How Long Until We Could Make A Real Sword Art Online (sao) Nerve Gear Type Device

[violetbird27]

Hey guys...why dont we just make a pod? So it can have both the muscle feedback and the headphones, and the headset for the visuals...Wouldnt that make the job easier instead of trying to recreate the brain why dont we use simpler means to get the desired result?

[violetbird27]

I created a topic to discuss this

[Nisshoku]

Hey guys...why dont we just make a pod? So it can have both the muscle feedback and the headphones, and the headset for the visuals...Wouldnt that make the job easier instead of trying to recreate the brain why dont we use simpler means to get the desired result?

True a pod would be easier, but you're looking at a much much higher cost to manufacture a pod as opposed to a helmet like console similar to SAO. Cheaper manufacturing cost means the console will be more affordable. And you won't have to worry about space for a big pod in your house. The Helmet idea had much neater storage. Imo

[DHendry1988]

Nishhoku and violetbird27

 

Nice to meet you, but as a mobile phone user, i'm aware that it can take a while to post but you just need to hit the Post or Reply button once :)

Pressing it more will post more times

 

Also, it's not just the cost that makes this pod a bad idea to follow along with, but the fact that we've got a clear object in mind. We're recreating the design and concept of Sword Art online's nervegear. To create a pod to do it would be against the idea that started this.

 

But if you want to try it yourself, the logic may be more viable than the nervegear's.

[blariviere]

When I started reading this topic I kept getting the nagging feeling that there was some angle or possibility we have been missing and when it came to me I felt silly, while the nano-fibre interface seems to be the most plausible Idea we may need to go into a more internal solution.

 

Although it would take much longer to prepare and develop this technology to the level needed Nano-bot colonies would solve many of the problems each possibility fails to overcome, with colonies situated around the key nerve clusters in control of each limb, the ears, mouth, eyes, and vocal cords that would both intercept and transit the impulses to each we cut out much of the difficulty in interception of brain to body signals.

 

Alongside this the nano-bot colonies would also serve as internal scanners allowing a real-time 3D model of the brain from the inside out greatly easing the burden on the VR helmet itself.

 

As well these colonies would also allow such involuntary actions as breathing, blushing, and heartbeats to be duplicated and emulated in the game in parallel with the same functions in the physical body.

 

Rather than trying to 'Move' the mind into the game would it not be easier to take the VR information and rout it From the game To the brain in a similar manner to a video game controller with the brain impulses translating into data transmitted to the game and then the resulting action is transmitted back to the brain for the next reaction and action?

 

I also wonder about the feasibility of powering either the nano-fibres or nano-colonies using bio-electricity?

 

 

 

This is mostly brainstorming so any comments on if this is even possible would be nice.

[zazz54]

Though I'm not yet able to contribute much in the way of engineering or other technology for this project; from all I have read so far, in various periodicals and academic papers, and right here in this forum; nano-technology seems the most promising, not only for this project but many others, as is already being attested in the medical field -- to date.

 

I think you are hitting it on the nose, "blariviere," regarding the nano-colonies, and that simply is from an ole newspaperman with honed instincts. I think most of those contributing so far are on the right path. If the steps taken in this project continue to be taken carefully and as considered, as what I have observed, I have no doubt success will be achieved.  

[GrimThunder]

Hey Guys! I am GrimThunder, commonly known as Grim and I have been into gaming, alternate realities, and many other Fantasies all of us nerds appreciate. I have just recently watched the series "Sword Art Online" and grew passionate about the potentials of this becoming reality. Before I say what I know about this technology and ask my questions, I'll let you know that if any of you are interested in joining a group of people to discuss and debate the wonder of Virtual Realities then feel free to add me on Skype. My name is grimthunder22 and I'd be willing to talk most most any time or at least add you to a group chat about these things.

 

  Now, I'm sure most of you guys are college students and have a pretty deep understanding of the nervous system and theories to make Virtual Reality gaming possible, however for those of you that don't I'll explain what I know which is pretty much the basics.

 

 The first thing you should know is that there are two main parts to the Human Nervous System:

~

Central Nervous System (CNS)- Consists of the brain and spinal cord, is the "Command Center".

~

Peripheral Nervous System (PNS)- Consists mainly of nerves that connect the (CNS) to the entire body. "Electrical Wires"

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nervous_system)

 

Now, obviously you would want some sort of system in between your CNS and your PNS so as to allow your brain to process the data being received from your avatar while intercepting the signal from the CNS to the PNS and instead sending it to your avatar. Obviously, we haven't discovered how to do that yet, which is why we are studying, right?

