Is our life precoded in our first cell

[anjalimago]

My 5yr old daughter asked me a question i could not answer. that is perhaps what led me to this site.

when we are born, at conception are we precoded in our firts cells? so does god make us all grown up completely and then fold this information and bundle it in a cell and then let us be ready to be born?

any answers?

i am miffed?

does this not bother on theology and science, at the same time?

[Queso]

so does god make us all grown up completely and then fold this information and bundle it in a cell and then let us be ready to be born?

 

well since we created god let's throw god out of this question.

great, now that god's gone...

 

some people believe everything is deterministic, which means one thing leads to another...and free will does not exist.

 

some people believe free will exists, even though there is no scientifical evidence it does.

 

some people believe things are deterministic to an extent, but we have free will when it comes to things like how many shirts we will buy.

 

some people believe there's a guy called god that watches down on this planet and answers our wishes (aka prayers!) how silly!

 

we are prisoners to our own DNA, some people also say.

dna is what makes us unique, it's embedded in that single cell that turns into us.

 

dna is not a product of god, it's a product of evolution.

billions of years of it.

we will grow up according do our dna.

 

decide for yourself what you think is right.

[Boerseun]

All our physical and instinctive traits are coded in our dna. A dna string is a wonderful recording device, with remarkable playback qualities - but every now and then the playback and copy functions get their wires crossed; hence cancer. A cancerous growth is just a normal cell that's got a failed copy of your dna.

But - dna being the wonderful thing that it is, it does have limitations. Thus we evolved brains, the seat of culture and extra-dna knowledge. So, we can augment the limited knowledge stored in our dna with brains, and we have even gone one step further - libraries. We can now communicate effortlessly over the ages. Call it a book, call it an online encyclopaedia, the concept is the same.

So - yes. We are the product of our dna to an extent. The dna sets the scene - what we do with it afterwards is up to us.

[Biochemist]

...when we are born, at conception are we precoded in our firts cells?

Certainly all of our physical characteristice are.

so does god make us all grown up completely and then fold this information and bundle it in a cell and then let us be ready to be born?

Environmental factors are a significant fraction of what most of us think of as "ourselves". We have experiences that affect our capacity to deal with the world (including education) and emotional experiences that instill values and spirituality. The boundary is vague, and this is the "nature versus Nurture" argument for any particular human characteristic.

...does this not bother on theology and science, at the same time?

Unlike Orb, some of us do not think that men created God. Some of us think that God created science, created man, and still shows up for His own purposes. So this certainly is a question with both theological and scientific elements.

 

If it were not for 5 year olds asking these things, I think parents would have a lot more confidence.

[infamous]

If it were not for 5 year olds asking these things, I think parents would have a lot more confidence.

 

Isn't it amazing the wisdom that comes from the mouths of babes. Sometimes I think the older we get, the more confused we become.

[Biochemist]

... I think the older we get, the more confused we become.

And the less we care about it.

[TeleMad]

anjalimago: ... at conception are we precoded in our firts cells?

 

Yes (except for those things that are influenced by environmental factors, but even then, you can be genetically predisposed to one outcome or another and the environment may just influence the outcome).

 

anjalimago: so does god make us all grown up completely and then fold this information and bundle it in a cell and then let us be ready to be born?

 

No, nature does.

 

Biology can explain your conception, embryological development, birth, maturation from a child to an adult, and your reproducing offspring, all without recourse to a hypothetical God.

[UncleAl]

Identical twins do not have identical fingerprints. No god, no predestination. A simple thing like your mom pregnant with you eating soy products, eating green potatoes, taking thalidomide, or using retinoic acid makes a mockery of predestination. Is a lump of iron ore destined to be a scalpel or the defective seatbelt clasp in a recalled GM minivan?

 

What musical prodigies have we lost because the instruments upon which they would be prodigious do not exist?

[infamous]

Identical twins do not have identical fingerprints. No god, no predestination. A simple thing like your mom pregnant with you eating soy products, eating green potatoes, taking thalidomide, or using retinoic acid makes a mockery of predestination. Is a lump of iron ore destined to be a scalpel or the defective seatbelt clasp in a recalled GM minivan?

