Illusion

[Qfwfq]

I don't think many Iraqi have ever seen him, more likely many Saudi, some Afghani and the odd Paki have.

[bartock]

  Tormod said:

My point is the same as the others brought up: Your consciousness cannot dream up a universe that is not there, because your consciousness is a product of said universe.

 

If the universe is an illusion, then so are you (and absolutely everything else), and it really wouldn't change anything. So our universe may well be an illusion.

little bang is right that all is not what appears to be.

actually our consciousness is a product of us. we make it like what it is not the universe.if we say we are the product of the universe then that is determinism.

[Erasmus00]

  bartock said:

:xx: psychologist is the doc. to cure that kind of stuff not psychiatrist(who is maybe 1/4 trained in dealing with pronlems of the mind, he mainly deals in drugs )

 

If you are hallucinating, odds are medication is the way to go.

-Will

[bartock]

  Qfwfq said:

I don't think many Iraqi have ever seen him, more likely many Saudi, some Afghani and the odd Paki have.

when usama was alive ppl did see him.he is dead and the amarican gov is making his gost(cgi) terrorise the amarican people.

[bartock]

  Erasmus00 said:

If you are hallucinating, odds are medication is the way to go.

-Will

well for every disease of the mind there is a communication(sentance) that can cure it.but who is going to find that sentance( huge undertaking). using medication for mind is like determinism. we are logical beings.through giving ourselves logical reasons we keep sain or become insain.or cure our mind diseases our selves by giving ourselves good logical reasons based on reality. you will have a better idea when you see the movi A BEAUTIFUL. MIND

[Little Bang]

Ok, let's see if I can come up with some scenario that has some plausability to it. Let's suppose that a race of beings has learned everything there is to learn. They can manipulate matter and energy in both directions. They have conquered death and they are bored so they create a situation or new type of universe where they can send their conscousness (without memories) to live an infinite number of lives over again where you as the observer are one of those beings?

[Erasmus00]

  bartock said:

well for every disease of the mind there is a communication(sentance) that can cure it.but who is going to find that sentance( huge undertaking). using medication for mind is like determinism. we are logical beings.through giving ourselves logical reasons we keep sain or become insain.or cure our mind diseases our selves by giving ourselves good logical reasons based on reality. you will have a better idea when you see the movi A BEAUTIFUL. MIND

 

Nash, the mathemitician in A Beatuiful Mind, takes medication to help manage the auditory hallucinations of his scizophrenia. The movie is pretty inaccurate in its depiction of Nash's life and his disease. I recommend the PBSdocumentary A Brilliant Madness. You should also consider studying a bit of psychology.

-Will

[bartock]

  Erasmus00 said:

Nash, the mathemitician in A Beatuiful Mind, takes medication to help manage the auditory hallucinations of his scizophrenia. The movie is pretty inaccurate in its depiction of Nash's life and his disease. I recommend the PBSdocumentary A Brilliant Madness. You should also consider studying a bit of psychology.

-Will

well i could say the same to you to read up on psychology and not just it's history.

which parts are wrong depictions of Nash's life in the movie

[Erasmus00]

  bartock said:

well i could say the same to you to read up on psychology and not just it's history.

which parts are wrong depictions of Nash's life in the movie

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash#Movie_inspired_by_Nash.27s_life

 

The movie leaves a lot out. The book was more accurate, and the PBS documentary I already mentioned. The wikipedia article explains. And I only mention psychology because you seem to come from the perspective that therapy works for every mental disease (i.e., finding a "communication" that can cure it) which is a simplistic view of therapy and also not really true. There are mental illnesses which do not respond well to therapy alone.

-Will

[bartock]

  Erasmus00 said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash#Movie_inspired_by_Nash.27s_life

 

The movie leaves a lot out. The book was more accurate, and the PBS documentary I already mentioned. The wikipedia article explains. And I only mention psychology because you seem to come from the perspective that therapy works for every mental disease (i.e., finding a "communication" that can cure it) which is a simplistic view of therapy and also not really true. There are mental illnesses which do not respond well to therapy alone.

