The Soul

[fahrquad]

The human mind cannot accept the fact that life is finite and created the concept of a "soul" that transcends the end of physical existence.  Try as it might, science has never been able to prove or disprove the existence of a soul any more than it has proven or disproven the existence of a supreme deity.  As I may have mentioned previously, I died twice a few years ago and I remember nothing except slipping into inky black silence until being rudely jolted back to life.

[MikeBrace]

The human mind cannot accept the fact that life is finite and created the concept of a "soul" that transcends the end of physical existence.  Try as it might, science has never been able to prove or disprove the existence of a soul any more than it has proven or disproven the existence of a supreme deity.  As I may have mentioned previously, I died twice a few years ago and I remember nothing except slipping into inky black silence until being rudely jolted back to life.

 

I think that most 'human minds' have accepted the fact that life is finite, so I'm not buying your concept that we created a 'soul' to transcend the end of our physical existence. Even you yourself 'died' twice [and yet] your consciousness did not. Even if you slipped into 'an inky black silence' it was [still] a state of existence that you recognized as a physical state of existence and could describe. And your conscious returned twice, so 'something' about you continued to exist after your body was not capable of harboring it. And when it was [again]. it came back.

 

I will 'agree' in part with you that religion tried to define the soul to its own benefit, but that has gotten it nowhere; especially when it tried to define its existence as 'eternal'. But that's not the definition of a soul in the first place. What most people consider to be the 'soul' is really just your consciousness.

 

The spark of life in you, your life force, is just your consciousness (you) collaborating with organic cells (also made up of matter and energy) on a very large scale in order to survive in a place where everything eats everything else just to stay alive. It’s who you see when you look in the mirror. Most, if not all living organisms [that do not belong to a collective] have a life force. We humans call it our consciousness. But that is not a soul.

 

Think of your consciousness as an elephant. It does what it does to stay alive, experience pleasure and avoid pain/death. Think of your soul (if you have one...and not everybody has one) as the rider on that elephant. For the most part it controls the elephant in an attempt to do its bidding. And as I stated above, for the most part the only thing your soul wants to do is treat others as it wishes to be treated itself. And so it steers the elephant accordingly. It cannot physically force the elephant to go where it wants it to, or do as it wishes it to; it can only try to influence it. And, as I said early, the soul's unique trait is that of compassion. It will always try to make the elephant make a compassionate decision when so confronted. Whether or not your consciousness listens to it is up to the owner of the soul.

[Vmedvil2]

There are no Supreme Deities, There are no souls, this all religious nonsense. People wish for the universe to be a caring place, but it reality there is nothing that suggests that this universe favors good deeds over bad ones that is all in the eye of humanity that decides such things. If there was actually a supreme deity that favored good deeds over bad ones you would think not so many bad ones would happen, this makes me suggest that a soul is a fiction too. Without a supreme deity that cares about souls there is no soul either, it stands to reason there are mental constructs of electrical energy that is stored within neurons but the pattern to such a system disappears as soon as the neurons stop firing, if the neurons undergo necrosis that pattern vanishes forever unless the data of such a pattern in stored in another media, so in that sense a soul does exist but in the way that religious writings suggest it does is utter nonsense. To the point of this, if a supreme deity does exist he is just a alien with more advanced technology but the religious will argue up and down that "God" is not a alien, but does this make him a "Supreme being", No because he is just a more technologically advanced or evolved alien creature. For Instance, if I took a Jet Airplane or Laser Pointer back to the Roman Era they would think I was "God" or At-least a "Sorcerer". So, how is making a copy of someone's Neuron Patterns any different than being "God" which happens on a daily basis in the modern era, there is no soul just a advanced technology at work, these things that were saw as "acts of God" in previous time periods are things that happen on a daily basis in the modern era without even a consideration that "God" may be responsible and this species will get even more advanced than this over how ever long it is we survive to feats of even surpassing what our ancestors thought was "God-like". Jesus May have healed the Blind, but so has science, why would you put any stock into what ancient people's thought about this universe?, Throw away your belief in "False Gods" and start to believe in yourself and humanity, This goes along with the "Soul" stop believing in "false magic" and believe in technology and advancement.

