Jimsolos Dive-Tech Development Thread

[bobbobkilu]

 

The brain has figured out that if it re-routes each pulse of signal and opens and closes various gates within each neural link to get the information where it needs to go, it can regain certain functions.

 

 

I don't see what this has to do with interception of signals; the brain is able to restructure itself to recover from damage, true, but there is no reason for it to do so otherwise.

 

[NotBrad]

 

I don't see what this has to do with interception of signals; the brain is able to restructure itself to recover from damage, true, but there is no reason for it to do so otherwise.

 

We do not fully understand the brain, but we do know that it is designed for gradual transition, ie changes taking place over long periods of time. Think of the effects on a person after many years of being in a coma, since the body and mind are out of sync for great periods of time there is need for the brain to re-calibrate it's motor functions. Now imagine that you are constantly switching bodies as the mind sees it. The system would likely need to be re-calibrated quite often, or else the mapping used for the body in-game and the real body would begin to have subtle differences. Differences that could potentially lead to issues with the brain constantly trying to repair itself and re-calibrate. There could potentially be significant adverse effect from such an issue, such as disorientation or even temporary paralysis. Those would be serious issues if they were to become a reality.

Edited April 17, 2016 by NotBrad

[17robots]

True. And because of the fact that our brains are all wired differently that ma also cause a problem.

[weamy]

It's nice to know that we've got something going and in progress. But I hardly understand anything about code or computers so I think I'll just stick to the biology part of the Nerve Gear. Hoping to go to uni in a few years to study Neuroscience.

 

Let's do this.

 

We do not fully understand the brain, but we do know that it is designed for gradual transition, ie changes taking place over long periods of time. Think of the effects on a person after many years of being in a coma, since the body and mind are out of sync for great periods of time there is need for the brain to re-calibrate it's motor functions. Now imagine that you are constantly switching bodies as the mind sees it. The system would likely need to be re-calibrated quite often, or else the mapping used for the body in-game and the real body would begin to have subtle differences. Differences that could potentially lead to issues with the brain constantly trying to repair itself and re-calibrate. There could potentially be significant adverse effect from such an issue, such as disorientation or even temporary paralysis. Those would be serious issues if they were to become a reality.

 

Very true. I think there have been similair problems with the Oculus Rift. Perhaps a limiter of some sort in the Nerve Gear that only allows the user to enter VR for 3 hours a day which gives the body/brain time to rest. Will also stop people from building a 'second life' inside the VR like in SAO II (Death Gun's partner).

[weamy]

Any updates, Jim?

[NotBrad]

-snip-

 

Very true. I think there have been similair problems with the Oculus Rift. Perhaps a limiter of some sort in the Nerve Gear that only allows the user to enter VR for 3 hours a day which gives the body/brain time to rest. Will also stop people from building a 'second life' inside the VR like in SAO II (Death Gun's partner).

I don't see it as being an issue. I think it would be nice if instead we found a way to initiate the physical(ie neck down) component of sleep while in a full dive. Then what you could do is go to bed, lie down to play, then go straight to sleep from inside the game. Assuming that the brain truly cannot tell the difference between FDVR and real life, it would likely feel like when you regain consciousness after passing out. I personally don't like that feeling(though I've only experienced it once), and think that if FDVR is truly is indistinguishable from real life then going to sleep in the virtual world would put your mind in the same state and therefore have the same effect as going to sleep straight from real life. Plus there are other benefits that likely haven't been discussed yet, such as the possibility of actually reducing the time it takes to fall asleep by creating an artificial sense of exhaustion that would lead you to sleep faster. There is also the bonus that unlike modern computer devices and their melatonin disrupting blue light would actually be just like not having touched a computer since you started the game!

Hope I gave you guys some food for thought, if you want I could start a new thread discussing the benefits and drawbacks of using such a system in this way and whether it's even feasible.

[kungfuboy007]

Honestly, this side of people is something I love, the aspect of working towards a goal with problems in sight without faltering. The progress you've (appeared) so far made is impressive, considering the size of your team. I hope you make more progress towards your goal, and if you ever require a test subject who has thrown caution to the wind, sign me up.

 

 

 

One question, though.

If we were, for instance, to develop this system that allows for such gaming to be possible, how do we control other bodily functions?

