Nuclear Iran?

[sanctus]

Rac, read post 9 and 11

[NotBrad]

Rac, read post 9 and 11

is that a 9/11 joke?

[billvon]

I do not hate them, them being any person who lives a different lifestyle, has a different appearance, speaks a different language, or follows a different religion. But there is one simple fact that I can honestly tell you, when **** hits the fan, and the oil runs out, the life we live will change. Whether or not that is the futuristic idealism we see in science fiction, the chaotic apocalypse we see in films such as MAD MAX, or the desolate wastelands depicted in games like Fallout, will change the outcome. But if war is what comes, there will undoubtedly be lines drawn according to culture, then race, then language, and perhaps even religion before all is said and done. And that is an irrefutable fact.

You have just described the basis of all bigotry and racism.  And while we do show a sad tendency towards it, we are maturing as a species and are now much more able to overcome our baser instincts and treat people according to their words and actions, rather than the color of their skin or their religion.  Provided we can avoid collapse of society, I expect that to continue.

 

 

. I am relatively certain that many of you are likely from abroad, and will likely not have seen our capital city of Toronto recently, but IT IS APPALLING. Plain and simple. There are parts of the city like Richmond Hill that have entire malls that have Chinese signage only.

 

But I bet the food is pretty good.  Down here in San Diego a lot of signs are Spanish only.  When I lived in Boston, there often wasn't an English word to be seen at some places in Chinatown.   I'm fine with that.  If you're not - go to a McDonald's.  Your choice.

Don't get me wrong, some of them are nice people, and one of my friends is even Chinese, but he has assimilated, so I accept him into my country.

 

Is that the classic "I'm not racist, I have black friends" defense?

I ONLY HATE COLONISTS WHO PRETEND TO BE IMMIGRANTS, AND MAKE NO MISTAKE, THEY ARE COLONISTS.

 

 

I don't quite know how to tell you this, but unless you are a native American, you are a colonist.  Why haven't you assimilated into Native American society?

JUST LIKE WE DID NOT TAKE UP THE LIFESTYLE OF THE NORTH AMERICAN INDIAN WHEN WE GOT HERE, THEY ARE NOT TAKING UP OUR LIFESTYLE. AND I THINK WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE INDIAN ONCE ENOUGH PEOPLE WERE GOT OFF THE BOATS.

 

 

They have no more obligation to take up your lifestyle as you had to take up Native American's lifestyle.

To conclude it is quite simple, while we as the north american white man went west in the hopes of a brighter future, they too came east, and when all is said and done, when it becomes apparent that there is no longer enough to share, we will all fight for what remains, and I simply believe that we are allowing them to invade us without the use of military, because as we all know, there already isn't enough to share

 

Here's what the US founding father Benjamin Franklin had to say about those damn swarthy Germans:

 

==============

Those who come hither are generally of the most ignorant Stupid Sort of their own Nation…and as few of the English understand the German Language, and so cannot address them either from the Press or Pulpit, ’tis almost impossible to remove any prejudices they once entertain…Not being used to Liberty, they know not how to make a modest use of it…I remember when they modestly declined intermeddling in our Elections, but now they come in droves, and carry all before them, except in one or two Counties...In short unless the stream of their importation could be turned from this to other colonies, as you very judiciously propose, they will soon so out number us, that all the advantages we have will not in My Opinion be able to preserve our language, and even our Government will become precarious.

 

Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the  English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.

==============

 

And what happened?  They Germanized us!  Hamburgers and hot dogs are now staples of American diets.  Budweiser is one of our favorite beers, and we have a lot of breweries here.  We work five day weeks and put our kids in public schools, starting with kindergarten.  Our kids read Hansel and Gretel and are delighted by Christmas trees, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.  We play Steinway pianos, use Weyerhauser lumber, drive Chryslers and wear Bausch and Lomb glasses.

 

"But wait" you say "those aren't examples of German culture - they are examples of American culture!"  Exactly. 

