Is there nothing that doesn't exist?

[Guest kyle8921]

Ok, my friend Steve and I got into an arguement about God's existence. I said, "You can't think of a color that doesn't exist. You can think of new colors, but you only take already existing colors and mix them up. Therefore, it's impossible that ancient people thought of God without some supernatural cause."

 

He was stumped. But then, he said:

 

"Well, the wheel didn't exist before people thought of it, therefore you can think of things that don't exist."

 

Guess who was stumped this time? :rant:

 

So then I startead to think, maybe everything exists all the time? Do things exist before they are "invented?" I mean, maybe something doesn't have to come into physical existence to actually "exist?"

 

Do I sound really stupid, or does it make any sense? :shrug:

[Qfwfq]

So then I startead to think, maybe everything exists all the time? Do things exist before they are "invented?" I mean, maybe something doesn't have to come into physical existence to actually "exist?"

Ideas are things that exist, in a sense, as ideas. A wheel may or may not exist physically, but the principle that a vehicle with wheels is more easily driven along the path is true regardless.

 

Is there such a thing as an isosceles triangle? Have you ever seen one? Or even a point or a straight line? Does SU(2, C) exist? They don't "exist" physically, they are only mathematical objects.

[Guest kyle8921]

It all really started when I said that he can't think of an animal that doesn't exist, because he would only be taking parts of animals that he's seen and combine them.

 

I still don't know what to say to him. I guess people could have just made up the thought of God, with or without supernatural intervention.

 

The number "4" might not physically exist, but it does exist. So, just because God doesn't physically exist doesn't mean that he doesn't exist at all.

 

And you could draw an isoceles triangle, and it would then exist, right?

[sanctus]

Nice questions!

Yes, the idea of god exists also without physical existence, the idea of god would even exist if it were proven that he doesn't exist (what actually is impossible, one can't prove non-existence). Now the discussion is if the idea of god is god. I would say yes, as some greek philosopher said "everyone is the ruler of his/her universe", so if one wants to say in his universe his idea of god is god there is no reason he can't do that (but that doesn't prove his existence...for others)

[UncleAl]

A zero-curvature surface gaplessly tesselated with regular pentagons or heptagons does not exist.

Government without taxes does not exist.

Swim bladders at the bottom of the Mariana Trench do not exist - at least not in anything living.

[infamous]

There is really only one thing that does'nt exist and that one thing is NOTHING .

[Boerseun]

There might be neurons in Bush's skull, but there sure as hell ain't any synapses.

[Qfwfq]

And you could draw an isoceles triangle, and it would then exist, right?

Hmmm, no. Not physically. Any drawing that you make will never be an isosceles triangle, or even just a triangle. It will always be a drawing of one!

 

When I was at high school a classmate was once getting into an argument with a teacher over some matter of geometry. The teacher asked him if points exist and, when they guy answered yes, the teacher told him to bring a kilogramme of points next day. ;)

 

To a mathematician, they exist. But a mathematician doesn't say they exist physically.

[Queso]

There might be neurons in Bush's skull, but there sure as hell ain't any synapses.

:)

[learnin to learn]

When I was at high school a classmate was once getting into an argument with a teacher over some matter of geometry. The teacher asked him if points exist and, when they guy answered yes, the teacher told him to bring a kilogramme of points next day. :)

:) :xx: Thats genious! was the student like :)

[nkt]

Hmmm, no. Not physically. Any drawing that you make will never be an isosceles triangle, or even just a triangle. It will always be a drawing of one!

 

To a mathematician, they exist. But a mathematician doesn't say they exist physically.

Yet you can buy one at the shop, with the geometry supplies... It a plastic ruler thing, but it is *also* an isoceles triangle. I would also argue that the drawing of an isoceles triangle is a triangle, if it is seen from the usual perspective.

 

The points may or may not exist in reality, but all things that exist can be modelled by the maths. Not all things in maths map back to the real world.

[Qfwfq]

No, nkt, neither the ruler nor the drawing is a triangle as defined in geometry.

:xx: :) Thats genious! was the student like :hihi:

We all rocked in our seats laughing.

[majordinkydau]

It all really started when I said that he can't think of an animal that doesn't exist, because he would only be taking parts of animals that he's seen and combine them.

 

I still don't know what to say to him. I guess people could have just made up the thought of God, with or without supernatural intervention.

 

The number "4" might not physically exist, but it does exist. So, just because God doesn't physically exist doesn't mean that he doesn't exist at all.

 

And you could draw an isoceles triangle, and it would then exist, right?

 

What if you cross an elephant with a rinocerous? EllifIknow

[infamous]

The points may or may not exist in reality, but all things that exist can be modelled by the maths. Not all things in maths map back to the real world.

 

Very good point nkt a good example of this would be, the square root of a minus 1.

[nkt]

No, nkt, neither the ruler nor the drawing is a triangle as defined in geometry.

You will forgive me for not taking this one on trust... The bit of plastic has three and only three connected points on the same plane, forming a closed shape with three sides, with interior angles summing to 180 degrees. That, last I looked, was the definition of a triangle. :hihi:

[niviene]

Yet you can buy one at the shop, with the geometry supplies... It a plastic ruler thing, but it is *also* an isoceles triangle. I would also argue that the drawing of an isoceles triangle is a triangle, if it is seen from the usual perspective.

 

The points may or may not exist in reality, but all things that exist can be modelled by the maths. Not all things in maths map back to the real world.

 

No... they don't. You can never create a real, perfect triangle. It exists in it's perfect form only in the mind, as an ideal. This was one of the things Plato wrote about. We can only make representations of the ideal in the physical world.

[niviene]

There is really only one thing that does'nt exist and that one thing is NOTHING .

 

this is why I think the universe is infinite. :hihi: