Significant Ufo Sighting, 1964

[Moontanman]

from your link...

 

Flame about twice as wide at bottom as top, and about four times as high as top was wide. Did not notice any object at top, did not note if top of flame was level. Sun was to west and did not help vision. Had green sun glasses over prescription glasses. Could not see bottom of flame because it was behind the hill. no smoke noted.

 

 

Neener neener neener...

[Turtle]

from your link...

 

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Neener neener neener...

 

Frustrating that using Reply leaves inner quotes out. :rant: Whatever. We see it just above.

 

I never made smoke an issue, so I don't understand why you neenered me. I may cry. :cry:

 

You still can't rule out kites per my evidence and arguments and neener can Hynek or Pope or any other bird-of-your-feather that you trot out. I am still right about this event and y'all still wrong. :smart:

Edited July 1, 2013 by Turtle

[Moontanman]

Frustrating that using Reply leaves inner quotes out. :rant: Whatever. We see it just above.

 

I never made smoke an issue, so I don't understand why you neenered me. I may cry. :cry:

 

You still can't rule out kites per my evidence and arguments and neener can Hynek or Pope or any other bird-of-your-feather that you trot out. I am still right about this event and y'all still wrong. :smart:

 

I can rule out kites with fire works or fire works type rockets because they always leave a dense stream of smoke, no smoke seen ie it could not have been a rocket powered kite and since it was propelled by a flame it wasn't just a kite. B)

[Turtle]

I can rule out kites with fire works or fire works type rockets because they always leave a dense stream of smoke, no smoke seen ie it could not have been a rocket powered kite and since it was propelled by a flame it wasn't just a kite. B)

 

What I described however was a propane/butane/methane/we-all-tane burner, inverted, and possibly driving a tuned mechanical "siren" to make the roar. In this case the kite is just a kite, and since the only witness did not see the 2 characters leave, he also did not see them toss the kite up while giving the high sign to the guy(s) in the car -around the hill out of witnesses sight- who then slowly accelerated at first and then faster as they towed the kite with attached flaming-but-smokless burner. The two then got in the car the cop was orignally chasing -also around the hill- and off they drove.

 

I haven't marked up the map, but you seem to think it of no interest so I blew it off. I have studied it more though, and I think I see the steep hill -actually a steep side of a long mesa- just West of the Bullseye I marked using the Wiki article. The bullseye also roughly match the new facts I uncovered on street names. So, the tow car would be just SW of bullseye and around the end of the mesa out of sight of witness. So as described above, once the cop gets up there, they drive off towing the kite. They head SW over dirt road & hit Hwy 60 and that road also turns behind bluffs/mountains. The other drivers only see the thing in the air and pay no attention to the car towing it as it is far removed.

 

Now as that Exposed article says at one point it was a balloon, that would work as well as a kite in fitting the slow launch, fast departure & low pass over the tourists who stopped and told the gas attendent & then disappeared. Tow a balloon at 40mph on a couple hundred feet of line and see what it does. You do know that even Hynek thought the witness something of a village idiot, right?

Soooooo the Turtle killed Hynek with a White Oval Kite on the Mesa. Get a clue.

 

You & your community want to believe this incident was aliens, fine. I keep hearing about how open your minds are & that it is me who is close-minded, and yet when I go about an open-minded analysis of the data you give as evidence & incorporate it into the facts of "conventional" means of flight, you suddenly go stupid. You have made little to no effort on your own here other than to mouth the phrases of some-or-another UFO's-are-aliens mouthpiece. I have had to drag you kicking & screaming every step of the way and you're pouting still. good grief. :doh:

 

 

Seems to me y'all are so open minded that your brains have simply fallen out. :P

[Moontanman]

What I described however was a propane/butane/methane/we-all-tane burner, inverted, and possibly driving a tuned mechanical "siren" to make the roar. In this case the kite is just a kite, and since the only witness did not see the 2 characters leave, he also did not see them toss the kite up while giving the high sign to the guy(s) in the car -around the hill out of witnesses sight- who then slowly accelerated at first and then faster as they towed the kite with attached flaming-but-smokless burner. The two then got in the car the cop was orignally chasing -also around the hill- and off they drove.

 

I haven't marked up the map, but you seem to think it of no interest so I blew it off. I have studied it more though, and I think I see the steep hill -actually a steep side of a long mesa- just West of the Bullseye I marked using the Wiki article. The bullseye also roughly match the new facts I uncovered on street names. So, the tow car would be just SW of bullseye and around the end of the mesa out of sight of witness. So as described above, once the cop gets up there, they drive off towing the kite. They head SW over dirt road & hit Hwy 60 and that road also turns behind bluffs/mountains. The other drivers only see the thing in the air and pay no attention to the car towing it as it is far removed.