 

And some day you will be eating Chinese food with a Canadian name, complaining that new immigrants who don't like that Chinese food aren't assimilating into "your" Canadian culture.

[NotBrad]

Well, then.

 

I guess you really cannot have your cake and eat it too.

 

So here it is, BENJAMIN FRANKLIN AGREED WITH ME. Plain and simple. AND HE WAS RIGHT! You legitimately gave me real historical evidence supporting my theory, and proved my point. I get that we today are the sum of the historical past our country has, but do you think that the people who lived during that enjoyed having to live through a transition like that? Plus as a side note, you are horribly wrong, even though your point would in theory stand to reinforce my own opinion, it is quite simply wrong. I have German lineage, and speak English. Just like every other Immigrant who came over during that time period. So that is an irrefutable fact, they have assimilated far more than we have by adopting our language, which is something that those Chinese immigrants are failing to do. So your point is completely irrelevant and invalid. But my point stands, regardless of any other fact you can reference out of context to prove that I am wrong, there is no arguing an opinion. I have mine, and you have yours. In this case the reason you are so defensive about the whole matter is because my words demonize you and yours in a way that actually reflects historical patterns and is based solely upon easily reached conclusions that every reasonable individual on the planet has already reached.

 

Here is an example of a real situation that could occur that is relevant to the topic more-so than your personal vendetta against all that do not share your views.

 

So you are the Iranian general(highest ranking), sitting there at your desk, and an officer bursts into your room stating that American soldiers have been seen on Iranian soil.

 

How do you react? (remember that you are in character right now)

 

TIMELINE B(Iran has no nukes): 

You order all military units to standby and deploy the QRF to move close to the location of the site and wait for further instruction. Then you get together with the heads of the various military branches and political figures, to prepare yourselves for talks with their equivalent members from the US.

 

TIMELINE A(Iran has nukes): 

You order that the nukes be prepared for launch, then order all military units to standby and deploy the QRF to move close to the location of the site and wait for further instruction. Then you get together with the heads of the various military branches and political figures, to prepare yourselves for talks with their equivalent members from the US.

 

See the difference? Only the nukes. Now, that is a situation that quite generously puts Iran on the defensive, but it does quite harshly outline the circumstances of this debate you have started with me. Do you think the situation would be any different if say, Iran was to attempt something similar against the US? No, because the US would easily wipe out any Iranian attack long before they got here. And they know it. The only reason they want nukes is because they feel threatened by an enemy whom they cannot determine the motives, objectives, or capabilities of.

 

That is completely identical to my issue here in Canada, the Chinese that are being brought in here ARE NOT CANADIAN, DO NOT WANT TO BE CANADIAN, AND WILL NOT BE CANADIAN. Their children might become true Canadian citizens through exposure to our culture at a young age when they are still developing their sense of self and individual identity. All that said, I am okay with them embracing and including their Chinese heritage within that greater whole, but when they intentionally isolate themselves and begin to filter out our western influence, then that becomes an issue. I can tell you that I like Chinese food, and Japanese food, and German food, and all sorts of other foods. That is part of cultural diversity, but that can only exist when there is a homogeneous solution (in chemistry it means that there are many different components but they do not separate and form a whole that is a sum of their chemical properties), when their is a heterogeneous solution all of those separate groups retain their individual properties and refrain from contributing in order to form a greater whole. We in my town have very specific groups of people that we stereotype(jokingly) based on what part of the city they grew up in, (which is 3,200 km²) but at the end of the day I treat all of them equally, and my best friends are all from all over. I get that some people don't want to be forced to change their way of life, bu that way of life is part of the country you came from, you are totally free to share some of that with us here, but you should also take on our lifestyle as well.

 

ALSO - FUN FACT TIME!

Did you know that the average Canadian just doesn't give a crap?