Or, bluntly speaking, "bathroom business." I wouldn't prefer wearing a diaper in case of a "slip-up".

 

God why do I question these things.

[JimSolo]

The information redirection theory was purely theoretical, I didn't intend it to be taken that seriously, although there are a lot of valid points that have been raised as to why it should be nothing to worry about. I certainly won't ignore it though, but it does make more sense than not that it isn't really a major factor.

 

As for kungfuboys post, that is something that would have to be considered, it's not as simply as just paralyzing bodily functions. That would shut down the entire system, effectively turning the subject into a vegetable. It's only primary mobility functions that would have to be altered. It's why a version of the system that keeps you motionless won't exist for a *loooong* time. Honestly, 2 - 3 years at the least, potentially more.

 

Not only from a moral standpoint, but a legal and political one, human testing on anything like that won't happen straight away. Too many things that can go wrong. The initial prototype will be fully consciously based. Think HTC vive, only without any lazer locality point sensors, just all controlled through the mind.

 

I'm moving soon (yay -.-), however I have made some more phone-calls and pulled some strings, and have some hardware lined up. It's just a case of getting the thing after I shift house. So until then it's all still software work. On the bright side, the place we're moving to has a large room that I can set up purely for this project. Good too, since the hardware I have lined up is uh... let's be kind. Let's say 'bulky'.

 

 

EDIT: I do just want to re-iterate that the ideas and theories in SAO, while valid, were designed for a fictional setting, in a fictional world, far into the future. For comparisons sake, our boy Kirito, if he existed in this world, would be 8 years old currently. So even in the fictional world, it's a long way to go until a this sort of thing is completed for public use (6 years to be precise).

 

That said, the version of the system I'm working towards is aimed at being used in hospitals for ICU patients. It's no secret to anyone that knows me personally, that I grew up in hospitals, and have seen far more than my fair share of suffering humans. Hence where the unit comes in. Now it doesn't take Einstein to figure out where the inspiration came from, but try not to liken it too much to the NerveGear, at least not just yet. Think of it more as the first steps into advanced BCI research, which will eventually lead to said NerveGears. There are a lot of steps that have to be crossed.

 

We'll all have our castle in the sky, one day. It might be me, it might be someone else here, it could be a team of Russian mobsters that have secretly been developing the technology since 1992. It will happen. And there's no race either, no matter if someone else releases said system in the next few years, I'll still develop mine, since it's primary use is aimed at a different area. I guess I'm writing that more for myself though, so I don't go all 12vie like if another IBM thing comes up.

 

EDIT2: Also got this forum setup to auto open along with a few other websites when I start Firefox now, so I'll be stalking here more regularly. I might not post ever day but I'll certainly be more active. Better than the 2 - 3 week gaps between communication that has plagued the thread since it started (irl's a *****).

Edited April 30, 2016 by JimSolo

[weamy]

@NotBrad  (Not going to quote, it'll take too much space)

 

Theoretically we could. But why would someone want to go to sleep in the game?

Melatonin? Should using the computer make you drowsy? (I think I might be out of my depth)

 

@JimSolo

 

I wish I had your selflessness. If someone else created the Nerve Gear that I didn't know, I would probably

 

1. Scream a bit

2. Check the validaty of the article

3. Scream some more

4. Go around randomly kicking things

5. Sulk for a few days

6. Start working out how to make NeuroLinker (From Accel World)

 

@JimSolo, @NotBrad

I recommend this forum to both of you: nerve.boards.net

The foum itself is pretty inactive, the main activity occurs in the Slack (An IM platform). You should find a link to the Slack under the "Announcements" subforum.

[Gamer1]

Glad to see that this forum will be more active.

[NotBrad]

Glad to see that this forum will be more active.

Don't you mean thread? The forum has a few posts and new threads each day, might not be as popular as some other forums but considering this isn't a defined gathering place for a specific group(like a video game forum) I think it's doing quite well. The number of people who are actually doing work on this subject is quite minimal, meaning there will be few people posting legitimate progress and few posts regarding aforementioned progress. I think that once a sufficiently capable interface is developed that this will explode with entirely new forums being opened and dedicated solely to the stated aim of developers furthering the technology.

 

TLDR; this tech is purely hypothetical in most aspects so we can only spitball so much before we need real concrete progress to discuss

[Gamer1]

Don't you mean thread? 