Edited August 2, 2019 by VictorMedvil

[fahrquad]

...Peace might be what is left when you are dead. Meditation and emptying ones mind as fahrquad did until he got a shock, becoming one with the universe :) . 

 

My mind is empty most of the time as many here can attest.

[MikeBrace]

There are no Supreme Deities, There are no souls, this all religious nonsense.

 

It is important that you separate the religion from the definition. Your physical consciousness is the basic operating system that controls the living entity in order to meet its basic survival needs. That is your 'elephant'. It has nothing to do with religion.

 

Not all living entities require a consciousness (an 'elephant') to properly operate themselves, but most higher, more evolved forms of life do have them. I think that most autonomous forms of life need one in order to survive. However, history has shown us countless number of examples there the physical consciousness can be influenced and modified beyond its basic needs; that is done by a spiritual consciousness; as soul. If you have such a consciousness present, that is your soul.

 

While religion has laid claim to this spiritual consciousness, it is a fallacy to think it defines it. Religion is a crutch developed by man to understand what they cannot comprehend. I maintain the spiritual consciousness (the soul) has nothing to do with religion, just as religion has nothing to do with reality.

 

The spiritual consciousness that controls your physical consciousness is what you know as a soul. A soul is an advanced operating system independent from your physical consciousness. You don't need a soul to survive, and [contrary to most forms of organized religion] not everyone has one.

 

If your religion dictates otherwise I’ll leave that discussion between you and to whomever you pray; this discussion only talks of the soul, not of religion.

[MikeBrace]

It’s important that you understand word for word how I defined compassion for it is at the heart the definition of a 'soul'. Compassion defines the soul and is unique to the soul.

 

Compassion is not the same as 'sympathy' or 'empathy'. Those are just emotions. Compassion requires a physical act. Remember how I said the soul controls the consciousness?

 

 

Here is a good definition of compassion:

 

Compassion (noun):

 

The investment and/or expenditure of a personal asset on behalf of another living being, knowing that there exists a high probability that there will be an immediate negative rate of return on the investment, but cognizant of the fact that the recipient(s) of this expenditure may benefit in a positive manner from this expenditure.

 

 

 

 

Act of compassion (verb):

 

Showing or exhibiting compassion.

 

As far as who (or what) can have a soul, it's simple: it is a living creature with a conscious that can willingly and physically helping another living creature by freely giving away it's time, physical help and/or wealth knowing that in all likelihood this recipient of this act cannot immediately pay it back, and that in many cases (and in all likelihood) this creature risks losing more than just it's initial investment. However, the act of compassion is often used in the hope that the recipient will use your giving’s wisely for the betterment of themselves, others and/or this planet.

 

Back to your question; what can own a soul.

 

The single largest determining factor whether or not any physical being (with a conscious) would/could be occupied with a soul is if a physical entity has the ability to make a compassionate act on behalf of another physical entity. If that’s the case then it can in all likelihood be occupied by a soul. I have now come to understand why a living organism may or may not ever harbor a soul, but also why not all of them would ever harbor a soul in the first place. And while a dog would definitely qualify for ‘owning’ one, a lizard or chicken probably wouldn’t.

 

 

[Vmedvil2]

It’s important that you understand word for word how I defined compassion for it is at the heart the definition of a 'soul'. Compassion defines the soul and is unique to the soul.

 

Compassion is not the same as 'sympathy' or 'empathy'. Those are just emotions. Compassion requires a physical act. Remember how I said the soul controls the consciousness?

 

 

Here is a good definition of compassion:

 

Compassion (noun):

 

The investment and/or expenditure of a personal asset on behalf of another living being, knowing that there exists a high probability that there will be an immediate negative rate of return on the investment, but cognizant of the fact that the recipient(s) of this expenditure may benefit in a positive manner from this expenditure.