 

On top of having the system intercept and redirect signals you would want it to have some sort of security system, so that your don't get your brain hacked or get a virus. You would also want certain normal bodily functions to be taken out, for example: sexual signals (for parental control), pain or a pain reducer, and any other things you guys can think of. 

 

Some problems one might come across is the bodies required functions that are typically automatic, such as breathing. If your processor is intercepting those needed functions then how will air get to your lungs? If you go underwater in the game and hold your breath will you hold your breath in real life? If you were to allow these signals through to your lungs couldn't someone turn that off by hacking into the system? Then again, maybe you wouldn't want breathing to be needed in the game and you would breathe just to feel normal. 

 

There are many other questions that need to be answered and bridges to be built, like I said before feel free to Skype me and join what will hopefully be a growing group.

                                               Thanks For Your Time,

                                                                                        ~Grim 

Edited February 14, 2015 by GrimThunder

[MarkosZelaya]

YESSS!!! Why don't we start researching as a team now? Why wait until college? I want to live the SAO life ASAP! Message me @ [email protected] 

[SidewinderTV]

SO, I'm only going to summorize and try to give a clear view of what we have so far, + put down some rules and demands for what it needs to be. This might end up a little cluttered so bear with me:

 

First of all: what would be needed - in the lost basic terms - to create full FIVE virtual reality?

 

The answer may be simpler than you'd think; all we need to do is create a way of inputing all 5 senses into the brain, and catch up the outputs from the brain (+ preventing them from moving one's physical body)

 

Really, the system does not need to interfere with anything else, as all the emotions and similar things created would come naturally if the brain thinks you're being IE kissed, it will create an emotional reaction to that itself! I'll get to the other reason for building a system like this in the demands section. We wouldn't even need to create an in-game breathing system as described by someone earlier, we'd simply not touch the breathing in/outputs and the physical body would breath as the in-game body did so. Really, some of these problems are solves by the human body itself. In example, one of the senses (hearing) can be solves with tech we have today - surround headphones! This can also kindof solves the visual sense, although I personally will refuse to stop until we can send inputs (this will also most likely be the hardest sense to recreate) directly to the visual nerve.

 

Now to the demands: our "nerve-gear" must;

 

1: ONLY affect our senses and motions, thus allowing our actual brain to create emotional responses to in-game events. This is not only more practical and making more sense - it also prevents any kind of mind control as seen in SAO alfheim-episodes. To prevent this system from being hacked and worked around the NerveGear must also be PHYSICALLY incapable of accessing anything exept nerves and emotional inputs.

 

2. (If it uses radiation) be uncapable of using the power required to "fry" a human brain

 

3. Be removable without the player logging out first, IE if your mom has to wake you from the game, directly removing it from the head without damaging the brain must be possible.

 

Has anyone thought of anything else you might want to add to this list?

 

Yah, the *** was suppose to say "add" but my phone replaced it with a.ss...

[Five2Fly]

From what I've noticed, a lot of people believe that lucid dreaming would be a decent approach to follow as the body is in a temporary state of paralysis! But from what I understand about sleep, (and feel free to correct me) what it looks like is that...

 

1: REM sleep or ordinary sleep would have to be brought into this, and the problem with that is if you only get ordinary sleep, you will go insane (not an exaggeration, an actual observed fact! You will lose your mind.) and with only REM sleep (which to my knowledge is the state that allows you to have dreams, however out of the ordinary they could be) you would be a very cranky and grumpy person.

 

2: When dreaming in general, the body is paralyzed, excluding those who suffer from sleep disorders, and doesn't send motor signals to the body telling the muscles to contract, or extend, or move to any extent! So how would you collect signals or intercept them if the body isn't recieving them at all!

 

And shutting off pain receptors to not register, isn't that tied in to the PNS? Which would be something to put in this device to tell it to ignore or accept those receptors considering its those receptors that seem to work hand-and-hand with touch sensory!

 

Correct whatever is wrong! But I don't want to head down any dead roads if we move past the collaboration stage!

[Five2Fly]

The sort of nano-scale machine I’m imagining in this post has long, thin "tentacles" about 10 nm (0.00000001 m) wide. The narrowest part of the brain cells (the axons of neurons) it would be probing is about 1 um (0.00001 m), 100 times as wide, and separated by at least 4 times their width. So the nanomachine wouldn’t cause any damage. Compare this a typical fine-needle biopsy needle, which is 50000 times wider, and would severs about 10 axons.

 

Likewise, a 10 nm tentacle would be so small it wouldn’t leave a wound in the meninges (the barrier membrane that keeps the cerebrospinal fluid in) or blood vessels in the brain, because the gap between the cells of these barriers (endothelial cells) are about this size. Such small tentacles would slip between even theses tightly-packed cells, rather than destroying the cells.

