How Close Are We To The Game Of The Anime Sword Art Online And The Technology?

[A-wal]

Yea, there's no distinction between a fully automated artificial reality and a 'real' one. Real is a subjective term, it would be real to anyone who was born inside it and didn't know anything else. There's a self correction code used by some search engines that's also been found embedded into the universe. ;)

[Viperion]

Ever consider lucid dream state a way to create a Full dive VRMMO?

 

Since i've seen SAO tv series.

 

once nerve gear is on, the person enter in a dream like state.(eyes closed) In dream state, the body is naturallly paralysed. While i do not possess the scientific knowlegde, It kind of makes sense to me.. Somes times i happen to remember a dream, they tend to feel very real.

 

I've seen alot of methods like require surgery or nano tech in order to create full dive tech

 

So i was curious if someone has though this out?

 

How much do we know about dream states? It is teoretical possible taking a advantage to create a dream in order to create a alternativ reality within our mind?

Edited December 25, 2015 by Viperion

[NotBrad]

Ever consider lucid dream state a way to create a Full dive VRMMO?

 

Since i've seen SAO tv series.

 

once nerve gear is on, the person enter in a dream like state.(eyes closed) In dream state, the body is naturallly paralysed. While i do not possess the scientific knowlegde, It kind of makes sense to me.. Somes times i happen to remember a dream, they tend to feel very real.

 

I've seen alot of methods like require surgery or nano tech in order to create full dive tech

 

So i was curious if someone has though this out?

 

How much do we know about dream states? It is teoretical possible taking a advantage to create a dream in order to create a alternativ reality within our mind?

Potentially. The biggest issue faced by any person pursuing this metaphorical holy grail of immersion(though I would argue that it is also the real one leading to eternal life) is the calibration. I have repeated myself countless times to little effect. Every human brain functions slightly different, it functions using neither binary or quantum computing. It uses a system of linked nodes that create a dynamic network of neurons that create a particular memory. These neurons can be part of many different memories but the flow of electrical signals and which branches receives them determines the memories that are recalled. But no two humans have the same layout of neurons within their brain due to aging and the fact that growth is non-uniform. An individual with a genius level intellect will require additional calibration over an individual with an average or below-average intellect. These issues significantly overrule those lesser concerns as there is no possibility for a non-intrusive mass-produced device unless some way to calibrate the product to a very precise degree. If this does not happen there is the potential for the device to kill somebody that has an odd pattern to their neurons and could lead to death or worse. There is also the possibility of an intrusive surgery into the neck a/o the brain stem which would require significantly less calibration and would trade the risk of device malfunction for surgical error. But this is only speculation on the issue. I personally would much rather see a device like the one represented in AccelWorld; the Neuro-Linker(this device was actually designed by Kazuto Kirigaya from SAO and takes place years later). This device serves as an alternative to cellphones that stands to be far superior in every way. Such a device would certainly be quite amazing wouldn't you agree?

This device also functions while awake and takes the place of a computer, as far as I understand it uses cloud computing to provide the functionality of a PC while only transferring the necessary info over the network.

[CraigD]

Ever consider lucid dream state a way to create a Full dive VRMMO?

We had some discussion of this approach in and following this Dec 2014 post.

[NotBrad]

Here is a simple thought, due to the fact that perceived pain through a FullDive device does not actually make the pain real, all you need to do is have a calibration system at purchase using sensors and standardized patterns as a reference, then do something that would stimulate the users sense of touch on various body parts while watching the brain to see what is stimulated in the reference zone of either the brain or the brain stem. Imagine going down to your local EBGames and they have a system that calibrates the FD device for you.

Also, like I said in my post, a system involving the brain stem would require less calibration. People don't even read the full post before shooting you down. Yes, the use of the brain stem would require less calibration, but also provide less functionality. It is entirely conceivable that a system implanted within the brain could be planted within children at a young age and they would learn to use it as they develop. This would allow them to heal all damage done during the surgery as well as to adapt their brains to the presence of the foreign object. This would also allow them to exist both within the physical world and the internet meaning they could in theory transcend our current state once their understanding of the device reaches maturity(not necessarily a good thing depending on perspective). But this would potentially allow for the accelerated world as seen in the show. They actually make a point of saying in the show that only children who have had the device since birth can use the program.

Edited January 6, 2016 by NotBrad

[NotBrad]

Wouldn't a system based on 'entering' sensory information to the brain and 'taking' motor neuron information from areas such as the spinal cord be many times more efficient than directly connecting with the brain? It would require nowhere near the amount of calibration required to directly interface with the brain (including the brain stem). It would also negate the need for a foreign object inserted into the brain, (the spinal cord is much more accessible, and need I say, better organised than the brain) which I believe will interfere with normal brain activity (if I'm accurately gauging the size of such a system). Also, I will add that a child brain grows, while a foreign object doesn't. This may displace the original location such an object was supposed to go to. It may also disrupt normal cognitive development. 

