn't software or media) so that's probably why it isn't on kickstarter. I'm surprised you found any even on indiegogo, because I assumed this kind of stuff was rather new and probably didn't have a strong following yet (maybe that's why there's no funding for it)?

 

 

We discussed alternative energy in the 2005 thread Forget Oil - Contest: Find a substitute for oil, getting around specifically to the subject of magnet-fueled motors in Jan 2008. Beginning with this post, I explained why I think such motors are, in principle, possible, but that most people proposing them have their basic physics exactly backwards in assuming that they would consume magnetized material, and produces demagnetized material as waste.

DD basically has the same idea I do, I guess I'm a copycat, but after reading through your posts with him, he still seems more correct than you. I understand what you're saying about weak magnets having the same potential energy, but we want raw mechanical work to be done, in which case a strong magnet is preferable, and also in which case will eventually yield a weaker magnet (maybe, I have a separate thing I'm going to start about magnetic elasticity).

 

 

I’ve long hoped that I or someone would calculate a reasonable estimate of the fuel energy density of such a motor, which I suspect is very low compared to common fuels. I’ve also been waiting for suggestions about how such a motor could practically be built – though it’s fairly obvious that demagnetized magnetic materials have magnetic energy, how it could be extracted, even as a commercially worthless demonstration, baffled and continues to baffle me.

It's almost as if you didn't watch the linked videos in the original post. May I suggest you do that? Even if you already watched them, watch them again. Commercially worthless demonstrations have been performed, I linked one of them. I think you are asking about what to do with the *depleted* magnet bars you would yield from the motor, no? I guess you could try re-magnetizing them but that seems like you'd just be using up the energy you produced with them, defeating the purpose. I'll come back to this at the very bottom.

 

 

Those that become infected with the dream of free energy should always take the time to remind themselves that the multitude of gifted engineers and physicists before them have not developed such machines. If such simple machines, like the one in the video, were so easily produced they would be widely available, but they're not. Ask yourself why and explore the answer to that question before you expend the energy to attempt creating things that the physicists before you failed to do.

I was being liberal with my use of "free energy" but I see what you mean. I don't think an efficient version of this type of motor would be simple, but I do think they are easy to produce, as the linked videos show. I have asked myself, like you suggested, as to why they are not widely available, a question to which I had already answered in the original post and the answer of which I stand by simply because you must have failed to read it. I don't think the engineers and physicists failed to do what I am proposing, I am proposing it because they succeeded. I have hopes that the electrical companies find a way to make profit off of localized self-sufficient devices like this so that they will be "widely available" like commercial solar power is finally starting to be (despite it being fought so violently).

______________________________________

 

Side note, maybe having a secondary device that re-magnetizes the *depleted* bars by using energy provided by solar panels would create the "perfect" self-sustaining system I am envisioning? Thoughts on this side note?

 

Also, Aemilius has a good point. I don't think I've stumbled across an amazing discovery that no other person before me has been able to figure out, after all I'm linking other people's work. I'm just trying to bring to light something that seems to be readily discarded by the same kind of people who said we'd never break the sound barrier. That's all. =P

Edited June 27, 2013 by Snax

[CraigD]

Try "The Battery of Hate" by John W Campbell...

... and my golden age SF reading is improved by another increment by this 1933 Amazing Science Fiction magazine story – thanks, SV. :thumbs_up

 

An interesting ending twist to the story is

that, after a quick purge of some obstructive, criminal folk, the new technology is licensed to “the oil companies.”

It’s really not in the same family of “suppressed technology” conspiracy theories stories as The Water Engine

 

So far as I know, there is nothing impossible in principle about the Fuel Battery he imagines.

I agree. Cambell’s story is about a small, light very efficient machine with no moving parts (other than something to blow atmospheric oxygen through it) that combines carbon and oxygen, producing electricity, presumably (the story doesn’t say, but it’s hard to imagine any other possible chemical reaction) producing mostly CO₂ and some CO as waste. There exist machines that can do this now – coal-powered electric power-plants, which worldwide average about 31% efficiency, in the best case, about 49% - but which are not very small, light, and efficient, and have lots of moving parts. Most carbon-burning power plants burn coal in the bituminous to anthracite grade range, which is 70 to 98% carbon, unlike the fictional “Kennedy fuel battery”, which burns (with no heat waste issues!) graphite (which is technically considered coal), which is practically 100%, but this is only because these less pure coal grades are abundant, cheap, and ignite at lower, more manageable temperatures (450 to 600 C, vs 630) than pure graphite.