 

It’s important to keep in mind that the machine I’m describing is almost pure speculation at this time – nobody’s yet built anything like it. The key difference between it and the more well-popularized “nanobots” that were such a hot topic of speculation 20 years ago (and of well-funded research, which continues to this day) is that I propose a machine that is small only in cross-section, but long in length. This, I think, is key to overcoming the many problems that have so far prevented the making of true “free swimming” nanobots, and in the opinion of many experts, likely makes them impossible.

 

(sources: http://physrev.physiology.org/content/91/2/555, http://www.nanomedicine.com/NMI/8.2.1.2.htm)

CraigD if you get a chance check your messages that Shodan and I sent you. I think they could be helpful in finding your information on these tentacles at nanoscopic levels!

[BlackDiamond]

:rainbow:  Hey everyone!  :rainbow:

Just like a lot of people here, I created an account for this topic.

I read all posts and wanted to help with this project. I'm 17 years old and i study Latin-Maths.

I don't have much knowledge about neuroscience, nanotechnology or that kind of stuff, but I still want to help where I can.

SAO really made me think about the possibilities of FDVR, and that's how I found this. I spend some time thinking about this (instead of working for school, hehe) and this is what I got now.

 

@Five2Fly:

I don't really think that FDVR can be compared to lucid dreaming.

Because the writing part of the BCI will directly write on the nerves, everything will look real.

With real, I really mean real. It's not because it's inside our heads and not in the world around us it looks like dreaming.

In fact, everything we see around us is just an illusion. We see it inside our heads. (Therefore, saying VR is an illusion isn't really true, it's a different world made by programming and algorithems, instead of atoms and nature laws.)

Intercepting the real brain signals coming from the eyes and replacing them by the "fake" signals will make us think we see a completely different world. It will still look like a normal world, though, because we trick our minds by faking the stimuli.

I think when someone uses the NG, the person will think he is awake (and he will be awake), because we won't touch the consciousness, or mind, or whatever you call it.

 

The only things that will be "touched" are (what I know from reading this topic):

 

1) The stimuli. The reason why we can interact with everything around us, why we know what is around us, is because of the five senses.

(Actually there are six senses including the electromagnetic sense some animals have, not important since humans don't have this :p)

Changing the impulses coming from the sensory organs will be the writing part.

2) The response, this will be both movement and speech (nobody didn't talk about speech yet, though an important part of a VRMMO).

The response is our way of responding to stimuli. An important thing is to inhibit these imulses to prevent them from happening with the real body.

I'm not sure how this will be done (this has been discussed alot) and whether or not the way of inhibiting will be the same as the interception of the impulses from the senses 

(I didn't think this through yet, but my guess is "no" since they are completely different things). The responses will be the reading part.

 

 

Just a small, easy scheme to make it clear what the main idea is:

 

Stimuli -> Sensory Organs -> Senory Nerves -> Brain -> Motor Nerves -> Response

 

The "Stimuli" is what the NG will write (the most important parts are the world (sight) and some kind of code to feel stuff (hapt), later we can add other senses).

"Sensory organs" will be bypassed. To go from "Stimuli" to "Sensory Nerves" we will probably use nanotechnology from what i read.

The "Brain" won't be touched. Since the players won't be sleeping, the mind will work normally.

Unlike some people might think, you don't need to "transfer" your thoughts to the game. Just like when you're playing a game on the computer, your thinking works as normal.

When you are in the game, you will response by using the "Motor Nerves". Now it's important to transfer the impulses from the motor nerves to the game, and inhibit them so no actual "Response" will happen in real.

For the player in the game, everything will look normal. After seeing a monster, he wants to response by swinging his sword, and that will happen.

 

 

I read that nanotechnology is the main and best idea to make this work, but can someone explain what excactly you mean by that?

Will there be constant nanobots or tentacle stuff inside the body? And where will they be? I don't really get that part yet.

 

Thanks for reading this, and I'm sorry if it's too long, I'm just trying to share my thoughts.

Tell me if you don't agree with something or have another view on something, everyone makes mistakes. 