 

P.S NotBrad, rather than trying to shoot your ideas down, I'm more trying to give constructive criticism, and debate you on such matters, so ideas can be further developed. 

Sure, there would be displacement, and yes the spinal cord a/o brain stem are infinitely more accessible. But by interfacing with either of these you are restricted to input in the form of a UI a/o HUD. By interfacing directly with the brain you can create something far more advanced than simply an augmented reality program. This could actually pose an issue and I would not push for it as there are many potential problems that can be associated with it. The displacement is a non-issue due to the fact that said growth takes place over years and there would be a constant interaction between the brain and said interface, the brain would calibrate itself around the implants, and because they are input-only they can be located on the outside between the brain and the skull, allowing for easy access in the case of problems appearing. There was a short discussion about some research being done at MIT with nano-tubes that can transfer electrical or fiber-optic signals(to light sensitive brain tissues) to perform the data transfer. Of course this approach does not allow for increases in bandwidth without additional surgery, I think this is a non-issue as well due to the fact that you can easily cause sensory overload, understanding that there is no reason to increase the bandwidth of said system beyond what the human brain can actually accommodate.

[ScienceKid14]

Re-edit: Note: That this is theory a thought an idea not \official also i didn't want to re edit to make it longer as i thought it would be more complicated so hopefully it will be more understanding this time now that it is longer.

 

The Nerve Gear is told to have an internal battery as the main power and has a power cord to charge the Nerve-gear and a semi conducter cpu which is a 2022 cutting edge like CPU which contains  88GHz in the CPU,

Also there is a Microwave transceiver that has a 1-100GHz microwave range  and a EHF(Extremely High Frequency) at 30-300GHz. Microwave ovens would run at 2.45GHz with wattage's between 400 to 1600 watts it is used as the Nerve-gears Neuron Manipulation.

These are important as they are what pretty much run the NerveGear, i beilive the NerveGear uses the Microwave transceiver to create the fulldive like experience as the microwaves transceivers produce blocking thats able to stimulate and block certain movements like the sensory signals it would hopefully keep the body somewhat paralyzed to stop themselves from interfering outside the virtual world, synthetic noise is would be generated by artificial signals and then the artificial signal would be sent to the brain and as for motor signal are directed into then translated for use as a input for the NerveGear

Edited January 19, 2016 by ScienceKid14

[CraigD]

Welcome to Hypography, ScienceKid13! :) Please feel free to start a topic in the introductions forum to tell us something about yourself.

Microwave trancievers are capable of blocking,stimulating and manipulating certain urenal activity ...

I think you misspelled “neural” “urenal”.

 

Can you provide a link or reference supporting this claim :QuestionM

 

To the best of my knowledge, it’s entirely incorrect.

 

Backing up your claims with links and references is the single most important rule here at Hypography. If you don’t carefully research what you believe to be true by finding published scientific support for it, you can fall victim of believing very false things.

[ScienceKid14]

Welcome to Hypography, ScienceKid13! :) Please feel free to start a topic in the introductions forum to tell us something about yourself.

I think you misspelled “neural” “urenal”.

 

Can you provide a link or reference supporting this claim :QuestionM

 

To the best of my knowledge, it’s entirely incorrect.

 

Backing up your claims with links and references is the single most important rule here at Hypography. If you don’t carefully research what you believe to be true by finding published scientific support for it, you can fall victim of believing very false things.

i apologize i wanted to keep it short and simple but ill re edit and make it longer so it can be more understandable as i have mixed myself up here is some of the links i used i should also thanks for the heads up

http://swordartonline.wikia.com/wiki/NerveGear

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_transmission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcra...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcra...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcut...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcur...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinal_c...

https://www.google.com/search?q=vagus...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroe...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoe...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function...

Edited January 18, 2016 by ScienceKid14

[CraigD]

The Nerve Gear is told to have an internal battery as the main power and has a power cord to charge the Nerve-gear and a semi conducter cpu which is a 2022 cutting edge like CPU which contains 88GHz in the CPU,

Also there is a Microwave transceiver that has a 1-100GHz microwave range and a EHF(Extremely High Frequency) at 30-300GHz. Microwave ovens would run at 2.45GHz with wattage's between 400 to 1600 watts it is used as the Nerve-gears Neuron Manipulation.

That’s a description of a fictional device, which takes artistic license with physics.

 

In reality, microwaves (electromagnetic radiation in the 1 to 0.001 m wavelength, 300,000,000 to 300,000,000,000 Hz frequency range) can’t be used to interact with neurons, primarily for the same reason that other EM radiation can’t, because neurons are not more or less transparent to various EM radiation than tissues like skin. Radiation in the microwave range is mostly absorbed by the skin, only about 1% penetrating deeper than 0.01 m. This makes it useful for non-lethal weapons, because it can quickly heat skin, causing pain, but not much good for imaging or stimulating neurons. Some microwaves penetrate deeply, but don’t have measurable immediate effects. The long term effects of much microwave radiation are bad – they heat and damage tissue.