 

So the fictional “Kennedy fuel battery” only about halves fuel needs and carbon emissions compared to conventional coal burning. It makes for a good SF adventure story, because it’s small and light,

so can be used in cars, planes, and to the downfall Kennedy and Donovan’s rich, villainous adversary Gardner, a rapid-fire Gauss gun!

. Practically speaking, though, it wouldn’t a dramatic improvement over existing lightweight vehicle powerplants.

 

On a side note, I’ve long found it interesting that, troubled as they were by lack of liquid fossil fuels during WWII, German engineers designed coal-powered jet aircraft engines, the Lippisch P.13a being I think the most famous example. Thought the end of the war and availability of liquid jet fuel (kerosene) ended most interest in them, I believe present day engineers are opine that these 1940s coal-powered jet engines would have worked as intended.

 

I understand that Perpetual Motion is crack-brained by folks who don't understand Maxwell's Equations, The Conservation of Mass/Energy and Entropy...

 

But is there in way we could imagine that somehow someone made it work?

 

What Fundamental Principles of Physics would need to be re-thought?

By definition, a PMM of the 1st kind violates conservation of energy, so if one were found to exist, pretty much require the rewriting of all physics, from about 1700 AD, would need to be rewritten.

 

It would also take some fancy intellectual footwork to explain why the visible universe isn’t full of such violations, and along with that, imaging what it would be like if it did: astronomical-scale objects that create mass/energy, which in turn create more mass/energy and so on, requiring some sort of mechanism to prevent the universe from evolving toward an infinite energy density state – or, to put it colloquially and succinctly, the whole universe going to hell.

 

PMMs of the 2nd kind violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics. If they were found to exist, we’d only have to explain why everything that isn’t them follows the 2nd law – that is, why engines only run one way, producing useful power and waste heat, rather than backwards, sucking up heat in the absence of heat difference to produce useful power. There some pretty profound impacts of such an idea on information theory, leading ultimately to some mind-blowing epistemological conclusions and arrow-of-time stuff, so again, some difficult explaining would be needed to account for why reality appears as it does, rather than as something entirely different.

 

Most “free energy” ideas by people who know enough physics to understand basic mechanics and imagine scenarios like the above aren’t about PMM of the 1st or 2nd kind, though, but about machines that can use, without violating any classical mechanical laws, energy that isn’t commonly thought of as available. My take on them is that they all orbit around the quantum mechanics underlying the Casimir effect, a real, experimentally verified effect that shows that “some force with no classical mechanical explanation” predicted by quantum mechanics can, with some very careful experimental setup, be demonstrated. Casimir effect experiments require large expenditures of energy in order to produce and measure tiny amounts of “free energy”, so the thinking is that if somehow this tremendously low efficiency ratio can be tremendously improved – which is not, to the best of my understanding, in principle impossible, practically unlimited amounts of energy could be (for lack of a better phrase than I can come up with at the moment) “extracted from quantum weirdness.” The “why isn’t the universe spontaneously evolving toward an infinite density hell” conundrum is a bit easier to answer with these scenarios: the conditions needed to produce power via the Casimir effect with a machine that requires less power than it produces is so unlikely to happen other than due to the artifice of super-smart, physics-aware people, that it doesn’t happen much, if at all, in the history of the universe.

 

The only reasonable, though very speculative idea for how to accomplish such an improvement in Casimir effect machine efficiency come from this explanation of sonoluminescence – small flashes of light produced by collapsing bubbles in liquid liquids caused by sound. I have a vague recollection of some possibly shady work on the subject a decade or so ago, which look to me to have been buried under a heaps of free energy conspiracy theory crap too dense to easily pick through with an internet search engine. Most of these pursue the idea tha sonoluminescence can be used to create tiny nuclear fusion explosions releasing more energy than required to produce the sound, rather than the Casimir effect explanation.

 

We know that matter and energy combine to wield pure energy.

I believe you mean we know matter and antimatter combine to yield energy. This is well known, and commonly and rigorously demonstrated.

 

What if there was a very low-energy cost way to convert Matter into Anti-Matter...

All credible physics requires the creation of antimatter – which is pretty commonplace in physics labs large and small these days – to obey the law of conservation of energy, so there almost certainly is no way to create antimatter – or matter – with less energy than it’s mass is equivalent to, per the famous [imath]E = mc^2[/imath]. Best present day machines create it at very low efficiencies, on the order of 10,000,000 to 1 (0.00001%)

 

Even though better than 100% efficiency is theoretically impossible, there are lots of attractive reasons to manufacture and store antimatter for use as fuel, the main one being that no higher fuel energy density is possible. A quick calculation shows that our entire world could, even assuming typical machine efficiencies, run on about 5 kg of antimatter fuel per day, and that a Saturn V rocket could be replaced with one needing less than .001 kg (1 gram) of antimatter fuel.

