Poultry/agricultural Science

[Maine farmer]

 

3. Most farmers treat their livestock appallingly. Part of this can be attributed to ignorance, partly a financial imperative to make a maximum profit.. I discovered that I was a very good shepherd, and I cared for my flock, but I was a failure as a farmer because I refused to compromise on animal welfare for financial gain. It is no good going into farming if you have a conscience.

 

This is one generalization that I have to challenge.  Cows treated poorly will not be productive.  The people I know in the dairy business have a passion for cows and make every effort to maintain their comfort and health.

 

As for the hardship involved in agriculture, most people young enough,  if motivated can acclimate to the hard work , but the economics can be brutal.

 

Thank you! I may have misrepresented my intentions here. I'm looking to speak to people who have gone through these programs in a university! I appreciate the tips though :)

Whatever your future  holds, I advise taking courses in economics, accounting, and business management.  I also suggest checking out the websites of any universities that interest you, and you may be able to get in touch with some students and alumni.

[DrKrettin]

This is one generalization that I have to challenge.  Cows treated poorly will not be productive.  The people I know in the dairy business have a passion for cows and make every effort to maintain their comfort and health.

 

 

 

Ah yes - this is where I agree with you almost. But I have seen the following with my own eyes: a dairy cow at the end of its useful life is worth very little, but if a cow has BSE the government will compensate the value of a good milking cow. I have witnessed a farmer take such an old cow, beat it brutally with a stick until it is trembling and terrified, simulating all the signs of BSE., the vet comes along and gives him a certificate of BSE and he gets more money for his useless cow. A lot of dairy farmers in the UK are on the edge of going bankrupt and are tempted to go to these vile lengths to survive. I know the above is not an isolated case, by the way.

 

I also have grave doubts about the maximization of milk yields - the pressure to produce as much milk as possible does (in my opinion) not add to the welfare of the herd, regardless of how well they are treated.

[gregorybeans]

Well that's what I was attempting to do here. Not specifically looking for farming advice but thanks anyway!

[Maine farmer]

Well that's what I was attempting to do here. Not specifically looking for farming advice but thanks anyway!

For lower cost check out  https://nsfa.umaine.edu or for more expensive and exclusive https://cals.cornell.edu

 

Again, economics, accounting, and business management would be a beneficial addition to any education.

[gregorybeans]

For lower cost check out https://nsfa.umaine.edu or for more expensive and exclusive https://cals.cornell.edu

 

Again, economics, accounting, and business management would be a beneficial addition to any education.

 

On that path now! Lots of research

[gregorybeans]

Btw farmer guy, I'm watching the egg and I right now! Thanks for the recommendation

[Maine farmer]

Btw farmer guy, I'm watching the egg and I right now! Thanks for the recommendation

 

I hope you enjoyed the movie.  I hope you noticed the historical perspective.  People did actually live like that!  Did you note how there was a sense of community where just about everyone was connected to agriculture?  We have lost much of that, even in rural areas.  Farms are fewer and much farther between now.  People who provide supplies and services to farmers in Maine now routinely travel as much as 200 miles in a day!

 

For the last 30 years, the big movements in agriculture have been been in the fields of precision  and genetics.  While I understand the cultural backlash against the genetic aspect of advancement, unless the human population stops growing, it will be necessary to make further advances in that field. Otherwise, only the wealthy will be able to eat.

[DrKrettin]

I hope you enjoyed the movie.  I hope you noticed the historical perspective.  People did actually live like that!  Did you note how there was a sense of community where just about everyone was connected to agriculture?  We have lost much of that, even in rural areas.  Farms are fewer and much farther between now. 

 

I remember well how a farmer I knew was showing me his farm. He proudly indicated that his land stretched the entire length and breadth of the valley, and how his family had systematically bought up neighbouring farms in the valley, of which there had been a dozen two generations earlier. He didn't seem to mind that he was almost totally isolated with virtually no social contact, and obviously had never questioned whether his quality of life had improved over his lifetime. He was in fact a miserable lonely old sod whom nobody liked. I found this rather sad.