Did you know that the average Canadian makes 50 cents more than the average american, but prices are based on the current value of the Canadian dollar? (75 cents american)

Did you know that Canada is currently under threat of being removed from NATO due to insufficient military spending?

Did you know that Canada is no longer on the UN Security council?

Did you know that Canada is cutting funding to veteran assistance programs?

Did you know that the wait time for me to see my family doctor is more than 2 months?

Did you know that in Ontario anal sex and gay relationships are now being taught as being okay as part of sexual education?

Did you know that in Ontario they are also teaching that gender is merely a social construct, and that you can choose what gender represents you best, IN GRADE 3?

Did you know that these changes were shelved within three days of being brought forth due to nearly unilateral outcry province-wide? But was then brought back three years later once the party had a majority government?

 

Now you know how ****ed up Canada has become due to pacifism and tolerance, and if I am not mistaken, you did say you were a Muslim right? So don't you think those last two are at least a little bit wrong? That is only the tip of the metaphorical iceberg, but I will let you decide if there are worse tings to come.

 

Did you read this far? Well if you are a real Canadian you would agree with me, because the only way to truly be a Canadian is to support the country, its people, and its culture. But that does not include tolerance, that is just something we Canadians are naturally because we have never had to fight for our rights, we don't make those Chinese people follow our way of life because we have never had any real threat to it before. The true American hates immigrants because they have been raised to think that everybody wants what they have, and it is their duty to protect it, we Canadians are unwillign to fight because we have been bred and taught our entire lives that through pacifism and tolerance we shall simply be given **** as a reward for going along dumbly and dealing with it. That is why we have national health care, that is why we have so many useless tools living off welfare, and that is why those immigrants will take over this country simply by us not raising a hand to stop them.

 

Thank you again for your time, and billvon remember to re-read what I posted, because your last post was hilariously ignorant (not my doing, but you had several quotes in order that literally explained the meaning of the previously quoted text so as to agree with your statements)

Edited September 30, 2015 by NotBrad

[sanctus]

Not Brad, I did not see the connection I really meant for Rac to read post 11 and 9...:-)

[NotBrad]

Well I honestly wasn't sure so I really did have to ask. But really kind of a funky coincidence considering the topic and off topic debate on the justification for religious and ethnic prejudice.

[billvon]

Well, then.

 

I guess you really cannot have your cake and eat it too.

 

So here it is, BENJAMIN FRANKLIN AGREED WITH ME. Plain and simple. AND HE WAS RIGHT! You legitimately gave me real historical evidence supporting my theory, and proved my point. I get that we today are the sum of the historical past our country has, but do you think that the people who lived during that enjoyed having to live through a transition like that?

 

Most of them did.  I do.  Most of the people I know enjoy all the things that immigrants have brought to our culture. Some were xenophobes like Franklin (and you.)  That's your choice.

 

I find it hilarious that you are defending a culture that was created by colonists, and stating that colonists have no right to create a culture. 

 

there is no arguing an opinion. I have mine, and you have yours.

 

Very true!

 

 

 

In this case the reason you are so defensive about the whole matter is because my words demonize you and yours in a way that actually reflects historical patterns and is based solely upon easily reached conclusions that every reasonable individual on the planet has already reached.

 

Not defensive at all.  My culture doesn't need defending, nor does yours.  If you choose to be a xenophobe that's your right.   Fortunately you are in the minority.

Now you know how ****ed up Canada has become due to pacifism and tolerance, and if I am not mistaken, you did say you were a Muslim right?

 

You are 0 for 2.

The true American hates immigrants . . . .

 

Nope.  Per Pew polls, Americans think that immigrants improve the economy, reduce crime and make American society better in the long run.  And thus far they have been proven right.

and that is why those immigrants will take over this country simply by us not raising a hand to stop them.

 

They already have taken over your country - and you admit that you are one of them. 

