C1ay Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 So where are the particles emanating from? If I throw a ball into the air then what is the supposed source of these particles that push it back to the ground?zzzzzzzzzzzz........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonchild Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 The tree and the boy example was something I used to show a misunderstanding in "Physics". People believed the sun rotated around the earth for many years. SOME PEOPLE still believe it. The point I was trying to make was something pushed the boy. It was something you couldn't see. It was the wind. I can visualize gravity working very similar to this example. The idea is new as far as I know. I dont know a single person (regardless of the personal dogma they subscribe to) that believes that the sun revolves about the earth...perhaps I dont know as diverse a group as you... ... 5. What causes atoms to have Mass. ... What do you think of the proposal of the Higgs field and its effects towards giving particles their mass and corosponding charge? "How Particles Accquire Mass" Particle Mass, The Higgs Field and the Higgs Boson Fermilab's Page on the Higgs Field jCc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Does this answer your "how" question. No. I don't understand a single word of what you write. Sorry. You fail to a) explain where these particles come from and :cup: explain how they produce the effect of pushing me down towards the Earth. your wind example only clouds the issue. Occham's razor is well applied in this case. Which theory has the least need for strange workarounds: 1) Gravity is a force that acts between objects and creates attraction, or 2) Gravity is the result of endless streams of unknown particles emanating mysteriously from the exact opposite direction of the measured gravitational field (no matter where you are in the universe?)? Theory #2 needs a huge amout of backup in order to be believed, since first of all it is counter-intuitive, it has never been observed in nature, and it does not explain what gravity is or how it works. I have't found any work that explains "How" gravity pulls. Einstien's warped space doesn't work for me. A contradiction, then. You know of works that explain how gravitational pull arises. Warped space time is Einstein's explanation. The bending of light beams is a simple, observable proof of his theory. Your theory needs to explain this: How is light bent around massive objects if there is no curved space, or if there is no gravitational pull? (The two are the same for all practical purposes). I have a lot of ideas that I have worked on since I published my book. I would like to post them on your forum. You are welcome to post anything as long as you follow our site rules, which means we are free to discuss your ideas and you have to back up your claims with proof. You are selling anti-gravity books. Huh? I did not think I was violating any of your rules. You were. Just read the rules and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannel Roberts Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Tormod The anti-gravity books I was refering to were posted on this website. That was off the subject. How does gravity "Bend" Light was another question that was asked. That was off the subject. I am going to post something on what causes red shift. It will give my theory of how light is bent by gravity on that post. You seem to have trouble with how you are pushed by gravity. It may be the way I am explaining it. Let me try a different example. Let's say there is a river of water. We could use the Mississippi river as an example. You walk out in the river. What happens? You are pushed down the stream with the current. All the molecules of water behind you push you. The Miissippi river starts in Minnesota and goes all the way to the gulf of Mexico. Anywhere that you cross the river will cause you to be pushed. There are thousands of rivers that run into the ocean. All those rivers will cause you to be pushed if you cross them. So, think of it this way, there are (theoretical) gravity streams that start somewhere out past pluto. All the streams flow toward the earth. The gravity streams are like the rivers and the earth is like the ocean. Gravity particles follow gravity particles just like a flow of water. Gravity is much thinner than water. Anything that comes in contact with a gravity stream will be pushed in the direction of the flow. Just try and visualize this. Stand straight up. Think of a flow of gravity coming from above you. Jump in the air. Are you pulled down or pushed down? When you jump you are basically jumping up stream. Where do the gravity particles come from? They are just part of all the "energy" that is conserved throughout the universe. Particles change from one energy state to another. When a light particle hits your eye what happens to it? Does the light dissappear or become another state of energy? Gravity is just another state. This changing of energy from one state to another is the main point of my book. It is a much bigger topic. So, to keep it simple for right now I will say that the gravity particles come out of the "Dark Energies". If gravity pushes, it does not change any of the math. If I push a wagon with 10 pounds of force it will have the same effect as if I pull the wagon with 10 pounds of force. Keep asking the questions and I will try and answer them. I am going to try and stay inside the subject of the thread. There are 2 points gravity is a particle and it pushes. I think I should of asked a question Could gravity be a particle and could it push? Stating what one believes to be fact can offend others. I may have went about this a little wrong in the way I presented this thread. I appologize. I am learning as I go and I will try and do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 So, think of it this way, there are (theoretical) gravity streams that start somewhere out past pluto.lefthttp://hypography.com/forums/images/smilies/umno.gif[/img] Where do they specifically emanate from? How does this ficticious stream flow against all sides of all celestial bodies at the same time? Why does it push harder on Earth than it does against the same body on moon? Why does it push 250 times harder on Jupiter than it does the Earth? Shouldn't it always push on the same physical size of body regardless of whether or not that body is on Earth, the moon, Jupiter or even the sun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonchild Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 lefthttp://hypography.com/forums/images/smilies/umno.gif[/img] Where do they specifically emanate from? How does this ficticious stream flow against all sides of all celestial bodies at the same time? Why does it push harder on Earth than it does against the same body on moon? Why does it push 250 times harder on Jupiter than it does the Earth? Shouldn't it always push on the same physical size of body regardless of whether or not that body is on Earth, the moon, Jupiter or even the sun? I wonder then, if the author speculates some distinct cosmic point of origin for the birth place of these gravity streams. A "center of the