 

The late Robert L Forward was a big proponent of using antimatter fuel. His 1995 alternating science fiction/fact chapters book Indistinguishable from Magic was IMHO the best exploration and promotion of the subject then written, and may well remain unmatched. A few years earlier, in 1991 around the same time, graphic artists Rick Sternbach and Michael Okuda, famed for their design and “technical consultant” work on the Star Trek movies and TV episodes, wrote in the fictional Star Trek The Next Generation Technical Manual, wrote

The antimatter used in propulsion is generated at major Starfleet refueling facilities by combined solar-fusion charge reversal devices, which process proton and neutron beams into antineuterons, joined by a positron beam accelerator to produce antihydrogen, specifically heavy hydrogen known as deuterium. Unfortunately there is a net energy loss of 24% using this process.

pretty much cementing in STrek fan orthodoxy the power engineering scheme Forward and other were promoting nonfictionally.

 

Physics of STrek websites, good and bad, abound on the internet. This one, which has the Sternbach and Okuda WTTNGTM text I quoted above, looks to me like a good one, for scientific accuracy.

 

Or to get a small amount of Matter to turn to Pure Energy As If it had encountered Anti Matter?

Small amounts of matter do turn into pure energy all the time – in modern physics, this is essentially the explanation for all work/energy mechanics. Though not necessary in classical mechanics, the conversion of mass into energy, and vice-versa, is essential for understanding the decay or radioactive elements, nuclear fission such as used in nuclear reactors, and nuclear fusion such as used by the Sun and in the largest atomic bombs.

 

Antimatter is created and annihilated in many ordinary interactions also – it’s actually very commonplace stuff we’re all in contact with all the time – ordinary matter, including the stuff our bodies are made of, actually emit it – but in miniscule quantities.

 

No human effort is needed for this to happen: it’s just how nature works.

[cal]

So, forgetting anti-matter Craig, why can't solar power juices be used to re-magnetize depleted neodymium bars?

 

To me it seems that re-magnetizing these bars with the almost limitless source of energy, our sun, would fix the problem of the magnets becoming too weak for the motor to work. And by that I mean using solar panels to collect enough energy for use in realigning the fields of the depleted bars.

 

Is this not a viable way to make the things discussed in my original post work? If one of these magnet-based motors was in your attic, supplying your house with electricity, couldn't you just have a second set of bars charging outside in your back yard for when the ones in the motor run out? Or better yet, hook up the solar panel on your roof directly to the motor in your attic and set it up electromagnet style for even greater output. No?

 

I'm not trying to argue that magnetic motors are the greatest source or most efficient source of energy currently available (and certainly not the most efficient possible with future technologies), I am just saying that this is a good launching point for localized self-sustaining energy sources to be utilized by the average person (in any country btw, so it would help solve a lot of Africa's infrastructure issues because you wouldn't need power lines). Either this or finding a way to make large-scale solar power farms much more feasible; or to make solar power for individual houses much more feasible and completely off-the-grid so you still wouldn't have to use some other company's electrical utility service.

 

I mean, oil is going to run out at some point, but solar power will never run out, even after our sun blows up because by then we'll be in other solar systems hopefully. Also magnets never run out if you keep realigning the fields, so the combination of the two seems good to me. What say you?

[CraigD]

So, forgetting anti-matter Craig, why can't solar power juices be used to re-magnetize depleted neodymium bars?

Solar power can be used to do practically anything. It can be used to generate electricity, which can then be used to produce a strong magnetic field, which can be used to magnetize a piece of neodymium-iron alloy (Nd₂Fe₁₄B – note that, like most iron alloys, this is mostly iron) or other ferromagnetic material.

 

However, when protected properly against excessive heat and mechanical damage, neodymium permanent magnets are effectively permanent – that is, whatever machine they are in will breakdown long before they lose magnetic field strength. Using them in electric motors, or devices such as the hoax perpetual motion machines common on youtube, doesn’t “use them up”.

 

Is this not a viable way to make the things discussed in my original post work?

The problem with motors that claim to produce power from no source of energy, or by getting energy by “using up” permanent magnets, is that they simply don’t work, in principle or practice. Such a motor has never powered a home, a car, or anything else. Every first-hand claim that this has been done so is fraudulent. People who believe and repeat this claim have been deceived. People who pay money to be given information on how to build these devices, or for finished devices, have been defrauded.

 

I’ve tried to explain why this is so using physics, but if you don’t find this convincing, and have a little disposable money, you might be convinced by buying plans for one of these devices, or if you can, a finished device, and learning from direct experience that it will not do what its promoter’s claim.

