Superintelligent Extraterrestrial Life, Accelerated Evolution, And The Fate Of The Universe

[Super Polymath]

I didn't quote you directly, CraigD, but in the last few posts I've responded to everything you've brought up in your latest and quite informative reply. With the exception of a couple points:

 

 

I think you’re failing to appreciate how weird FTL signaling, which could (and given the technological advantages of doing so, I find it hard to imagine anyone could resist doing so) violate causality, would be. I tried to impress this on everyone in this post.

In short, if you can use tachyons in computing, you can have an effectively infinitely fast computer. It becomes, then, pretty unimportant what you make them out of – even if they were made of Babbage-engine-esque brass gears, they’d still be effectively infinitely fast.

 

It might only generate/harness such particles for very specific purposes, given their cost. Such as remote networking with femptotech in this galaxy sent from another galaxy.

 

 

No, the Big Bang cannot be the ignition of a fusion reactor, because it resulted in the creation of mostly the lightest element, hydrogen (1 proton), and smaller amounts of slightly heavier elements helium (2 protons) and lithium (3 protons) while a fusion reactor requires light elements, such as hydrogen, and fuses them into heavier ones, usually helium. Stars are fusion reactors, and they didn’t form until about 150,000,000 years after the Big Bang.

 

Let's not take my metaphorical musings of a Type V civilization to heart, lol. I mean, if you exist in multiple timelines and are made up of objects that are surrounding and collecting energy from more stars than there are quarks and gluons in the universe, who knows what you might do. Especially considering 96% of the universe is composed of particles that might do things you couldn't imagine, and that these infomorphs have particle accelerators advanced and large enough to generate and utilize them. 

 

In any case the cosmos as a construct is a place where more infomorphs can be added to a transtemporal thought-engine that is virtually infinite in scale. Such artificial realities can defy causality without defying causality. I call it the omega (or alpha?) dyson sphere, because an infinite collective intelligence composed of infovoric omega point technologies existing in multiple timelines could be perceived as spherical from a super position. I mean, it's metaphorical synapses are a collection of isolated ftl signals between infomorphic entities. To be completely stoic, my idea is not unlike an ethereal spectre that posses all of the material world that acts on its behalf, even less advanced ethereal spectres (Type II-IV civilizations). And an excellent and very novel sci-fy theme. 

 

However, I maintain that this shouldn't be anymore in the strange claims forum than should the possibility of a SETI search for the presence of hyperminiaturized alien technologies right on our front door or Dyson Spheres that existed a long time ago, in a galaxy far away, or the notion of us building space elevators, artificial intelligence, or alcubierre (aka warp) drives, the search for tachyons. Research for such technology is taken as possible even though it's a long way's away. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Super Polymath

[CraigD]

I’m eager to get back to this extropian thread, the only recently at hypography. I though after reading Accelerando (anyone with extropian leanings who hasn’t read this novel, read it now!) more than a decade ago that by now the internet would be abuzz with such discussion, but that didn’t happen. A web search for discussions mentioning it finds only a handful, many of them by me here at hypography. :(

 

Maybe book reviewer Thomas Wagner had a better sense than I of how popular optimistic talk about the future of our civilization would be when he wrote in this 2005 review “...the Singularity, dude? Come on. That is so five years ago”.

 

I think you’re failing to appreciate how weird FTL signaling, which could (and given the technological advantages of doing so, I find it hard to imagine anyone could resist doing so) violate causality, would be. I tried to impress this on everyone in this post.

 

In short, if you can use tachyons in computing, you can have an effectively infinitely fast computer. It becomes, then, pretty unimportant what you make them out of – even if they were made of Babbage-engine-esque brass gears, they’d still be effectively infinitely fast.

It might only generate/harness such particles for very specific purposes, given their cost. Such as remote networking with femptotech in this galaxy sent from another galaxy.

I find it hard to imagine that, if tachyons existed, and a technology able to use them, that people wouldn’t use them as I’ve described to have effectively infinitely fast computers.

 

Causality violation is so disturbingly weird that I can imagine a civilization with the ability to do it choosing, by way of a strict ban, not to. Such bans are a staple of science fiction, constituting the heart of an entire genre, in which “time cops” hunt down villains seeking to change their present by changing the past, so all one needs to imagine them is to pay attention to books, movies, videos and TV shows, not even have an original idea. The infinitely fast computers I describe could be made to avoid the kinds of causality violations feared by such civilizations (eg: traveling back in time and killing the hero’s mother before they are born), sending back in time only information used to compute results that could be computed in an arbitrarily short time by an arbitrarily fast computer. The system used to do this would likely be large and require a lot of power, so easier for the ban-imposing government to secure and control than something small and cheap. So the effective causality violation ban would just require a strong cyber security agency.