[Boogames32]

Moderation note: This is the original post that lead to the creation of the FullDive Technology” subforum. Posts have been moved from it into other threads, according to subject, to make them shorter and more readable.This thread is for discussion of how to make an actual brain-computer interface like the NerveGear shown in the Sword Art Online animeIf you have seen the hit anime Sword Art Online (or S.A.O for short) you most likely know what the nerve gear is and what it does. Going into this though i will explain what it exactly does as if no one has ever heard of it. The Nerve Gear is a VR device (or virtual reality device). I have posted pictures as to what it looks like nerve gear.jpg sao nerve gear.jpg . Through the device every sense is being used. When you are in the game you smell the things around you, you can taste everything you eat. You can see and hear everything around you in a photo realalistic enviroment. You can feel everything as if it were in the real world right in front of you. (Please note the sensation of touch and feel is not to the of the real world though.) When i say you can feel things i mean each type of feeling, mechanical reception the feeling of contact, thermo reception the feeling of hot and cold, stretch reception the feeling of muscle compression, kinestesia the sensing of body movements, proprioception the sensation of a body's place, and equilibriaception the sensation of balance. So i will break down what we have and what we will most likely have in the near future if everthing goes right that has to do with these five senses. Photorealistic graphics are expected to be around by the year 2020 as predicted by the scientist Michio Kaku. (thats two years before S.A.O is even released in the anime). Headphones are already great and will only get better with time. With taste and smell finding the answer will exponentially help the as the two senses are so closely related. touch is the big one here, there are many devices to simulate each type of touch i described but it would need to be all in one and need to all fit with in the helmet used as it is the only peice of equipment used in the show (though it is connected to a strong pc). the device would only need to touch your head and still give you feeling anywhere on your body. As for the controls they are completly controlled through the brain. You have the full range of movement that you have in the real world in the game, (without ever actually moving in real life). I would imagine this would be done through an EEG (electroencephalogram) that could take the brain's electrical signals used to move and redirect them into a computer that would us them as movement commands. By the way none of this is invasive so nothing has to connect into your body. So give your ideas to how far along we are to doing this and new tech that would make this possible. i personaly plan on going to college to create such a device so please lets start a discussion about this. i believe this is all possible because if humans put there mind to it anything can be created. An example of this is the atom bomb, everyone thought it was impossible to split an atom but we did it and now we have nuclear generators and reactors.

wow, I have watched the whole

Series of SAO, the whole thing of nerve gear really sparked a creative thous of the whole thing, to think some time in the distant future

We may attain the technology to create such a device now I am a great gamer and if this man can create this technology well count me

In as a beta tester because I would want to be one of the first humans

In the planet to be able to be inside a video games, I kinda wish I was in kirito's position so I could fight for my life. I would really love to

Be him in such a beautiful world, so I may also persue this research, and be the person who helped design the infamous never gear, I am 15 years old and I live in Canada, I am quite a smart 15 year old, so far my grades don't show it,but I find myself being smarter than anyone else in my school even though my grades are pretty low I can get them up just as fast as I got them low, & I would like to pursue this research and help you in your quest to make this a virtual reality so I may go to college and I'm a research neuroscience and all that kind of stuff but I need to pursue your dream and make it my reality thanks for the great idea and thanks for the information I hope that one day we get to meet each other, alright talk to you later bye

Edited March 1, 2015 by Boogames32

[Boogames32]

I think we should get everyone in this discussion together either online or in real life to speak about what we can do in the research of this project, and if we can get everyone together maybe we can figure out how we're going to go about this subject, I think this would be a really good idea to start researching and we should get people who are still in school so that we can put them onto the track but we need them to do to contribute to this project i.I on the other hand it is 15 years old and I would love to work in favor of this project because I love video games and I would do anything for them and in the production of them I would also do anything for them. So yeah I think we should get everyone together somehow and figure out what we're going to do to contribute to this project

[Brvndo1]

Hello, I am one of the first commenters on this page and I'm just now coming back to this page. All I can say is wow. I never thought this would be an ongoing discussion and I went to follow another page. I have been doing some research about nerve gear and SAO and I have found this page and another working on it. I find this page to be focusing mainly on Nerve gear and what is needed for NG to be accomplished. I'm proposing that we should combine these 2 pages Becuase the other focuses on mainly SAO.

The pages' link is http://argus.forum-invision.com/forum (yes, I know this page has been posted several times in this forum but I want to combine the Two)

[Mactyville]

Okay, I'm back.. hehe just visit this forum again..

I just want to say to those who really are enthusiastic and like to dedicate some of their time in the development, I'd want you to all know that we are making progress..You could check it out here http://nervegearsquad.clanwebsite.com/ ..

We also have skype conference every week. to discuss everything from delopment issues to research issues and anything with regards to the project. :)

Edited March 2, 2015 by Mactyville

[KiritoBeater]

 

 

 

Step 1: develop technology to partially override the brain's sensory signals
Step 2: make this technology socially acceptable for commercial use
Step 3: incorporate into games, and make damn well sure it's free of brain damaging bu

Step 4: wear headphones hooked up to mmorpg

Step 5: fall asleep/somehow forcibly get into a lucid nightmare
Step 6: have the program tell you that you're in the game
Step 7: have the program tell you through headphones what's happening