How Long Until We Could Make A Real Sword Art Online (sao) Nerve Gear Type Device

[Kilravok]

That statement was added because I felt that my post sounded a bit berating, which I wanted to avoid....also, if one is not able to make the occassional light mockery of oneself, what's the point of ambition and morals?  I'd like to think of myself as a funny gal and have no problem laughin 'bout myself.  Life's more fun that way.

[DHendry1988]

Well, I say open up. Be who you are. If you cant be you, who are you? And say what you want. No point in freedom of speech if you cant say what you want.

 

So, boom! :) go wild. I wont get insulted or brought down. Berate me ;) I enjoy the challenge :p

[Kilravok]

I am kinda the same, I love the challenge.  We might have a lot of fun in the future.  Although, I am a bit more aggressive than you, I take pleasure in knocking down those who try to knock me.  I am blacklisted by the Jehovan Witnesses, their preacher squads no longer come to my door. ;)

Edited January 28, 2015 by Kilravok

[zazz54]

I am kinda the same, I love the challenge.  We might have a lot of fun in the future.  Although, I am a bit more aggressive than you, I take pleasure in knocking down those who try to knock me.  I am blacklisted by the Jehovan Witnesses, their preacher squads no longer come to my door. ;)

My kinda friend! They stopped coming round to my place years ago; I'd debate with them on every subject they brought up.

[DHendry1988]

Hehe :) I think they stopped coming over because they dragged me out the shower to talk about the apocalypse and accepting God and Christ and the prophecies at which my towel dropped and I said "I only believe in one prophecy. The prophecy of the one that will rescue us from the matrix" but enough about my religious affairs with Keanu Reeves. Let's not get too side tracked :p

[DHendry1988]

By the way, just doing some research into this so I'm not certain how much of this is true, but wouldnt we be able to use the sympathetic and/or parasympathetic nervous systems to control what parts of the body we need?

 

Just a speculative thought while I do some 3rd party investigation :)

[DHendry1988]

Hey guys. I know this forum is a bit of a mess of disorganization, but if there's one thing Toby Macguire's Spiderman has taught us, it's that all brilliant men and geniuses are messy :p hehe. So it just goes to show how smart we all are :D

 

Anyways, I have had a brainstorm that may help, methinks, cover a few points or even may provide a step to take to go forwards :)

 

Bear with me, because this could get confusing.

 

The brain registers everything it experiences. it reacts to and adopts the responses it receives from the rest of the body. Because of this, it will have different readings to to show the brain's state before, during and after the experience.

This would be, primarily, how an MRI system to scan our brains would work. It keeps a monitor in real time of our brains' changes during a testing phase prior to gameplay.

With real time responses, we can identify the minimum, maximum, and logically acceptable boundaries by which the brain can accept.

 

Now, the biggest issue would be to write to the brain, which I personally believe should be reserved to the ears and eyes. What you see and hear can change how you view things, and simply the mental state of being within a video game could make you react naturally.

This is where testing would come into play. We could implement basic and advanced testing.

 

Basic would have the following tests

Follow the cursor, voice recognition, pain receipt, audio pitch testing, etc. The basics needed to make your brain react in certain ways.

Advanced would need to combine these elements. Hand-Eye coordination, Audio Source Detection, Muscle Reflex, contraction and expansion.

 

With these tests the system could accurately hazard a guess at the tolerance limit for maximum and minimum receipt for hearing, seeing and feeling. The vocal recognition would be simply used to accept confirmation from the user during testing.

 

So basically, with these tests the computer can sync the entire brain together and produce a virtual recreation that can imitate how you would respond. If you see a sword flying towards you, you'll panic. If you hear a gun being fired you'll react by heading to cover.

 

This may not cover 100% of the investigative spectrum but I really do believe that a brain to computer interface would be best approached by mimicking the brain rather than utilizing it fully.

This would also contribute to memory because what you see and hear can reflect in your mind :)

 

Hopefully this is accurate and not just bordering insanity (not been the best morning for me today). If so, can anyone else build on this? If not, can anyone advise why not?

[Eclogite]

More than one of you has stated that initially you can ignore the sense of smell. That could be a mistake.

 

Smell is processed in the most primitve part of our brain and consequenlty smells can have a huge emotional impact on us. A key to making an experience feel real is to have it generate emotions. Smells are arguably the most potent way of doing that.