 

I think some grounding in science is needed here. At the heart of causality violation is faster-than-light signaling. A particle that travels faster than light, known as a tachyon, is one way FTL signaling could be done (other schemes involve exploiting subtle quantum mechanical effects, but appear to me to be much, perhaps prohibitively, more difficulty). The best current scientific theory and evidence strongly suggest this is impossible.

 

Some physicist, like Robert Ehrlich in this paper, have suggested that the well-known (but difficult to detect) neutrino is a tachyon. Though I pretty sure, for many reasons, that he’s wrong, Ehrlich made predictions that can be tested with data from the KATRIN beta decay spectrometer, which is expected to begin producing non-test data in 2017, so we won’t have to wait long to know.

 

If I’ve given the impression that causality violation using FTL signaling would be easy, provided tachyons exist and can be readily and in a controlled way emitted and detected, let me correct that misimpression. The key working part of such a system is a device (“Carol” in the excellent old Sharp Blue webpage referenced earlier) with a different velocity than the distant receiver of the message (“Bob”). The amount of time the system sends the signal into the past is [math]t_2[/math], where

[math]\lambda = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1 - \left( \frac{v}{c} \right)^2}}[/math]

[math]t_1 = \frac{x_1}{v_s}[/math]

[math]x'_1 = \lambda \left( x_1 -v t_1 \right)[/math], [math]t'_1 = \lambda \left( t_1 -\frac{v x_1}{c^2} \right)[/math]

[math]D = \frac{v_s+c}{-v} v t'_1 +x'_1[/math]

[math]x'_2 = x'_1 -D[/math], [math]t'_2 = x'_1 +\frac{D}{v_s}[/math]

[math]t_2 = \lambda \left( t'_2 +\frac{v x'_2}{c^2} \right)[/math]

[math]v[/math] is the speed of Carol and Dave relative to Alice and Bob,

[math]v_s[/math] is the speed of the signal, and

[math]x_1[/math] is the distance between Alice and Bob.

 

All of this is a straightforward application of the Lorentz transformation. If you happen to have an implementation of the MUMPS computer language, such as the free one available here, you can use the following little program to perform this calculation for whatever [math]v[/math] and [math]v_s[/math] you enter

f  r "v=",v,"  vs=",vs,! s L=v**2*-1+1**-.5,x1=1,t1=1/vs,xp1=t1*-v+x1*L,tp1=x1*-v+t1*L,D=v*tp1+xp1/(-v/vs+1),tp2=D/vs+tp1,xp2=xp1-D,t2=xp2*v+tp2*L w "event",?18,"t",?33,"x",?48,"t'",?65,"x'",!,"A sends",?18,0,?33,0,?48,0,?65,0,!,"B & C get & send",?18,$e(+$j(t1,0,14),1,14),?33,$e(+$j(x1,0,14),1,14),?48,$e(+$j(tp1,0,14),1,14),?65,$e(+$j(xp1,0,14),1,14),!,"D & A send & get",?18,$e(+$j(t2,0,14),1,14),?33,0,?48,$e(+$j(tp2,0,14),1,14),?65,$e(+$j(xp2,0,14),1,14),!!

Some interesting results of this calculation:

• when [math]v_s = \infty[/math], [math]t_2 = \frac{v x_1}{c^2} [/math].

  For example, if [math]x_1[/math] is 1 lightyear and [math]v[/math] is 0.5 c, Alice receives her message 0.5 years before she sends it.

• for a signal to travel into the past at all, [math]v_s[/math] must exceed a minimum determined by [math]v[/math]. I’ve not done the algebra to find this function, but for small [math]v[/math]s, it’s about [math]v_s > \frac{2 c}{v}[/math], and as v approaches c, [math]v_s > \frac{c}{v}[/math].

  For example, if [math]v[/math] is 0.1 c, [math]v_s [/math]must be greater that about 20 c, if [math]v[/math] is 0.999999 c, [math]v_s[/math] need only be greater than about 1.001415 c.

• A causality violating system involving distances and velocities on a scale of present day physics experiments could send signals a noticeable time into the past.

  For example, for a [math]v[/math] of 0.999 c, a [math]x_1[/math] of 731 km, and a [math]v_s[/math] of 1.1 c, [math]t_2[/math] would be about -0.0017 seconds.

However, I maintain that this shouldn't be anymore in the strange claims forum than should the possibility of a SETI search for the presence of hyperminiaturized alien technologies right on our front door

It’s not the subject matter of a thread like this that gets it moved to the strange claims forum, but the lack of links and references backing up the claims made in it. If you want you threads not be put in strange claims, you must follow our number 1 site rule to back up your claims with links or references (links preferred, ‘cause this is the internet, not a printed paper)

 

I’ve tried to help out by giving supporting links to some of the ideas in this thread, but have only addressed a few of them. Finding and linking to information, especially on subjects like super-intelligent ETs, can be a lot of work - I imagine it takes me a lot longer to write my posts than it does you, Super Polymath. Unless you’re willing to do this extra work, you won’t be able to discuss them in hypography’s non-strange claims forums, and readers are much less likely to take them seriously.