 

This is fun to watch.  It's a hoot to watch an immigrant complain about immigrants, and demand that others refrain from doing what he does.  Tell me, what if a native American demanded that you abandon your German ways and adopt the traditional culture of your new home?  Would you do it?

[NotBrad]

...

 

:huh:

 

:confused:

 

Okay.

 

I see.

 

It is made painfully clear now.

 

I.

 

Am.

 

A.

 

Bad.

 

Writer.

 

So, I will say this as a closing argument. Iran must deemed a threat so long as they strive for weaponry to defend themselves. Not that they are evil for desiring the means to defend themselves, but because we are the enemy they fear.

 

edit:

so when you said that I was a threat to your way of life, which way of life were you representing with that comment? Just curious since your response was on a pretty long winded commentary on the historical conflicts and general hatred between the west and Muslims. (I say west since the radical individuals lump all whites into the same boat)

Edited October 1, 2015 by NotBrad

[billvon]

.So, I will say this as a closing argument. Iran must deemed a threat so long as they strive for weaponry to defend themselves. Not that they are evil for desiring the means to defend themselves, but because we are the enemy they fear.

 

 

Agreed.  Of course, we have far more threats than Iran - and have faced far more dire threats throughout our history.  Take the Cuban missile crisis, where we were seconds away from a nuclear war with Russia.  We succeeded there by managing to not start a war, and indeed won against both the USSR and Cuba via the best method possible - outliving our enemies while letting them collapse under their own weight.

so when you said that I was a threat to your way of life, which way of life were you representing with that comment? Just curious since your response was on a pretty long winded commentary on the historical conflicts and general hatred between the west and Muslims.

 

I didn't say that you were a threat to my way of life.  I'm not worried about you changing it; if you do, it will just become part of our culture, just as the Chinese and Muslims in Canada are becoming part of yours. 

 

I asked what we should do about the "problem" you pose to our way of life.  The reason that "problem" is in quotes is to indicate that it's not really a problem.  You said that Muslims were a problem because even if they were peaceful, they were capable of violence if provoked.  You then said that YOU were capable of violence if provoked (i.e. you will defend your rights "with force if necessary.")  In other words, you are the same level of "problem" as they are - both you and they, if provoked, can become violent.  That's true of all people, and thus such people are no more of a problem than you are.

 

 

(I say west since the radical individuals lump all whites into the same boat)

 

Seems fair.  You lump all Muslims in the same boat.

[NotBrad]

I asked what we should do about the "problem" you pose to our way of life.  The reason that "problem" is in quotes is to indicate that it's not really a problem.  You said that Muslims were a problem because even if they were peaceful, they were capable of violence if provoked.  You then said that YOU were capable of violence if provoked (i.e. you will defend your rights "with force if necessary.")  In other words, you are the same level of "problem" as they are - both you and they, if provoked, can become violent.  That's true of all people, and thus such people are no more of a problem than you are.

 

Well, that is not what I meant, what I meant was that there were peaceful Muslims who would not participate unless the entire group was provoked. Like the world trade centre, many Americans disagreed with the first Persian Gulf War, and would not have gone back. But the attack of 9/11 enraged even the people who would have stood against America going to war again in the Middle-East. I am not saying anything bad against those individuals, but I am sure that if Canada were to go to war against a Muslim country, some of those "Peaceful Muslims" living in Canada would certainly stand against it, and I am also sure some would start a rebellion against the government. But that is today, tomorrow when they outnumber us and the US goes to war, those of us in Canada who would be seen as the same as Americans could potentially receive similar treatment to the Japanese in the Second World War, or even worse like the Jewish people living in Germany. I am not saying these individuals are all evil, but neither were all the Germans.

 

When I see a Muslim walking down the street, I do not instantly think they are an enemy. But when I walk down a street and see that there are a lot of Muslims, I see my voting power diminished in a society that is supposed to represent everybody.

[pgrmdave]

a society that is supposed to represent everybody.

Except for the different people.