universe" theory then, all gravity emminating from a central location? Also, in the author's "arrow" example he states that as each arrow passes through the target it "drags" the target towards the direction in which it was traveling. What happens to this mystery particle? Does it impart energy on the particles it smacks into (as I would imagine)? How does the author propose detecting these gravity streams? Does he have any experimental data to backup his theory? jCc ps: http://www.thefinaltheory.com/pages/1/index.htm Found the above link via google text ads. Seems as if the author isnt the only one publishing a book bent on turning physics upside down. Really the only thing that throws me too much about all this is the vehemit "you are so wrong" air I get from these works. Solid proof sways opinions. Sure, some of the founders of QM didnt exactally have "solid proof" (and as I understand it still dont) but then again their theories weren't universally accepted either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 So where are the particles emanating from? If I throw a ball into the air then what is the supposed source of these particles that push it back to the ground? Understand C1ay that I'm not necessarily agreeing with this view, I'm just being the devil's advocate for the purpose of inquiry only. Could we ask the question? Is this pressure not a particle but rather the energy density of the universe, or maybe the presence of the so called dark energy that many have theorized. Sounds a lot like aether to me, what do you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 I wonder then, if the author speculates some distinct cosmic point of origin for the birth place of these gravity streams. A "center of the universe" theory then, all gravity emminating from a central location? Also, in the author's "arrow" example he states that as each arrow passes through the target it "drags" the target towards the direction in which it was traveling. What happens to this mystery particle? Does it impart energy on the particles it smacks into (as I would imagine)? How does the author propose detecting these gravity streams? Does he have any experimental data to backup his theory?Kind of makes me wonder why the moon doesn't fall to the Earth or the Earth to the sun. This thread really is a great candidate for the Strange Claims Forum. I'm just waiting for him to cinch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Sounds a lot like aether to me, what do you think.It sounds like poppy cock to me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 It sounds like poppy cock to me....I think your discription is very close to the truth C1ay. But we can still have a little fun with it, don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 This thread really is a great candidate for the Strange Claims Forum. I'm just waiting for him to cinch it. I think most of us would be willing to go there to chase it down............if we have the interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannel Roberts Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 lefthttp://hypography.com/forums/images/smilies/umno.gif[/img] How does this ficticious stream flow against all sides of all celestial bodies at the same time? Why does it push harder on Earth than it does against the same body on moon? Why does it push 250 times harder on Jupiter than it does the Earth? Shouldn't it always push on the same physical size of body regardless of whether or not that body is on Earth, the moon, Jupiter or even the sun? Thank you guys for all your interest. If nothing else I am providing you with some entertainment. Have fun with it. If you are on Jupiter there are more streams of gravity. The larger the object the more steams of gravity. Think of it as having many more archers. There are more arrows so the push is increased. I am serious about this. I am hoping to share some ideas that I have. I am trying to figure out how things work, and if I am wrong I am wrong. I would rather try something and fail rather than do nothing. What if gravity is a particle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannel Roberts Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 I wonder then, if the author speculates some distinct cosmic point of origin for the birth place of these gravity streams. A "center of the universe" theory then, all gravity emminating from a central location? .. Thank you for your question. I do not see a center of the universe or a central location for the source of the particles. I see a universe that feeds particles out from all directions. Look at the sky at night and look at all the light from all the starts. I view light as a particle as well. Light has been called a photon. What happens to light after it reaches its destination? Does it disappear? I think it stays as a particle and can change into another form of energy, a gravity steam being one of them. Light is just one of many potential sources of particles to fill a gravity stream. Thank you for your kindness of the way you are asking your questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannel Roberts Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Also, in the author's "arrow" example he states that as each arrow passes through the target it "drags" the target towards the direction in which it was traveling. What happens to this mystery particle? Does it impart energy on the particles it smacks into (as I would imagine)? How does the author propose detecting these gravity streams? Does he have any experimental data to backup his theory? What happens to the particle? This is a great question that I was hoping someone would ask. This tells me someone is at least thinking my idea through. What happens to the mystery particle is off the subject. I will answer this question when I start a thread on what I think powers the sun. I have the same detecting equipment that has been used since Newton(observation). I have no experimental data to backup my theory only a working model on paper. Gravity being a particle is possible. I do think it is worth investigating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 If you are on Jupiter there are more streams of gravity. The larger the object the more steams of gravity.And what about this Jupiter sized star with 96 times the mass of Jupiter? Is it's gravity based on it's size, thereby similar to Jupiter or based on it's mass with 96 times the gravity of Jupiter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAHD Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 What if gravity is a particle? There are some who support membrane theory that propose gravity is a 4D particle, check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerseun Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Gravity being a particle is possible. I do think it is worth investigating.Where does the particle come from? And why does it aim for mass? Regarding your "arrow" analogy, who's doing the shooting? And why would this particle bypass the moon to hit the Earth? I think a dent in spacetime is much more descriptive of the observed phenomena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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