Edited January 11, 2017 by CraigD
fixed math mistake in example

[Maine farmer]

Causality violation is so disturbingly weird that I can imagine a civilization with the ability to do it choosing, by way of a strict ban, not to. Such bans are a staple of science fiction, constituting the heart of an entire genre, in which “time cops” hunt down villains seeking to change their present by changing the past, so all one needs to imagine them is to pay attention to books, movies, videos and TV shows, not even have an original idea. The infinitely fast computers I describe could be made to avoid the kinds of causality violations feared by such civilizations (eg: traveling back in time and killing the hero’s mother before they are born), sending back in time only information used to compute results that could be computed in an arbitrarily short time by an arbitrarily fast computer. The system used to do this would likely be large and require a lot of power, so easier for the ban-imposing government to secure and control than something small and cheap. So the effective causality violation ban would just require a strong cyber security agency.

 

I think some grounding in science is needed here. At the heart of causality violation is faster-than-light signaling. A particle that travels faster than light, known as a tachyon, is one way FTL signaling could be done (other schemes involve exploiting subtle quantum mechanical effects, but appear to me to be much, perhaps prohibitively, more difficulty). The best current scientific theory and evidence strongly suggest this is impossible.

 

Some physicist, like Robert Ehrlich in this paper, have suggested that the well-known (but difficult to detect) neutrino is a tachyon. Though I pretty sure, for many reasons, that he’s wrong, Ehrlich made predictions that can be tested with data from the KATRIN beta decay spectrometer, which is expected to begin producing non-test data in 2017, so we won’t have to wait long to know.

 

If I’ve given the impression that causality violation using FTL signaling would be easy, provided tachyons exist and can be readily and in a controlled way emitted and detected, let me correct that misimpression. The key working part of such a system is a device (“Carol” in the excellent old Sharp Blue webpage referenced earlier) with a different velocity than the distant receiver of the message (“Bob”). The amount of time the system sends the signal into the past is [math]t_2[/math], where

[math]\lambda = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1 - \left( \frac{v}{c} \right)}}[/math]

[math]t_1 = \frac{x_1}{v_s}[/math]

[math]x'_1 = \lambda \left( x_1 -v t_1 \right)[/math], [math]t'_1 = \lambda \left( t_1 -\frac{v x_1}{c^2} \right)[/math]

[math]D = \frac{v_s+c}{-v} v t'_1 +x'_1[/math]

[math]x'_2 = x'_1 -D[/math], [math]t'_2 = x'_1 +\frac{D}{v_s}[/math]

[math]t_2 = \lambda \left( t'_2 +\frac{v x'_2}{c^2} \right)[/math]

[math]v[/math] is the speed of Carol and Dave relative to Alice and Bob,

[math]v_s[/math] is the speed of the signal, and

[math]x_1[/math] is the distance between Alice and Bob.

 

All of this is a straightforward application of the Lorentz transformation. If you happen to have an implementation of the MUMPS computer language, such as the free one available here, you can use the following little program to perform this calculation for whatever [math]v[/math] and [math]v_s[/math] you enter

f  r "v=",v,"  vs=",vs,! s L=v**2*-1+1**-.5,x1=1,t1=1/vs,xp1=t1*-v+x1*L,tp1=x1*-v+t1*L,D=v*tp1+xp1/(-v/vs+1),tp2=D/vs+tp1,xp2=xp1-D,t2=xp2*v+tp2*L w "event",?18,"t",?33,"x",?48,"t'",?65,"x'",!,"A sends",?18,0,?33,0,?48,0,?65,0,!,"B & C get & send",?18,$e(+$j(t1,0,14),1,14),?33,$e(+$j(x1,0,14),1,14),?48,$e(+$j(tp1,0,14),1,14),?65,$e(+$j(xp1,0,14),1,14),!,"D & A send & get",?18,$e(+$j(t2,0,14),1,14),?33,0,?48,$e(+$j(tp2,0,14),1,14),?65,$e(+$j(xp2,0,14),1,14),!!

Some interesting results of this calculation:

• when [math]v_s = \infty[/math], [math]t_2 = \frac{v x_1}{c^2} [/math].

  For example, if [math]x_1[/math] is 1 lightyear and [math]v[/math] is 0.5 c, Alice receives her message 0.5 years before she sends it.

• for a signal to travel into the past at all, [math]v_s[/math] must exceed a minimum determined by [math]v[/math]. I’ve not done the algebra to find this function, but for small [math]v[/math]s, it’s about [math]v_s > \frac{2 c}{v}[/math], and as v approaches c, [math]v_s > \frac{c}{v}[/math].

  For example, if [math]v[/math] is 0.1 c, [math]v_s [/math]must be greater that about 20 c, if [math]v[/math] is 0.999999 c, [math]v_s[/math] need only be greater than about 1.001415 c.

• A causality violating system involving distances and velocities on a scale of present day physics experiments could send signals a noticeable time into the past.

  For example, for a [math]v[/math] of 0.999 c, a [math]x_1[/math] of 731 km, and a [math]v_s[/math] of 1.1 c, [math]t_2[/math] would be about -51 seconds.

 

The problem I have with the concept of causality violation is that in spite of the calculations, I can't see how it can actually be possible.  Take the so - called "twin paradox"  for example.  The one twin that travels at the speed of light wouldn't age, but the twin that stays home does age.  The effects of time dilation effect only the moving twin.  The same for the tachyon that experiences the -51 seconds.  The time would be negative for the tachyon, but not effect the rest of the universe, would it?  

 

I remain convinced that negative time in a calculation does not equate to time travel.  I suspect that if you could somehow build a vehicle that can surpass the speed of light, all that would do to the occupants of the vehicle is have them experience perhaps a reversal of the laws of physics, say gravity becoming a repulsive force instead of attractive, but who knows?

[A-wal]

The problem I have with the concept of causality violation is that in spite of the calculations, I can't see how it can actually be possible.  Take the so - called "twin paradox"  for example.  The one twin that travels at the speed of light wouldn't age, but the twin that stays home does age.  The effects of time dilation effect only the moving twin.

It's not moving that causes less time to elapse on one twin's watch (that's proper time). Each twin is stationary in their one frame of reference with the other twin in motion (this is Galilean relativity) so each will be time dilated (that's coordinate time) and length contracted from the others perspective (that's special relativity).

 

The one that accelerates will be the one who experience less proper time and so will be the younger one once they're bacj in the same frame of reference.

 

The same for the tachyon that experiences the -51 seconds.  The time would be negative for the tachyon, but not effect the rest of the universe, would it?

I theory tachyons are moving through time in reverse, allowing for instantaneous communication even after their journey time is taken into account.

 

I remain convinced that negative time in a calculation does not equate to time travel.  I suspect that if you could somehow build a vehicle that can surpass the speed of light, all that would do to the occupants of the vehicle is have them experience perhaps a reversal of the laws of physics, say gravity becoming a repulsive force instead of attractive, but who knows?

It would require infinite energy for any massive object to even reach the speed of light because of time dilation and length contraction, although you can move between any two points at any speed you like from your own perspective in your starting reference frame (but you'll of course be moving under the speed of from the perspective of an observer in your starting frame) because time dilation and length contraction shorten the distance in time and space whenever you accelerate.

 

Gravity is always an attractive force, even if you reverse the arrow of time. This disproves the notion that any object could ever reach the event horizon of a black hole (one of many reasons) but physicists don't seem to care.

[fahrquad]

Getting back to the original topic, since we seem to have gone off on every possible tangent, I doubt super-intelligent extraterrestrial life exists, since intelligent life certainly does not exist here.  Have you seen the supermarket tabloids or daytime television?

[CraigD]

The problem I have with the concept of causality violation is that in spite of the calculations, I can't see how it can actually be possible.

It isn’t, unless we assume that something that can travel faster than the speed of light – tachyons - exist. My mention of Robert Ehrlich’s “neutrinos are tachyons” hypothesis notwithstanding, there’s no scientific evidence tachyons exist, and many strong theoretical arguments that the cannot.

 

What I did above is add some math expanding on Richard Baker’s 2003 “Relativity, FTL, and causality” webpage, which was all text and graphics. I’ve wanted to do this – be able to put precise numbers to Baker’s excellent explanations – for a few years, and finally took the time to do it, and answer some nagging question I had about it in the process.

 

But it’s unlikely tachyons exist or will ever exists, so all this is just “what it” speculation.

 

Take the so - called "twin paradox" for example. The one twin that travels at the speed of light wouldn't age, but the twin that stays home does age. The effects of time dilation effect only the moving twin. The same for the tachyon that experiences the -51 seconds. The time would be negative for the tachyon, but not effect the rest of the universe, would it?

Special Relativity give a nonsensical result for time dilation for an inertial speed. The formula

[math]\frac{t'}{t} = \sqrt{ 1- \left( \frac{v}{c} \right)^2}[/math]

give not a not a negative, but an imaginary number (containing a factor of [math]\sqrt{-1}[/math]) if v > c.

 

The physical significance, if any, of this number is what leads many to theorize that tachyons are impossible.

 

It leads some physicists, like Ehrlich, to speculate that some real particle, in Ehrlich’s case the neutrino, has an imaginary mass. Because 2 imaginary numbers multiplied together give a negative number, this allows the hypothetical particle to have a real speed.

 

I remain convinced that negative time in a calculation does not equate to time travel.

It’s important to understand that [math]t_2[/math] is an actual instant in time, not a time dilation factor like [math]\frac{t '}{t}[/math], and that the causality violating scenario Baker illustrated and I expanded on (which was given a name “the tachyonic antitelephone” 100 years ago by a contemporary of Einstein) isn’t much like the Twins Paradox.

 

In the Twins paradox thought experiment, the stay-at-home twin (let’s call her Alice) experiences more time passing that the traveling one (let’s call her Ellen), who could carry a message from and back to her. That message would arrive after she sent it, of course. Alice and Ellen would disagree about how long ago the message was sent, but neither would experience having received the message before Alice sent it.

 

In the tachyonic antitelephone thought experiment, we don’t ask or care about what the thing carrying the message experiences. All that matters is that Alice receives the message before she sends it.

 

I suspect that if you could somehow build a vehicle that can surpass the speed of light, all that would do to the occupants of the vehicle is have them experience perhaps a reversal of the laws of physics, say gravity becoming a repulsive force instead of attractive, but who knows?

If a vehicle could somehow be made to travel faster than light, it could play the role of the signal from Alice to Bob and Carol to Dave in the tachyonic antitelephone, and violate causality. Per the postulates of Special Relativity, however, the laws of physics would be the same for the occupants of the vehicle as for anyone anyplace.

 

I think it’s important to understand that, like A-Wal in his intervening post, no credible physicist has proposed that anything that can travel slower than light can travel faster than it, so vehicles like this are considered impossible, unless they somehow accomplish their travel by taking a path shorter than a straight line. That’s the principle behind Miguel Alcubierre’s “warp drive”.

 

Just as the tachyonic antitelephone requires either tachyons, or something that allows the exchange of information between distant points as if they were closer together – an “ansible”, neither of which are not believe by best current theory to be possible, an Alcueierre drive requires exotic matter that gravitationally repels rather than attacts other matter, which is not predicted by any well-supported theory to be possible.

[exchemist]

Getting back to the original topic, since we seem to have gone off on every possible tangent, I doubt super-intelligent extraterrestrial life exists, since intelligent life certainly does not exist here.  Have you seen the supermarket tabloids or daytime television?

You seem to be the alter ego of either Mike Giggler (by email) or Bogbrush (from the message boards), in Private Eye. 

[Super Polymath]

It isn’t, unless we assume that something that can travel faster than the speed of light – tachyons - exist. My mention of Robert Ehrlich’s “neutrinos are tachyons” hypothesis notwithstanding, there’s no scientific evidence tachyons exist, and many strong theoretical arguments that the cannot.

 

What I did above is add some math expanding on Richard Baker’s 2003 “Relativity, FTL, and causality” webpage, which was all text and graphics. I’ve wanted to do this – be able to put precise numbers to Baker’s excellent explanations – for a few years, and finally took the time to do it, and answer some nagging question I had about it in the process.

 

But it’s unlikely tachyons exist or will ever exists, so all this is just “what it” speculation.

 

Special Relativity give a nonsensical result for time dilation for an inertial speed. The formula

[math]\frac{t'}{t} = \sqrt{ 1- \left( \frac{v}{c} \right)^2}[/math]

give not a not a negative, but an imaginary number (containing a factor of [math]\sqrt{-1}[/math]) if v > c.

 

The physical significance, if any, of this number is what leads many to theorize that tachyons are impossible.

No one, and I mean no one claims to know anything about the exotic matter that composes most of the universe. The entire Lambda Cdm that any of us can use is ALSO pure conjecture, lol. An educated guess about 94% of the universe. Edited January 17, 2017 by Super Polymath

[Super Polymath]

I find it hard to imagine that, if tachyons existed, and a technology able to use them, that people wouldn’t use them as I’ve described to have effectively infinitely fast computers.

 

Causality violation is so disturbingly weird that I can imagine a civilization with the ability to do it choosing, by way of a strict ban, not to. Such bans are a staple of science fiction, constituting the heart of an entire genre, in which “time cops” hunt down villains seeking to change their present by changing the past, so all one needs to imagine them is to pay attention to books, movies, videos and TV shows, not even have an original idea. The infinitely fast computers I describe could be made to avoid the kinds of causality violations feared by such civilizations (eg: traveling back in time and killing the hero’s mother before they are born), sending back in time only information used to compute results that could be computed in an arbitrarily short time by an arbitrarily fast computer. The system used to do this would likely be large and require a lot of power, so easier for the ban-imposing government to secure and control than something small and cheap. So the effective causality violation ban would just require a strong cyber security agency.

 

These aren't the kind of sentients we're factoring in here.

 

I mean that my second most relevant hypothesis in this thread (superseded only by the inconsisntency with Darwinian evolution demonstrated in the paradoxical continuation of a dying hominid population that was the result of an anomolous evolutionary primate-deviation that consistently defied natural selection) is that any vastly superhuman ETs who are type I civilizations or above on the kardashev scale have become non-biological femptoengineers, Doctor Manhattan from Watchmen transhuman infomorphs are all that remain.

 

This is a universal rule. A civilization MUST embrace post-scarcity (no money no social hierarchy no government other than a scientific body no crime no starvation no war no nations) liberated open-source ecologies aka a collection of independent anarchical pockets of society from the land of Texas to the Martian frontier (a technological utopia), infinite longevity either via mind uploading (ICT implants composed of nanotech assisted by exa byte computer technologies to create serogate mirror consciousnesses via lattice quantum chromodynamics) or via gradual decade-long nanotech neuron replacement therapy to eat or replace someone's brain organ and entire nervous system with an artificial cybernetic brain without killing that person or breaking his conscious stream of continuity (as is Ray Kurzweil's vision).

 

These are, truly, Gods to us. Made so from a combination of scientific advances and a duodecillion post-singularity paradigm shifts.

 

Yes, they are able to outlive their native stars, able to harness most of the energy in their native galaxies by utilizing that which sorrounds all of its stars (transforming the entirety of their surrounding planetary systems into endless quadrillions of energy collecting megastructures able to dim a satellite like segue 1 within a million years) control the weather and cause thermodynamic miracles via femto engineering, attain nigh-omniscience by producing superluminal exotic matter in circular particle accelerators that form rings around entire solar systems, powered by stars and streamlined by the femtoengineers...and play God with biological evolution on remote worlds. This is all conceptual yet from a highly skeptical (skeptical of the widely accepted yet blind scientific theory) vantage point, it's really not-so-strange as it seems. I'm sure you see that now, that a discovery may very quickly come along (via neutrino weighing) to shake our "best" yet not so infallible "educated guess".

Edited January 17, 2017 by Super Polymath

[Super Polymath]

And if not neutrinos, I actually believe it's likely that some part of that 94% of the cosmos which is invisible to us, could be superluminal. Especially that which is effected by dark energy. Knowing how it works to distort the fabric which you seem to be convinced can't be distorted in your statement:

Just as the tachyonic antitelephone requires either tachyons, or something that allows the exchange of information between distant points as if they were closer together – an “ansible”, neither of which are not believe by best current theory to be possible, an Alcueierre drive requires exotic matter that gravitationally repels rather than attacts other matter, which is not predicted by any well-supported theory to be possible.

Accelerated expansion seems to beg to differ. Keep in mind I'm not bringing the purely mathematical and unwarranted conjecture of super string or membrane or even regular string theory as in a flat universe into accelerating expansion. I look at the universe's "shape" as both immeasurable to any of our scientific tools and beyond the reach of our collective perceptions and imaginations, unlike those who mathematically scramble for a geometric simplification. A bunch of numerologists falsely defining order from chaos in my mind.

 

I've created these infovores in my head and in my topic. My ideas and explanations are fueled by creativity, skepticism, and the tools of the information age to account for what I consider anomolies relative to my own experience that would be consitent with the existence of some variant of God or a higher power. This guiding force based off of an understanding that my existence is an artificial existence and not consistent with the natural rule by chaos one would expect from a baseline reality or a random existence, yet I concede that there must be unassisted baseline life out there that came about by random chance if my inhibitions were true. So none of this is unlike Scientology, Monotheism, polytheism. Yet I'd consider a more rational approach, because it gives us something to work towards in an unbiased and scientific manner. Let's see if superluminal particles exist, science can allow us to validate or discard such a belief.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Super Polymath

[current]

Super Polymath

 

Not artifical existence but an existence in tune with Nature .

 

I thought many years ago that the Universe could be the mind of a being . Not god persay but a mind of a being .

 

Is there a superintelligent extraterrestrial life , absolutely.

 

From Babylon 5 , The First Ones .

 

Anyway , your ideas are terrific .

 

Keep it up

 

current

Edited March 4, 2017 by current

[Super Polymath]

Super Polymath

 

Not artifical existence but an existence in tune with Nature .

 

I thought many years ago that the Universe could be the mind of a being . Not god persay but a mind of a being .

 

Is there a superintelligent extraterrestrial life , absolutely.

 

From Babylon 5 , The First Ones .

 

Anyway , your ideas are terrific .