 

A website that sells immediately dowloadable plans for such a device, for prices starting at US$37, is http://www.magnetmotorlab.com. This website claims:

Magnetic motor can be built as a small, compressed system able to power a room or multiple equipment, to a bigger system able to deliver electricity to your whole residence. Your utility bills would be virtually eliminated with either the creation of a additional unit or the creation of a larger unit.

 

With all of the above considerations in mind, it can be said that a DIY electric FREE energy is a one-time venture in terms of investment and it quickly pays for itself within a few months, if not weeks. If you make your mind up to employ one of the DIY magnetic motors on a full-scale, it will easily and independently provide sufficient electrical power to your household, which means you'll never have to pay huge bills to the power company again!

However, be warned that these claims are false.

[cal]

Solar power can be used to do practically anything. It can be used to generate electricity...

Yea now that I think about it solar power is pretty much a cure all in places that don't get heavy cloud coverage.

 

 

However, when protected properly against excessive heat and mechanical damage, neodymium permanent magnets are effectively permanent – that is, whatever machine they are in will breakdown long before they lose magnetic field strength.

I feel like that can be utilized somehow and yet you keep saying it can't. =(

 

 

I’ve tried to explain why this is so using physics, but if you don’t find this convincing, and have a little disposable money, you might be convinced by buying plans for one of these devices, or if you can, a finished device, and learning from direct experience that it will not do what its promoter’s claim.

You know what, I will take you up on this challenge, granted it may be a while before I get the materials for it, but my dad has the machinery for crafting custom parts so I guess I'll attempt this no matter how futile for the sake of giving me something to do. I don't want to buy plans from a site, that seems lame to me, I'm thinking I'll sketch some things out and post them up here for you to harp on me. Worst case scenario I get something that spins for quite a while and effectively produces a current, right?

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

CraigD- However, when protected properly against excessive heat and mechanical damage, neodymium permanent magnets are effectively permanent – that is, whatever machine they are in will breakdown long before they lose magnetic field strength. Using them in electric motors, or devices such as the hoax perpetual motion machines common on youtube, doesn’t “use them up”.

Prolonged exposure to strong magnetic fields (I'm fairly certain a N to N or S to S, possibly alternating. Storage for magnets usually is done S to N ) reduces the usable force a permanent magnet produces (a frequently seen warning wherever rare earth magnets are sold).

 

I've not forgotten the whole weaker magnet vs stronger magnet discussion the thread you linked to.

 

But it is entirely and easily provable that the useful force created by a permanent magnet decreases over time....the magnet itself may not grow weaker according to your attempts to set me straight in the other thread but the amount of useful work it can do will steadily decrease over time as the poles within the magnet align as pictured here http://scienceforums...post__p__201800

 

Please feel free to correct me if I'm misunderstanding the degradation process magnets undergo over time or prolonged exposure to strong magnetic fields.

To my mind's eye it is exactly the reverse of the process used to make a magnet usable. Which would mean exposure to a magnetic field opposite of the field used to render the magnet useful when it was manufactured. Resulting not in weaker fields within the magnet but the fields returning to their original alignment.

Edited July 12, 2013 by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

[David98201]

I feel with enough car battries solar pannaling a power inverter industral electric moter and generator with phone poll capasaters for storage you could make enough juice to power a decent size home plus feed back into your local grid if the grid could handel it also two fourty thousand gallon water tanks one elevated the other in ground with water pump flowing through a hyrdo-eletric generator again having plenty of car battries solar pannaling with capasters well their it kinda is but solar is kinda a cheat but you have pull all free resorces sounds pretty solid to me any in-put

 

[Ufopolitics]

Hello to All,

I agree 100% with Matthew Garon.

Just as a fact:  Neodymium Magnets loose energy (sorry, magnetization) in a rate of 5% per 100 years...

If we analyze "lightly", the Two(2) Laws which Science keeps as constraint to build a Magnetic Motion Perpetual Machine...will realize that these laws basically apply to Thermo=Heat Dynamics=Motion... in closed systems.
These Laws were written when the Steam Engines were "State of the Art"...and then of course, they also easily were "applied" to Diesel and Gas Engines, since they are all based on Internal Explosion within an enclosed environment.
A Fully Magnet Motor (Magnets in Rotor and Stator) would never produce, or generate ANY heat because of 'Temporary' magnetic frictions that will make it run.  

Back in 1966, a German Mechanic Engineer, Friedrich Lüling, discovered, after working on it for around 12 years....that Magnetic Forces could be ¨Temporarily Neutralized¨...and the law which rules this fact, is very well known to all:

"Opposed  (Vector) Forces of the same Magnitude will cancel to zero" 

Regards

 

Ufopolitics

Edited October 21, 2021 by Ufopolitics