[billvon]

 

When I see a Muslim walking down the street, I do not instantly think they are an enemy. But when I walk down a street and see that there are a lot of Muslims, I see my voting power diminished in a society that is supposed to represent everybody.

Muslims are part of "everybody."  So are women, and blacks, and atheists, and Jews, and whites, and gun owners, and motorists, and pilots.  In a democracy you don't get to decide that you are "more equal" than someone else, no matter what their race or religion.

[NotBrad]

Except for the different people.

Wow. Guess people really do come that dumb.

 

Muslims are part of "everybody."  So are women, and blacks, and atheists, and Jews, and whites, and gun owners, and motorists, and pilots.  In a democracy you don't get to decide that you are "more equal" than someone else, no matter what their race or religion.

No, you actually do. I don't know what country you are from and I don't care. You are a liberal coward who hides behind empty words and false trust. Whether everyone who is different is evil does not matter. If you invite enough strangers into your house, one of them is bound to eventually rob or kill you. But to continue letting them in after a previous incident? That's just ridiculous and idiotic.

[pgrmdave]

If you invite enough strangers into your house, one of them is bound to eventually rob or kill you. But to continue letting them in after a previous incident? That's just ridiculous and idiotic.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how democracy works. It isn't "your house". You live there, and it's the house of everybody who lives there. As more people come in it's "their house" too. Just because you were there before them doesn't mean that your needs and wants are more important than theirs in the slightest.

[billvon]

Wow. Guess people really do come that dumb.

 

No, you actually do. I don't know what country you are from and I don't care. You are a liberal coward who hides behind empty words and false trust. Whether everyone who is different is evil does not matter. If you invite enough strangers into your house, one of them is bound to eventually rob or kill you. But to continue letting them in after a previous incident? That's just ridiculous and idiotic.

Whereas you are a "brave conservative" who cowers in fear from the evil Muslims, thinking they will rob and kill you . . . 

 

You admitted you were German in a previous post.  Germans killed 42,000 Canadians during World War II - and yet even you, someone whose fellow countrymen killed far more people in Canada than Muslims killed in the US, were welcomed.  Now you will be required to do the same.  Don't like it?  Too bad, so sad; you reap what you sow.

[NotBrad]

fun fact of the day, My family has been out of that country for more than 400 years. My great great grandfather was a founding father of Canada, and we Canadians killed more Germans per soldier lost than every single other allied nation. We killed far more of them by far than they did us. My family was in this country before there was a Canada, and was directly involved in its conception(one of 36) so if anybody has any right to say anything about the state of my country it is me. Plus my ancestors include the Aboriginals as well, so my lineage is fundamentally Canadian. I am more Canadian than any of those immigrants will ever be, both biologically, historically, and culturally. I support their individualism and freedom of religion, but I will never willingly give up my land and my culture to those who do not want to share it with me. Which they do not, proven by the fact that they have built religious buildings on it and have signs out that are in a language I do not understand.If nothing else gets through I do not care, but believe me when I say this, THE ACT OF BUILDING STRUCTURES THAT ARE SOLELY FOR THE PURPOSE OF THEIR CULTURE ON OUR LAND IS A STATEMENT OF DECISIVE SEPARATION. If they are going to continue their religion fine, but if they do it in a way that makes it obvious that we are "outsiders" then they really don't want us there with them.

[pgrmdave]

I support their individualism and freedom of religion...they have built religious buildings on it and have signs out that are in a language I do not understand....THE ACT OF BUILDING STRUCTURES THAT ARE SOLELY FOR THE PURPOSE OF THEIR CULTURE ON OUR LAND [LAND THEY OWN] IS A STATEMENT OF DECISIVE SEPARATION. If they are going to continue their religion fine, but if they do it in a way that makes it obvious that we are "outsiders" then they really don't want us there with them.

I just can't wrap my head around the mental gymnastics you must be capable of to be so incredibly proficient at doublethink.