 

Now as that Exposed article says at one point it was a balloon, that would work as well as a kite in fitting the slow launch, fast departure & low pass over the tourists who stopped and told the gas attendent & then disappeared. Tow a balloon at 40mph on a couple hundred feet of line and see what it does. You do know that even Hynek thought the witness something of a village idiot, right?

Soooooo the Turtle killed Hynek with a White Oval Kite on the Mesa. Get a clue.

 

You & your community want to believe this incident was aliens, fine. I keep hearing about how open your minds are & that it is me who is close-minded, and yet when I go about an open-minded analysis of the data you give as evidence & incorporate it into the facts of "conventional" means of flight, you suddenly go stupid. You have made little to no effort on your own here other than to mouth the phrases of some-or-another UFO's-are-aliens mouthpiece. I have had to drag you kicking & screaming every step of the way and you're pouting still. good grief. :doh:

 

 

Seems to me y'all are so open minded that your brains have simply fallen out. :P

 

 

OK, I missed your link, I'll take the world of the College Professor, you caught me, I didn't know there was someone who admitted it was a hoax.... It still seems a bit contrived as an explanation. if I was going to make such an elaborate hoax I would have done it someplace where more people would have seen it and the timing was so good I wonder how many times they had to practice it and the other sighting with very similar details, did they do that one as well?

 

But I have not begun to fight, there are lots more sightings that well represented with data.

 

http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case104.htm

 

The Coyne case (or "Army helicopter incident") stands out as, perhaps the most credible (in the "high strangeness" category) of the 1973 wave. An Army Reserve helicopter crew of four men encountered a gray, metallic-looking, cigar-shaped object, with unusual lights and maneuvers, as they were airborne between Columbus and Cleveland, Ohio.

 

BTW google earth locks up my computer, sorry I couldn't find the roads names for you... all I can do is looks up local maps and that takes forever...

[Turtle]

OK. I have the map mark-up. Court House near top with green marker. Vertical street to west of Court House is Park South; crossing it in green is Spring. Another green marker is 3 blocks from Courthouse. From there it's green line along Fairgrounds Road to the red Bullseye where the cop pulls off. Line from there SW is from cop SW to end of mesa. Mesa edge -presumably the steep hill- is marked in pink.

Around corner of Meas & just SW of UFO location, marks for my proposed tow car. From there a green line marks tow car path out of town to SW.

 

Under no circumstances are you to look at my map or go to Google Earth & look around!! If you do, we will know & we will pay you a visit.

 

 

Bingo bango bongo. You're welcome.

[Turtle]

OK, I missed your link, I'll take the world of the College Professor, you caught me, I didn't know there was someone who admitted it was a hoax.... It still seems a bit contrived as an explanation. if I was going to make such an elaborate hoax I would have done it someplace where more people would have seen it and the timing was so good I wonder how many times they had to practice it and the other sighting with very similar details, did they do that one as well?

 

The Expose says the students specifically wanted to make a fool of Zamora, who was once a student at their school, wasn't the brightest bulb, and was harssaing his fellow students in town once he became a cop.

 

But I have not begun to fight, there are lots more sightings that well represented with data.

 

http://www.ufoeviden...ses/case104.htm

 

 

 

BTW google earth locks up my computer, sorry I couldn't find the roads names for you... all I can do is looks up local maps and that takes forever...

 

I was posting my map markup when you were posting, so have a look.

 

I have no intention of debunking these one-by-one, kite-wise or other-wise. I have shown you how, so have at it. :xmas_sheep: :weather_storm: :bdaybiggrin: :umno:

[Aethelwulf]

Turtle reminds me of Klass

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_J._Klass

 

 

 

 

Often, being a notorious UFO skeptic, he often provided explanations which never fitted the bill of the observation. The way this happened was because he was well-known for not using [facts] in his arguments against the UFO phenomenon or intentionally ignoring certain aspects which would make his argument highly unlikely.

[Turtle]

Turtle reminds me of Klass

 

http://en.wikipedia....Philip_J._Klass

 

 

Often, being a notorious UFO skeptic, he often provided explanations which never fitted the bill of the observation. The way this happened was because he was well-known for not using [facts] in his arguments against the UFO phenomenon or intentionally ignoring certain aspects which would make his argument highly unlikely.

 

 

...

 

In a 1999 interview, fellow debunker Gary Posner wrote that despite some recent health problems, the 80-year-old "Klass's mind — and pen — remain razor sharp, to the delight of his grateful followers and to the constant vexation (or worse) of his legions of detractors. ...

 

[Moontanman]

Phillip J. Klass is a prime example of a debunk at all costs charlatan. He was the genius who suggested slow moving meteors as solutions to hovering UFOs and even suggested one was due to a fast comet. He is an emotional debunker, his world view cannot hold anything but what he thinks it should, I have no respect for him or his goofy pelicanism...