 

Yes.

[JimSolo]

@NotBrad gets it. That isn't to say to stop discussing the bigger picture. You never know what may come of it, but the smaller picture has to come first.

 

Good thing is, we have places like this where it all can be discussed and archived.

[NotBrad]

@NotBrad gets it. That isn't to say to stop discussing the bigger picture. You never know what may come of it, but the smaller picture has to come first.

 

Good thing is, we have places like this where it all can be discussed and archived.

I am going into programming this fall and am already quite proficient in Java. Unfortunately Java isn't efficient enough to be used in high overhead applications as I see it and I will have to learn one of the C languages to create something worthwhile as an interface. Or I could just use assembly... But really, who has time for that? Maybe once I start I can show my progress here as well! That would be cool. Edited May 3, 2016 by NotBrad

[Gamer1]

So, how is everything going? (When I ask I don't just mean about the tech, I mean, is life getting better.)

[Mactyville]

The information redirection theory was purely theoretical, I didn't intend it to be taken that seriously, although there are a lot of valid points that have been raised as to why it should be nothing to worry about. I certainly won't ignore it though, but it does make more sense than not that it isn't really a major factor.

 

As for kungfuboys post, that is something that would have to be considered, it's not as simply as just paralyzing bodily functions. That would shut down the entire system, effectively turning the subject into a vegetable. It's only primary mobility functions that would have to be altered. It's why a version of the system that keeps you motionless won't exist for a *loooong* time. Honestly, 2 - 3 years at the least, potentially more.

 

Not only from a moral standpoint, but a legal and political one, human testing on anything like that won't happen straight away. Too many things that can go wrong. The initial prototype will be fully consciously based. Think HTC vive, only without any lazer locality point sensors, just all controlled through the mind.

 

I'm moving soon (yay -.-), however I have made some more phone-calls and pulled some strings, and have some hardware lined up. It's just a case of getting the thing after I shift house. So until then it's all still software work. On the bright side, the place we're moving to has a large room that I can set up purely for this project. Good too, since the hardware I have lined up is uh... let's be kind. Let's say 'bulky'.

 

 

EDIT: I do just want to re-iterate that the ideas and theories in SAO, while valid, were designed for a fictional setting, in a fictional world, far into the future. For comparisons sake, our boy Kirito, if he existed in this world, would be 8 years old currently. So even in the fictional world, it's a long way to go until a this sort of thing is completed for public use (6 years to be precise).

 

That said, the version of the system I'm working towards is aimed at being used in hospitals for ICU patients. It's no secret to anyone that knows me personally, that I grew up in hospitals, and have seen far more than my fair share of suffering humans. Hence where the unit comes in. Now it doesn't take Einstein to figure out where the inspiration came from, but try not to liken it too much to the NerveGear, at least not just yet. Think of it more as the first steps into advanced BCI research, which will eventually lead to said NerveGears. There are a lot of steps that have to be crossed.

 

We'll all have our castle in the sky, one day. It might be me, it might be someone else here, it could be a team of Russian mobsters that have secretly been developing the technology since 1992. It will happen. And there's no race either, no matter if someone else releases said system in the next few years, I'll still develop mine, since it's primary use is aimed at a different area. I guess I'm writing that more for myself though, so I don't go all 12vie like if another IBM thing comes up.

 

EDIT2: Also got this forum setup to auto open along with a few other websites when I start Firefox now, so I'll be stalking here more regularly. I might not post ever day but I'll certainly be more active. Better than the 2 - 3 week gaps between communication that has plagued the thread since it started (irl's a *****).

 

 

Been  long time since I was out of the game eh. Anyway Jim I'm glad our thread's still alive, I would really like to update myself on every detail, every events, and specifics that happened here since I was gone. Ever since I went flat out last year I've lost contact with Mikhail and the others.

[Iotus]

Been  long time since I was out of the game eh. Anyway Jim I'm glad our thread's still alive, I would really like to update myself on every detail, every events, and specifics that happened here since I was gone. Ever since I went flat out last year I've lost contact with Mikhail and the others.

We are still alive...... to an extent I guess lol. I think Mikhail was looking to start digiaxon v. 2. Harris and I are still chugging along at Nerve. Nice to see you again though ;)