 

My guess is that Kawahara chose “microwave transceivers” as the key component in the NerveGear because it sounds cool, and because microwave transceivers are real, commonplace (radar door openers, etc) devices. Using them to manipulate the brain, however, is entirely fictional.

 

Source: What effect can a microwave have on DNA? UCSB Scienceline; Pathophysiology of microwave-induced traumatic brain injury (2015) Igarashi, Matsuda, Fuse, Ishiwata, Naito and Yokota

[ipatrol]

Sure, there would be displacement, and yes the spinal cord a/o brain stem are infinitely more accessible. But by interfacing with either of these you are restricted to input in the form of a UI a/o HUD. By interfacing directly with the brain you can create something far more advanced than simply an augmented reality program. This could actually pose an issue and I would not push for it as there are many potential problems that can be associated with it. The displacement is a non-issue due to the fact that said growth takes place over years and there would be a constant interaction between the brain and said interface, the brain would calibrate itself around the implants, and because they are input-only they can be located on the outside between the brain and the skull, allowing for easy access in the case of problems appearing. There was a short discussion about some research being done at MIT with nano-tubes that can transfer electrical or fiber-optic signals(to light sensitive brain tissues) to perform the data transfer. Of course this approach does not allow for increases in bandwidth without additional surgery, I think this is a non-issue as well due to the fact that you can easily cause sensory overload, understanding that there is no reason to increase the bandwidth of said system beyond what the human brain can actually accommodate.

In the show itself, the system interface was indeed in the form of a HUD, with the system menu being opened up by making a swiping gesture with one's finger. This, to me, seems like a quite ideal way of creating a VR UI. Any interfacing on a deeper level could potentially open a Pandora's box of privacy issues.

[CraigD]

In the show itself, the system interface was indeed in the form of a HUD, with the system menu being opened up by making a swiping gesture with one's finger. This, to me, seems like a quite ideal way of creating a VR UI.

To me, the pop-up menus shown in SOA are pretty crummy interface. Having gone to all the trouble of creating a near perfect, realistic, immersive VR experience, they immediately break the immersion, reminding the user that they are not really in the simulated reality.

 

Even in present-day, keyboard/controller + screen games, I think the strongest designs are one that preserve the immersion in the simulated reality experience. For example, a carried object doesn’t simply disappear into an other-dimensional “inventory slot”, to be retrieved via a GUI menu screen, but appears on a sensible in-game place, such on the game avatar’s back, belt, or in a bag or pack. Retrieving it involves a realistic action, such as rummaging through a pack. Similarly, rather than the action of quitting the game being performed by selecting the logout action from a pop-up menu, to preserve immersion, it can be the act of going to bed and sleeping.

 

I’ve not seen this design approach much realized – I recall a few forgettable 1990s games – but much of this is, I think, because of the limitations of keyboard/controller + screen interfaces. These limitations wouldn’t be present in a truly immersive VR system.

[17robots]

That's good MrDonaldCrack. If you would be so kind as to share it with me upon completion, that would be much appreciated.

[Marcel]

I've herd nerve gear is really dangerous so why don't the creators just my the gear that kiritos sister had on in sao

[17robots]

Yeah I think that the goal is not to trap people and kill them with it

[NotBrad]

Yeah I think that the goal is not to trap people and kill them with it

Says you... My goal is to COMPLETELY recreate SAO... I will also be changing my legal name to Akihiko Kayaba and moving to Japan, then learning fluent Japanese.

[CaelesMessorem]

To me, the pop-up menus shown in SOA are pretty crummy interface. Having gone to all the trouble of creating a near perfect, realistic, immersive VR experience, they immediately break the immersion, reminding the user that they are not really in the simulated reality.

 

Even in present-day, keyboard/controller + screen games, I think the strongest designs are one that preserve the immersion in the simulated reality experience. For example, a carried object doesn’t simply disappear into an other-dimensional “inventory slot”, to be retrieved via a GUI menu screen, but appears on a sensible in-game place, such on the game avatar’s back, belt, or in a bag or pack. Retrieving it involves a realistic action, such as rummaging through a pack. Similarly, rather than the action of quitting the game being performed by selecting the logout action from a pop-up menu, to preserve immersion, it can be the act of going to bed and sleeping.

 

I’ve not seen this design approach much realized – I recall a few forgettable 1990s games – but much of this is, I think, because of the limitations of keyboard/controller + screen interfaces. These limitations wouldn’t be present in a truly immersive VR system.

 

I think they're kind of cool personally, but I agree they destroy immersion. A good idea to build off of (in my opinion) would be something similar to what is seen in the anime "Konosuba -God's Blessing on this Wonderful World!" In the show, after arriving in the new world, the protagonists are given player/ guild cards, which they use to see available and current skills, status, titles, etc. If VR games followed this idea and adapted it, although it would still essentially be a menu, it wouldn't break immersion as badly as just a blatant floating menu.