 

Good job turtle on the Zamarro case, I haven't revisited it in a long time, keep me on my toes...

[Moontanman]

The Expose says the students specifically wanted to make a fool of Zamora, who was once a student at their school, wasn't the brightest bulb, and was harssaing his fellow students in town once he became a cop.

 

 

 

I was posting my map markup when you were posting, so have a look.

 

I have no intention of debunking these one-by-one, kite-wise or other-wise. I have shown you how, so have at it. :xmas_sheep: :weather_storm: :bdaybiggrin: :umno:

 

 

Ever what floats your boat turtle, if you decline to participate it is your choice

[Moontanman]

Now that turtle is out of the game Aethelwolf we are free to push our UFO agenda... the world is ours for the taking

[Turtle]

Phillip J. Klass is a prime example of a debunk at all costs charlatan. He was the genius who suggested slow moving meteors as solutions to hovering UFOs and even suggested one was due to a fast comet. He is an emotional debunker, his world view cannot hold anything but what he thinks it should, I have no respect for him or his goofy pelicanism...

 

Good job turtle on the Zamarro case, I haven't revisited it in a long time, keep me on my toes...

 

Thanks. :) To be clear, both Klass & Hynek are still dead. :hal_skeleton: I do hope you read Klass' bio at Aethe's link before you dismiss his merit out of hand. That's the critical thinking kind of thing to do.

 

Now that turtle is out of the game Aethelwolf we are free to push our UFO agenda... the world is ours for the taking

 

But I..and they...so we...but I....:lol: If I see you getting too flat footed, I may step in to right you in consideration of love and affection. Nothing on Mondays though please; I do laundry on Mondays.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Turtle

[Aethelwulf]

Despite contrary belief with many skeptics involving the phenomenon, I am actually very interested in the facts of a case rather than the hearsay or simple testimony. Testimony is one thing, but it is all the little factoids which follow a case which adds the real McCoy of testimony. Like the little facts of the UFO case I started over the scientology headquarters which it seems, many have simply ignored.

 

The little things like the height of the object, being detected on radar. How radar didn't detect the object descending and yet I know fine well radar can pick up on an object 500 feet into the air assuming their are no obstacles ie. depends on the terrain. Surprised that I mention the objects are stationary and yet we are being made to believe that they where kites (in a sophisticated method of manipulation) found in sporting events. I noted that these guys are able to manipulate the kites from a relatively short distance, I have yet to see this on a much larger scale (if) that is even possible. The fact the objects simply disappeared off radar when there are no other witnesses testifying to seeing kite activity in the area.

 

These are the little details in events that I am interested in.

 

PS. Oh! And not to mention that flying kites in a restricted airspace is a criminal offense.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Aethelwulf

[Aethelwulf]

The event itself had odd overtones of the saucer seen over O'Hare.

 

More to the point there was 6 of these objects... we are not even dealing with the one! :)

[Turtle]

Despite contrary belief with many skeptics involving the phenomenon, I am actually very interested in the facts of a case rather than the hearsay or simple testimony. Testimony is one thing, but it is all the little factoids which follow a case which adds the real McCoy of testimony. Like the little facts of the UFO case I started over the scientology headquarters which it seems, many have simply ignored.

 

whining

The little things like the height of the object, being detected on radar. How radar didn't detect the object descending and yet I know fine well radar can pick up on an object 500 feet into the air assuming their are no obstacles ie. depends on the terrain. Surprised that I mention the objects are stationary and yet we are being made to believe that they where kites (in a sophisticated method of manipulation) found in sporting events. I noted that these guys are able to manipulate the kites from a relatively short distance, I have yet to see this on a much larger scale (if) that is even possible. The fact the objects simply disappeared off radar when there are no other witnesses testifying to seeing kite activity in the area.

 

These are the little details in events that I am interested in.

 

PS. Oh! And not to mention that flying kites in a restricted airspace is a criminal offense.

 

 

This thread is for the Zamora incident. Please put your whining in the appropriate thread.

[Moontanman]

Thanks. :) To be clear, both Klass & Hynek are still dead. :hal_skeleton: I do hope you read Klass' bio at Aethe's link before you dismiss his merit out of hand. That's the critical thinking kind of thing to do.

 

I am well aware of Klass and his professional debunking. Just the one assertion of a slow meteor is enough for me to dismiss him as a crank as you would anyone who asserted magic as the cause of mushrooms growing over night.

 

 

 

But I..and they...so we...but I....:lol: If I see you getting too flat footed, I may step in to right you in consideration of love and affection. Nothing on Mondays though please; I do laundry on Mondays.

 

Picking a sighting apart by assuming things that are almost if not more unlikely than the alien spaceship idea is silly, I would rather say I don't know than say something that makes no sense and using far fetched ideas to debunk something is as dishonest as making up details to make the sighting more believable...