[Maine farmer]

Ah yes - this is where I agree with you almost. But I have seen the following with my own eyes: a dairy cow at the end of its useful life is worth very little, but if a cow has BSE the government will compensate the value of a good milking cow. I have witnessed a farmer take such an old cow, beat it brutally with a stick until it is trembling and terrified, simulating all the signs of BSE., the vet comes along and gives him a certificate of BSE and he gets more money for his useless cow. A lot of dairy farmers in the UK are on the edge of going bankrupt and are tempted to go to these vile lengths to survive. I know the above is not an isolated case, by the way.

 

I also have grave doubts about the maximization of milk yields - the pressure to produce as much milk as possible does (in my opinion) not add to the welfare of the herd, regardless of how well they are treated.

This is a situation most difficult to believe.  One would expect that if the government is going to pay for a cow with bse, that they would require a biopsy of brain tissue as confirmation rather than a display of symptoms, as a cow with ketosis will display similar symptoms to bse, except a cow with ketosis will respond fairly quickly to treatment.  Can you provide a link to support this please?  I googled reimbursement programs and only found programs that reimburse the veterinarian for diagnosis.  If this is going on, someone needs to end that program.  I have heard of farmers killing their cows and then committing suicide out of desperation, but to beat an animal senseless for money is way beyond anything I have ever heard of.  

 

As for maximization of milk yields, producing maximum milk is not even the most profitable strategy.  We selectively breed for other traits such as foot angle, udder attachment, calving ease, and productive life as well.

[DrKrettin]

 Can you provide a link to support this please?  

 

I'm afraid I can't, because this is just my personal experience, and I assure you that unfortunately it is true. I have no idea how widespread this animal cruelty was, but in Wales there are farmers who do treat their livestock appallingly, even if they are in a small minority. I have had conversations with the local vet who used to get quite depressed about the general lack of animal welfare. You must consider that these are probably men who inherited a farm and have had no formal education and never had an incentive to farm efficiently. A near neighbour of mine used to farm sheep, which he just left for months on end without inspecting them. One day I counted 8 dead sheep in a field, having died of fly strike, an agonizing death of being eaten alive by maggots from blowflies which lay their eggs in near a sheep's tail. He was prosecuted for animal cruelty, but the farmer's union of Wales automatically employs a QC to defend any farmer, and they are rarely found guilty. It's a disgrace. (I used to inspect the sheep at least once a day for signs of fly strike, by the way.)

 

Anyway, getting back to the not-BSE cow, this was at the height of the BSE crisis in around 1990, and my guess is that in a herd where BSE had been already identified, a vet's certificate would have been sufficient without the need of a biopsy because of the volume of work involved. I assure you, I'm not making this up. Things are probably different now.

[Maine farmer]

Cases of animal cruelty on farms that I am aware of were due to either the mental state of the owner, or to there being too many poorly trained and poorly supervised workers on large operations.

 

We are inspected several times each year by the state and the cooperative to which we belong, and the condition of the animals is a part of that inspection process.  We additionally have to undergo an animal welfare audit each year, and we must be willing to accept a random inspection by a third party.  

[gregorybeans]

If I could gently guide you all from the drift really quickly please. I made this post to find info from people who had gone to school to get a degree in poultry or animal science, that's it. I appreciate your input but can you make an individual thread to discuss dairy yield vs animal cruelty? It's very off topic and I'm reiciving notifications all the time. Thank you :)

[OceanBreeze]

If I could gently guide you all from the drift really quickly please. I made this post to find info from people who had gone to school to get a degree in poultry or animal science, that's it. I appreciate your input but can you make an individual thread to discuss dairy yield vs animal cruelty? It's very off topic and I'm reiciving notifications all the time. Thank you :)

 

Well, you sure solved that problem!