Earths Absolute Velocity

[Tormod]

=) I say, what about the space that "space" grow into???

 

The definition of space extends to what is inside our universe. There is no "outside" of our universe. So space does not grow into anything.

[chatlack]

This is the point. There is no difference between space and outside. If we say "space" , there is many other "space" at all.

This is smilar to say in an island "it is the only island , there is nothing else"

[Little Bang]

Tormod I think your fighting a losing battle.

[Aki]

There's nothing outside of the universe. It's either space or nothingness.

[Jay-qu]

If there is nothing ourside our universe than how can it be shaped? you cant look from the ourside and say it is 'such and such' shaped... BTW we cant be talking about 3d shapes, right? more like hyper- shapes?

[Tormod]

This is the point. There is no difference between space and outside. If we say "space" , there is many other "space" at all.

This is smilar to say in an island "it is the only island , there is nothing else"

 

No, you are misinterpreting my post. Your island is in and ocean, but there is no ocean outside the ocean. The ocean has a limit. There can be more than one ocean, but they have the same properties.

 

Space is slightly different. A galaxy - in fact, everything in the universe - exists within spacetime. The only spacetime we know is the one inside our universe. The properties of spacetime are defined by very few things (read for example, the book "Just Six Numbers" by Sir Martin Rees).

 

As far as we know there is no space "outside" the universe. In fact, there is no sense in talking about the outside of the universe as the universe is the definition of everything. If there are other universes they will be different than ours. This is of course highly speculative and cannot be proven.

[Tormod]

If there is nothing ourside our universe than how can it be shaped? you cant look from the ourside and say it is 'such and such' shaped... BTW we cant be talking about 3d shapes, right? more like hyper- shapes?

 

This is a very good question - which I posed a page or two back. What is the universe shaped in relation to?

[Tormod]

Tormod I think your fighting a losing battle.

 

Which battle? What am I losing? ;)

[Little Bang]

Forget it, I guess you have to be a Texan to understand.

[Jay-qu]

there is no battle here, where all on the same side, just some of us have different opinions...

[coldcreation]

Forget it, I guess you have to be a Texan to understand.

 

I understand little bang. I used to live in San Antonio, Fort Sam Houston, and later in Houston, Montrose district. Cool. I new we would find some common ground.

 

Jay-qu. All this sound like intellectual taltari.

[maddog]

A lot of the earlier models for expansion of a BB just asumed a spherical one (it

made the math easier). With Guth's inflation theory and now the concept that

possibly hidden dimensions lurk in superstring theory. This hidden assumption

is no longer made (need to be much more cautious).

 

As to answer Jay-qu question as to how could the space be spherical if there is no

outside can be answered a number of ways. First, a notion coined by John Archibald

Wheeler of University of Texas called the Multiverse which could be thought of as a

container for all the universes that exist. The many worlds theory by Everett has

these all be copies of the same one, each taking a different causal branch. Wheeler

himself didn't make this requirement. Second another way to think about the "space"

we exist in is to consider how curved is it. A closed universe can be thought as a

4-dimensional hypersphere (any direction carries you back to where you started).

Eucldiian space is flat in all directions and has a curvature of 1.0 while a closed

universe is greater than 1.0. A hyperbolic universe (saddle shaped) would be

when the radius of curvature is less than 1.0. It is Einstein's GR that explains

which way to go by the density of the universe. Evidence now suggests (from

WMAP observer) that the universe is somewhat saddle shaped and accelerating

its expansion. This has modified and somewhat vindicated Guth's inflation

Theory. I recomend anyone who wishes to know more to read Brian Greene's

new book, "Fabric of the Cosmos". I have found it fascinating! I am just now

getting to the String Theories.

 

As to the topic of this thread: "Nothing Absolute", except for Absolutely nothing. ;-)

 

maddog

[lindagarrette]

Maybe the Universe is funnel shaped.

 

http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/9999/99994879F1.JPG

[Jay-qu]

i dont now how anyone could possibly find irrefutable evidence of the universes shape - at least from inside it... because it doest seem to make all that much of a difference, unless you could fly at superliminal speeds and traverse the universe to find yourself back in the same spot - but then it only proves that in that one direction it curves back on itself...

[chatlack]

;) I cant tell what I mean because of my non-improved english. ;)

 

I will reply this after working on a paragraph. ;)

[pgrmdave]

i dont now how anyone could possibly find irrefutable evidence of the universes shape - at least from inside it

 

I believe that we are able to test the universe's shape in much the same way we were able to show that the earth was spherical before we could actually see it. We measure how curved the universe seems to be, and base our idea of its shape off of that.

[bumab]

This is a very good question - which I posed a page or two back. What is the universe shaped in relation to?

 

Great question, but things can be shaped relative to themselves. Sphere's are always eqidistant from their center, squares have perpendicular sides...

 

I'm not sure there's any new difficulties in the whole higher dimension arena, but I can't imagine any...