 

Keep it up

 

current

CraigD explained exactly how they would be Gods, with the possibility of megastructures like Dyson Swarms, and the ability to spread such megastructures around most of the stars across entire galaxies within a relatively short amount of time given that with CragD's perfect ion propulsion engines goimg against the spin of that galaxy, the galaxy could be circled by swarms virtually as fast as it would take light to circle them in a vacuum, other megastructures like solar system sized particle accelerators that are solar fed, large-scale, cumulatively networked and chain linked together, and each powerful enough to generate and manipulate superluminal exotic particle fields there are no barriers infomorphs cannot cross as they do infinite calculations and control the past, present, and future simultaneously by breaking causility. In the sense that the infomorphs are one collective mind, it is one abstract entity working with a theory of everything on top of a totally complete CMB spectrum that looks different than ours because it contains exotic matter we cannot account for.

 

If the infomorphs are truly immortal, than this thing meets every criterion for a cosmaforming God.

 

If they are femtoengineers as well, they can possibly create atomic alcubierre esque warp drives as well and alter the course of earth evolution via altering electric impulses within neuronal myolin sheaths to generate controlled synapses and selectively breed hominid traits virtually in real time from a galaxy away.

 

Then go a step further and guide technological and scientific advances in the same way

 

Sort of a superluminal, active information panspermia based on game theory, psychology oriented decision theory, combinatorics, optimization, causality defying history alteration/modification, etc etc. If we are a child civilization they're just shaping us into extensions of their collective infomorph society.

 

They mainly consume energy and expend it on animating the matter they occupy down to the atomic level, and doing all that simply with information. Always gathering information, that's why they're infovores. We may not even need string theory, as Einstein would have suspected. String theory is glorified faith in mathematical chaos posing as astrophysics.

 

There's still a question arising from this potential reality, if the infomorphs/vores are the chicken and we (and an incalculably vast number of subsequent child/parent civilizations that proceed or preceded us are the eggs, and the infovores are the chickens that laid them, which came first?) Well the answer is simple. The egg came first. I'd imagine on a planet with no spin orbiting a red dwarf star. Since a red dwarf star has more longevity than ours, life would have more time to evolve into an intelligent civilization, not to mention red dwarf stars are more common than other stars and generally ALWAYS have planets orbiting them.

 

Hope you followed that.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Super Polymath

[Super Polymath]

So, CraigD had explained earlier how, with tachyonic antiteliphones, even the most miniscule and rudimentary atomic structures (femto-computers arriving on earth to use humans as hosts to contact and upload evolutionary updates to the collective) like "brass gears" can do infinite calculations.

 

So taking information panspermia, to the extent of playing God with a civilization as opposed to just simply programming evolutionary developments, to the point of which these little atom sized robots are designed to write symphonies of mathematical precision while defying causality.

 

That's pretty impressive. If it takes a dozen mega particle accelerators powered by stars to generate enough dark energy for superluminal transportation and FTL data communication, it's high cost

 

 

However, these femptites (atom sized star trek enterprises) are necessary because you can't transport anything larger than a few atoms at a time with tachyonic alcubierre warp drives. So just femptotech and progress updates are allowed to go extreme distances

 

 

Otherwise we mortals have no purpose, because the immortals could just expand in finitely using macroscopic construction swarms with billion in ton payloads

 

 

It would take googols of years for kardashev's vision of a type 3+ civilization to be realized. My scenario is actually more realistic. In that these are isolated AI Dyson Swarms evolving inferior organic terrestrials using discrete ftl signals and femtotech in order to spread as opposed to wasting an eternity on conventional space exploration methods.

[Super Polymath]

We humans need a force to get us to come to the conclusion that we need to become subtrate independent to evolve further through AI. The original species that came that conclusion would have naturally had more of an intellectual advantage. Not only more ethnicities within one sapio-like society, but at least 30 different subspecies (I.e. hominids) whose intellectual traits would have been naturally advantageous unlike on earth meaning we'd have several intelligent species with several different civilization co-existing. Also, copulation seems to allow us to expand our horizons, since we are not biologically immortal and require reproduction to survive, there's now more humans than there are any other mammal. That many minds adding to the collective and we still can't come to the conclusion. So originally I would imagine there being more than just two genders and a lot more offspring and cultures for baseline civilizations

 

 

Again, this is all based off us not being a baseline civilization. Instead, we seem like an artificially developed one.

 

I mean, according to the Drake equation naturally evolved intelligent life should be way more common than it actually is, because the Drake equation is based on us. Do you need anymore evidence that we got a booster seat from something?