[DHendry1988]

Hi eclogite. As inarguable as your statement is (I hope that's the right word), I cant help but state that this isnt the height of our concerns. Being able to smell does impact us, but trying to provide digital smells so as to compensate for these smells would be extremely taxing and difficult. Although a full immersive experience would be brilliant, smell could only but make things more unstable at this point in time.

 

although I would like to have this as a part of the programming, but just not as important as it could be made out to be.

 

... I've probably just gone around in circles and bitten my own tail haven't I? :p

[Eclogite]

I'm not sure that at this point you can state with certainty that it would be dificult to do this. With the current level of understanding of the technology involved I think any intitively derived opinions are just that - opinions. I wouldn't rule it out until you have the problems defined much better.

[DHendry1988]

Okay, I never ruled it out. I said it was gonna be taxing and difficult. Every smell will no doubt affect the brain one way or another, but there are so many smells out there that affect us that it would be really hard to simulate. For example, smokers to non-smokers. Some non-smokers despise the smell of smoke while smokers dont. You'd have to simulate that smell perfectly for me to hate it and a smoker to like it.

Bananas, coconut, cinnamon, vanilla, smoke, acid, mint, wood, stones, salt, damp, etc. Unique smells that affect people differently. I am not ruling it out, I'm simply saying there are FAR too many variables to play with to make this a justifiably important aspect of development at this time

[Kilravok]

The initial priority is, clearly, vision and sound.  Those are the absolute minimum required to create any kind of level of VR.  The technology for that exists in headphones and Occular Rif/Morpheus.  To make it immersive, we need to add tactile and temperature, pain is at this stage not required.  To make it feel real, we need to add motor-cortex controls, or similar controls based on actual motoric functions, that includes force feedback or simulation thereof, althought force feedback can come later.  For Full Dive VR, we need to add the rest of the senses as well as, at this stage, pain and force feedback (if not already included).  Once those are all set up, further development would be focussed on increasing security and improving speed and resolution.  Once we have a working and marketable product, we can develop different models for different specialised applications, such as a medical NG that can fully supress pain without the need of anethetics; prostetic NG for the control of fully tactile and actuated replacement limbs; or industrial NG to control specially made humanoid drones for work in hazardous environment (mineral mines, deep sea, forest or oil field fires, etc...).

 

Lastly, there is the option to have an NG model that is not for Full Dive Virtual Reality but rather for Augmented Reality.  Considering the evolution of technology, I think aiming for the Augmented Reality would be best to set as the first stepping stone, since that only requires eye movement tracking, head movement tracking, location, visuals and audio.  I am confident, with present technology, we could already create a, immersive AR system.

[RedicicleV2]

The initial priority is, clearly, vision and sound.  Those are the absolute minimum required to create any kind of level of VR.  The technology for that exists in headphones and Occular Rif/Morpheus.  To make it immersive, we need to add tactile and temperature, pain is at this stage not required.  To make it feel real, we need to add motor-cortex controls, or similar controls based on actual motoric functions, that includes force feedback or simulation thereof, althought force feedback can come later.  For Full Dive VR, we need to add the rest of the senses as well as, at this stage, pain and force feedback (if not already included).  Once those are all set up, further development would be focussed on increasing security and improving speed and resolution.  Once we have a working and marketable product, we can develop different models for different specialised applications, such as a medical NG that can fully supress pain without the need of anethetics; prostetic NG for the control of fully tactile and actuated replacement limbs; or industrial NG to control specially made humanoid drones for work in hazardous environment (mineral mines, deep sea, forest or oil field fires, etc...).

 

Lastly, there is the option to have an NG model that is not for Full Dive Virtual Reality but rather for Augmented Reality.  Considering the evolution of technology, I think aiming for the Augmented Reality would be best to set as the first stepping stone, since that only requires eye movement tracking, head movement tracking, location, visuals and audio.  I am confident, with present technology, we could already create a, immersive AR system.

For Augment reality I don't really think that people will use it for things like (The Parliament of London) might reject it so for every thing else yes but for Augment reasons i doubt they will use it. 

Edited January 31, 2015 by RedicicleV2

[CraigD]

Basics, the brain is our biggest concern, and although nano probes could help, we dont really know how much damage it could cause, nor if it would be permanent. The holes may be tiny but it may not guarantee that cerebral fluid wont leak in :(

The sort of nano-scale machine I’m imagining in this post has long, thin "tentacles" about 10 nm (0.00000001 m) wide. The narrowest part of the brain cells (the axons of neurons) it would be probing is about 1 um (0.00001 m), 100 times as wide, and separated by at least 4 times their width. So the nanomachine wouldn’t cause any damage. Compare this a typical fine-needle biopsy needle, which is 50000 times wider, and would severs about 10 axons.

 

Likewise, a 10 nm tentacle would be so small it wouldn’t leave a wound in the meninges (the barrier membrane that keeps the cerebrospinal fluid in) or blood vessels in the brain, because the gap between the cells of these barriers (endothelial cells) are about this size. Such small tentacles would slip between even theses tightly-packed cells, rather than destroying the cells.

 

It’s important to keep in mind that the machine I’m describing is almost pure speculation at this time – nobody’s yet built anything like it. The key difference between it and the more well-popularized “nanobots” that were such a hot topic of speculation 20 years ago (and of well-funded research, which continues to this day) is that I propose a machine that is small only in cross-section, but long in length. This, I think, is key to overcoming the many problems that have so far prevented the making of true “free swimming” nanobots, and in the opinion of many experts, likely makes them impossible.

 

(sources: http://physrev.physiology.org/content/91/2/555, http://www.nanomedicine.com/NMI/8.2.1.2.htm)

[Nisshoku]

After giving this some thought, I have come up with a theory on how this is possible maybe even faster than we can expect. Before one starts development on any prototype of a NerveGear like rig, they first need to do all the research on how to make an SAO fantasy, reality. In the game, when they log in, they can't move their bodies in the real world. I theorize that they are essentially Lucid Dreaming which is making them feel like they are in the game. For anyone who doesn't know, lucid dreaming is basically where one is consciously aware that they are dreaming. As of today, it is possible to induce lucid dreaming. So the first obstacle in making the rig, is finding a way to let it send signals to the brain, which would allow the person dreaming to be aware of it.

 

The next obstacle is getting the actual dream/game to operate. All that needs to be done, is like in SAO, have the gaming rig pick up brain signals from a person, and transport them into the rig. From there, the rig executes all the commands, and then sends it back into the player's brain, updating they're dream/game and making the player feel like they just say executed an attack. Since computer programming is pretty easy, programming the rig to execute a command from a players brain signal shouldn't be too much of a hassle. Once we have a way to send brain signal from the brain, to a gaming rig, and then back to the brain, and once we have a way to induce lucid dreaming for long periods of time, this could easily be accomplished. 

 

You would also need a log out command option that will tell the rig that the player is done, and then sends a signal back to the brain to un-induce the lucid dreaming. Also. a smart idea would be a fail safe log out. I would suggest that once a player "logs in" and they're game sequence starts, a 12 hour countdown timer starts as well.. And once it hits 0, the player is forced to log out. This would ensure that people don't go overboard with the game which could become very unhealthy, if not fatal. 

 

I keep thinking about what I have just said over and over, and the more I think about it, the more I really do feel that it is within reach and certainly possible. Especially with the technology these days. Look how far we've come since the Cold War began. If things progress at their current rate, we could advance the same amount within less time than the period between the Cold War and the present day. Anyway that's my two cents on the matter. Again I am just theorizing this, and possibly some of it is not or will not ever be possible. But, i hope i also have given whoever builds a VR Gaming rig a lot of insight and great ideas that could be essential for completing this project.

 

Here is the website where I got my info on the Lucid Dreaming: http://www.infiniteminds.info/Lucid-Dreaming/The-COBRAS-Method-How-to-directly-induce-lucid-dreams.html

Also, try taking the small experiment they have on the website and try to induce your own Lucid Dreaming. :D

Edited February 1, 2015 by Nisshoku

[zazz54]

Not sure if this helps, but since it is on the subject, see this: http://www.ted.com/talks/miguel_nicolelis_brain_to_brain_communication_has_arrived_how_we_did_it?utm_source=newsletter_weekly_2015-01-31&utm_campaign=newsletter_weekly&utm_medium=email&utm_content=talk_of_the_week_button

[Five2Fly]

It's was probably not the best idea to no keep up on this for a few weeks. But from what I'm reading in craigD's post earlier, are you talking about having wires that in a sense "plug in" to the CNS and PNS?