What musical prodigies have we lost because the instruments upon which they would be prodigious do not exist?

 

I must admit UncleAl, that was a very profound thought.............I'll have to give you much credit for that last sentence.

[DAK]

<some people believe free will exists, even though there is no scientifical evidence it does.>

 

Scientific evidence for free will???? Got evidence AGAINST it? Pretty subjective at best to argue against... to argue for simply decide to do something, then change your mind.

 

DAK

[Fishteacher73]

NOt to turn this into another determinism/free-will debate, but is there any chemical reaction or physical event that does not follow specific rules and present a predictable outcome? At what point can reactions "decide" what the outcome should be? Your brain is a electro-chemical engine and should therefore follow basic non-negotiable natural laws.

[TeleMad]

UncleAl: A simple thing like your mom pregnant with you eating soy products ... makes a mockery of predestination.

 

What???

[Boerseun]

Do you think there's free will? If you do, then there is. If you don't, well, in your universe, at least, there isn't free will. But then - maybe you we're predestined to believe it, whatever it might be. If you we're pre-destined to believe that there is free will, you're a fool.

By the way, UncleAl - that was a very deep statement about the prodigies...

[DAK]

<Environmental factors are a significant fraction of what most of us think of as "ourselves".>

 

So does this "dirty little fact" get in the way of the 'entirely predetermined' school of thought?

 

TeleMad:

 

<Biology can explain your conception, embryological development, birth, maturation from a child to an adult, and your reproducing offspring, all without recourse to a hypothetical God.>

 

Not to be rude, but this is a bit weak as a 'no god proof' isn't it? Explaining certain mechanisms of action in nature is hardly such a proof... one could say your explaining the way god creates... It also occurs to me that the use of "hypothetical God" seems meant to be pejorative, but in fact aren't accepted explainations of the mechanisms of all you've mentioned above {"Biology can explain your conception, embryological development, birth, maturation from a child to an adult, and your reproducing offspring"} simply "hypothetical" constructs?? You certainly don't claim to be able to explain the absolute truth of ANY of these do ?

 

DAK

[Biochemist]

...So does this "dirty little fact" {environmental influences} get in the way of the 'entirely predetermined' school of thought?...

DAK- I am not an absolute determinist, so I suppose they can speak for themselves. But my statement was not intended to offer a position on that issue. I just offered that environmental factors (whether or not they are regarded as deterministic) are separable from genetic factors.

 

Speaking as a moderator, if you want to talk about determinism/free will, there are a number of threads where that has been discussed in detail. Feel free to look at those or launch a new thread on it if you like.

[UncleAl]

NOt to turn this into another determinism/free-will debate, but is there any chemical reaction or physical event that does not follow specific rules and present a predictable outcome?

1) Any chemically reactive system with positive feedback is inherently chaotic. You can predict familes of orbits around attractors but not specific destinations at given times. Belousov-Zhabotinsky reaction, the Oregonator, etc.

 

2) Quantum mechanics only contains probabilities. The roulette ball wll occasionally land in 00 and there is no way of predicting when, even though we can say with a good degree of assurance how often, on the average.

 

Nothing in the world has a set destination. You aim and hope there is no in-flight fluctuation. On the average, you get what you expect. Every now and again a butterfly farts and little things add rather than average,

 

http://www.local1259iaff.org/report.htm

http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/TT/lyt1.html

http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/metropolitan/txcity/main.html

 

A simple thing like your mom pregnant with you eating soy products ... makes a mockery of predestination.

Soy products contain isoflavone phytoestrogens - genestein daidzein - and coumesterol that substantially emasculate males from womb through puberty. They will end up with short stature, scant musculature, and small genitalia. Asian immigrants to Canada who adopt local diet without the soy and rich with animal protein input routinely have tall 180-pound hockey-playing sons who wow the girls. When traditional diet is maintained, so are traditional results. West coast Canadian condom dispensors have a special slot for "slimmer" rubbers.

 

Hamburger Helper is girly-man food. OTOH, a soy-rich diet ameliorates menopausal symptoms. There's that much estrogenic stuff in it.

[Queso]

whoa.