 

 

 

 

Act of compassion (verb):

 

Showing or exhibiting compassion.

 

As far as who (or what) can have a soul, it's simple: it is a living creature with a conscious that can willingly and physically helping another living creature by freely giving away it's time, physical help and/or wealth knowing that in all likelihood this recipient of this act cannot immediately pay it back, and that in many cases (and in all likelihood) this creature risks losing more than just it's initial investment. However, the act of compassion is often used in the hope that the recipient will use your giving’s wisely for the betterment of themselves, others and/or this planet.

 

Back to your question; what can own a soul.

 

The single largest determining factor whether or not any physical being (with a conscious) would/could be occupied with a soul is if a physical entity has the ability to make a compassionate act on behalf of another physical entity. If that’s the case then it can in all likelihood be occupied by a soul. I have now come to understand why a living organism may or may not ever harbor a soul, but also why not all of them would ever harbor a soul in the first place. And while a dog would definitely qualify for ‘owning’ one, a lizard or chicken probably wouldn’t.

 

 

 

This is a silly definition whether not you can do compassionate acts is having a soul that is metaphysical nonsense, which is even dumber than what the religious believe a soul is.

Edited August 6, 2019 by VictorMedvil

[MikeBrace]

This is a silly definition whether not you can do compassionate acts is having a soul that is metaphysical nonsense, which is even dumber than what the religious believe a soul is.

 

Then I take it you believe no one has a soul?

[Vmedvil2]

Then I take it you believe no one has a soul?

 

Yes basically, I think the soul is metaphysical nonsense too.

[MikeBrace]

Yes basically, I think the soul is metaphysical nonsense too.

 

Not to be rude, but I have to ask; why are you on this forum [in the first place]?

[MikeBrace]

The concept of soul is something from religion that can be punished.

 

Metaphysics philosophical speculations beyond known physical laws.

 

It is possible that all things are connected to a certain extent. (Entropic gravity for example).

 

You're barking up the wrong tree in sentence one. As I stated, the soul has nothing to do with religion. I can't help it if they highjacked the one part of you that makes you unique (if you have one). And it's explanations are not beyond known physical laws...just as your emotions are not.

And it is possible that they are connected, but I haven't gone there yet.

 

And, as I asked VictorMedvil, why are you on this forum?

[Vmedvil2]

Not to be rude, but I have to ask; why are you on this forum [in the first place]?

Well basically I am on this forum because it is cheaper than publishing works in journals basically it is free hosting of my stuff, rather than paying a journal thousands of dollars I host it here. It is the much cheaper option to write it on this forum in such a way that people view it as forum posts. I think that paying a journal like 50 grand to 80 grand is horseshit to host my scientific works. Basically, it say if I wrote all this stuff in the form of papers then it could be hosted in journals but I would rather do it this way for now, plus the journal would paywall the journals where as on this forum there is no paywall. Those Journal companies won't get a dime from me. One day I just got sick of my stuff being peer viewed and accepted then people wanting $1900 to publish it you know. I don't need the damn stuff peer viewed I know it works and I am not paying them $1900 per article when I still get the same effect from posting it on this forum. So, the dumbed down version gets hosted here, meaning the same researchers and people view more works here, every once in awhile I will literally link my post on this forum to a place like NASA or where ever, like I did for Fusion powered spacecraft then it was on the news.

Edited August 6, 2019 by VictorMedvil

[Thoth101]

The soul such an intricate but simple concept. Well if you were to study near death experiences it for sure is realistic to think once your body dies your consciousness leaves the body and moves on. And I think even some Quantum Physicist are finding some information on it as well. I am not sure soul and consciousness can be classified as the same thing. Could it be there is an over soul where the higher self is, in which a piece of the consciousness comes down to the 3rd dimensional Earth to experience and learn and have an ego? If past, present and future all at once it maybe be parts of our consciousness can be in many dimensions and timelines all at once. But we are only focused on this one right here and now.