-Will

http://www.freeinfosociety.com says

"some time in the 80s he finally overcame his mental illnes, learning to reject the voices that he heard in his head.his recovery was gradual,but allowed him to slowly become mentally fit ,allowing him to regain a role in society.he said that his recovery was as a result of his decision to think rationally"

proves exactly my point. he reasoned with himself of what the reality or the truth was.

[Erasmus00]

  bartock said:

http://www.freeinfosociety.com says

"some time in the 80s he finally overcame his mental illnes, learning to reject the voices that he heard in his head.his recovery was gradual,but allowed him to slowly become mentally fit ,allowing him to regain a role in society.he said that his recovery was as a result of his decision to think rationally"

proves exactly my point. he reasoned with himself of what the reality or the truth was.

 

The article you quote is an encyclopedia like entry on Nash. The fact that it leaves out his treatment options and glosses over the difficult road to recovering from a mental illness is just the nature of the article. It is not a complete biography. He is on medication. Medication with the primary function of controling his hallucinations.

-Will

[bartock]

  Erasmus00 said:

The article you quote is an encyclopedia like entry on Nash. The fact that it leaves out his treatment options and glosses over the difficult road to recovering from a mental illness is just the nature of the article. It is not a complete biography. He is on medication. Medication with the primary function of controling his hallucinations.

-Will

well people live with cancer dont they.they have to take drugs for the pain and all.so what dont you understand in Nashes illness. he is or was taking drugs so. your focus is on drugs only. you are not looking at the biger picture my friend.

[Harzburgite]

  Erasmus00 said:

..... The movie is pretty inaccurate in its depiction of Nash's life and his disease. ...... The movie leaves a lot out. The book was more accurate, and the PBS documentary I already mentioned.

I'm somewhat puzzled. Where is the movie inaccurate? Of course it omits details: that is the nature of movies. What else would you expect? That does not necessarily make it inaccurate.

How do you know the book is more accurate? I don't see how you can make that statement unless you have access to unpublished information on Nash. Still puzzled.

[Boerseun]

  bartock said:

http://www.freeinfosociety.com says

"some time in the 80s he finally overcame his mental illnes, learning to reject the voices that he heard in his head.his recovery was gradual,but allowed him to slowly become mentally fit ,allowing him to regain a role in society.he said that his recovery was as a result of his decision to think rationally"

proves exactly my point. he reasoned with himself of what the reality or the truth was.

Nash saying quote ...recovery was a result of his decision to think rationally unquote is BULLSHITE. Consciously making a decision to think rationally 'as of now' obviously implies being irrational to begin with. Which means somebody can irrationally decide to think rationally. If he came to this conclusion whilst being irrational, which he had to be by definition, disqualifies any results he came up with - if he turned out rational afterwards, it was by accident.

 

DON'T always believe what Hollywood dishes up. Hollywood only tells you what they think will sell tickets - in this case the poor underdog maths genius who overcame his demons to tell everybody that game theory's the way to go. It was a pretty disappointing movie, in any case - but bullshite nonetheless.

[Erasmus00]

  Harzburgite said:

I'm somewhat puzzled. Where is the movie inaccurate? Of course it omits details: that is the nature of movies. What else would you expect? That does not necessarily make it inaccurate.

How do you know the book is more accurate? I don't see how you can make that statement unless you have access to unpublished information on Nash. Still puzzled.

 

The movie is inaccurate in what it states about Nash's famous equilibrium. Nash says he never had visual hallucinations, only auditory, so there is another point that isn't accurate. It omits his second family in Boston and their role in his treatment. It downplays the role of drugs in his improvements. etc etc. I have access to Nash's autobiographical accounts, and other biographical information written about him, as well as the PBS documentary. The movie varies from Nash's own accounts, much more than the book on which the movie is based.

-Will

[Harzburgite]

Thank you. That has clarified the matter.

[Gabriella]

You'd have to find out if they're orderly or disorderly. That would tell you if they're real.