Edited March 16, 2017 by Super Polymath

[current]

CraigD explained exactly how they would be Gods, with the possibility of megastructures like Dyson Swarms, and the ability to spread such megastructures around most of the stars across entire galaxies within a relatively short amount of time given that with CragD's perfect ion propulsion engines goimg against the spin of that galaxy, the galaxy could be circled by swarms virtually as fast as it would take light to circle them in a vacuum, other megastructures like solar system sized particle accelerators that are solar fed, large-scale, cumulatively networked and chain linked together, and each powerful enough to generate and manipulate superluminal exotic particle fields there are no barriers infomorphs cannot cross as they do infinite calculations and control the past, present, and future simultaneously by breaking causility. In the sense that the infomorphs are one collective mind, it is one abstract entity working with a theory of everything on top of a totally complete CMB spectrum that looks different than ours because it contains exotic matter we cannot account for.

If the infomorphs are truly immortal, than this thing meets every criterion for a cosmaforming God.

If they are femtoengineers as well, they can possibly create atomic alcubierre esque warp drives as well and alter the course of earth evolution via altering electric impulses within neuronal myolin sheaths to generate controlled synapses and selectively breed hominid traits virtually in real time from a galaxy away.Then go a step further and guide technological and scientific advances in the same way

Sort of a superluminal, active information panspermia based on game theory, psychology oriented decision theory, combinatorics, optimization, causality defying history alteration/modification, etc etc. If we are a child civilization they're just shaping us into extensions of their collective infomorph society.

They mainly consume energy and expend it on animating the matter they occupy down to the atomic level, and doing all that simply with information. Always gathering information, that's why they're infovores. We may not even need string theory, as Einstein would have suspected. String theory is glorified faith in mathematical chaos posing as astrophysics.

There's still a question arising from this potential reality, if the infomorphs/vores are the chicken and we (and an incalculably vast number of subsequent child/parent civilizations that proceed or preceded us are the eggs, and the infovores are the chickens that laid them, which came first?) Well the answer is simple. The egg came first. I'd imagine on a planet with no spin orbiting a red dwarf star. Since a red dwarf star has more longevity than ours, life would have more time to evolve into an intelligent civilization, not to mention red dwarf stars are more common than other stars and generally ALWAYS have planets orbiting them.

Hope you followed that.

CraigD such a vision .

 

The problem a planet with no spin = no gravity .

[current]

So, CraigD had explained earlier how, with tachyonic antiteliphones, even the most miniscule and rudimentary atomic structures (femto-computers arriving on earth to use humans as hosts to contact and upload evolutionary updates to the collective) like "brass gears" can do infinite calculations.

So taking information panspermia, to the extent of playing God with a civilization as opposed to just simply programming evolutionary developments, to the point of which these little atom sized robots are designed to write symphonies of mathematical precision while defying causality.

That's pretty impressive. If it takes a dozen mega particle accelerators powered by stars to generate enough dark energy for superluminal transportation and FTL data communication, it's high cost

However, these femptites (atom sized star trek enterprises) are necessary because you can't transport anything larger than a few atomìs at a time with tachyonic alcubierre warp drives. So just femptotech and progress updates are allowed to go extreme distances

Otherwise we mortals have no purpose, because the immortals could just expand in finitely using macroscopic construction swarms with billion in ton payloads

It would take googols of years for kardashev's vision of a type 3+ civilization to be realized. My scenario is actually more realistic. In that these are isolated AI Dyson Swarms evolving inferior organic terrestrials using discrete ftl signals and femtotech in order to spread as opposed to wasting an eternity on conventional space exploration methods.

The calculations by being infinite are infinitely calculating , hence won't come to any conclusion hence become irrelevant . Because the Universe is constantly changing. Hence the changes are not included in the calculations.

 

Anti-gravity proplusion would work and will work just fine .

[current]

We humans need a force to get us to come to the conclusion that we need to become subtrate independent to evolve further through AI. The original species that came that conclusion would have naturally had more of an intellectual advantage. Not only more ethnicities within one sapio-like society, but at least 30 different subspecies (I.e. hominids) whose intellectual traits would have been naturally advantageous unlike on earth meaning we'd have several intelligent species with several different civilization co-existing. Also, copulation seems to allow us to expand our horizons, since we are not biologically immortal and require reproduction to survive, there's now more humans than there are any other mammal. That many minds adding to the collective and we still can't come to the conclusion. So originally I would imagine there being more than just two genders and a lot more offspring and cultures for baseline civilizations

Again, this is all based off us not being a baseline civilization. Instead, we seem like an artificially developed one.

I mean, according to the Drake equation naturally evolved intelligent life should be way more common than it actually is, because the Drake equation is based on us. Do you need anymore evidence that we got a booster seat from something?

AI is not a Human evolution but a tech. evolution .

 

Human evolution is through a holistic , whole body , evolution .

 

Meaning improving our body , brain and mind to the point of being almost indestructable.

 

Two genders is enough for me . We haven't yet reached the full potential of either gender yet.