 

I do think we are multi-dimensional beings in which it is our consciousness which comes down into the human body and once the human body dies our consciousness goes into another dimension to reflect what you have learned in this incarnation. Did you learn what you came here to learn? Must you try again or can you move on into another experience? That is just a basic understanding of my thoughts on the matter. All just hypothedical though because none of this can really be proved besides near death experiences and when entities are channeled and conversed with.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Thoth101

[Thoth101]

Well basically I am on this forum because it is cheaper than publishing works in journals basically it is free hosting of my stuff, rather than paying a journal thousands of dollars I host it here. It is the much cheaper option to write it on this forum in such a way that people view it as forum posts. I think that paying a journal like 50 grand to 80 grand is horseshit to host my scientific works. Basically, it say if I wrote all this stuff in the form of papers then it could be hosted in journals but I would rather do it this way for now, plus the journal would paywall the journals where as on this forum there is no paywall. Those Journal companies won't get a dime from me. One day I just got sick of my stuff being peer viewed and accepted then people wanting $1900 to publish it you know. I don't need the damn stuff peer viewed I know it works and I am not paying them $1900 per article when I still get the same effect from posting it on this forum. So, the dumbed down version gets hosted here, meaning the same researchers and people view more works here, every once in awhile I will literally link my post on this forum to a place like NASA or where ever, like I did for Fusion powered spacecraft then it was on the news.

 

I like the idea of the "Fusion powered spacecraft." Do you have the link on that?

[Thoth101]

The concept of soul is something from religion that can be punished.

 

Metaphysics philosophical speculations beyond known physical laws. 

 

 

 

 

It is possible that all things are connected to a certain extent. (Entropic gravity for example).

 

Whats views do the few remaining people on this forum have on entanglement http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170215-the-strange-link-between-the-human-mind-and-quantum-physics .  ??

 

There is all sorts of Philosophical waffle Metaphysics (word salad) when you look into entanglement this link waffles then discounts any possibility http://www.askphilosophers.org/question/25652

 

I like to ask certain religions if the soul can be burned why can't angels be burned? :evil:  :hihi:

Also if soul is energy how can energy be burned?

 

If all our consciousness came from one single point at one time I would think we are all still connected in some way. A good example I think is think of the ocean as consciousness and we are the droplets of the ocean. Don't all the droplets of the ocean make a single ocean? All the droplets are connected to make the ocean. Some droplets leave the ocean and land on land but sooner or later the sun takes the droplets up and is returned to the ocean. Does that make sense?

[Thoth101]

You are not Zen then :)

Theravada Buddhist perhaps?  

 

I am not part of any religion. I enjoy studying them. I just go by what I learn and I am always trying to grow and evolve in my thinking. That is where I am at right now and as I learn I may find something different in the future.

 

You kind of reminded me of the Bush song everything Zen from the 90's.lol!

Edited February 8, 2020 by Thoth101

[Thoth101]

 

Everything Zen

Bush

There must be something we can eat

Maybe find another lover

Should I fly to Los Angeles

Find my ******* brother

Mickey mouse has grown up a cow

Dave's on sale again

We kissy kiss in the rear view

We're so bored, you're to blame

Try to see it once my way

Everything zen, everything zen

I don't think so

Everything zen, everything zen

I don't think so

Raindogs howl for the century

A million dollars at stake

As you search for your demigod

And you fake with a saint

There's no sex in your violence

There's no sex in your violence

There's no sex in your violence

There's no sex in your violence

Try to see it once my way

Everything zen, everything zen

I don't think so

Everything zen, everything zen

I don't think so

Everything zen, everything zen

I don't believe that Elvis…

 

I am not quite sure how you think that is related to me. 

 

You said to me "your not Zen then" in post 78. Hearing that just made me think of the Bush song. I grew up in the 90's so every time I hear the word Zen that is what I think of.lol!

Edited February 14, 2020 by Thoth101