What Exactly Is The Alt-Right

[serenesam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQKWvgzDi40&t=238s

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DqjUfqj_2c&t=5166s

 

In the first above video, Seth Cooper says that despite what Gandhi said, we [The Alt-Right] have to wage war or it would be over for the European races at around 1:12:55. Also, the discussion of eugenics comes up at around 45:00.

 

In the second above video, starting at around 1:22:55, Seth Cooper says the following:

 

1). That he has top secret clearance for about 14 years now.

2). That he can’t get way too much into the details about agencies he worked or works for and that those agencies shall remain unnamed. 

3). That total transparency will bring down a power structure.

 

So what exactly is The Alt-Right? 

 

One can look on the internet and find all kinds of things and so it could be kind of confusing. Is there a difference between The Alt-Right and The Neoreactionary Movement? Is there a difference between The Alt-Right and White Nationalism? 

 

 

By the way, I was just thinking that even if there was this kind of fantasy where immigration is totally banned from Non-White countries, what about the Non-Whites that are already present in the United States? I mean, think about it, White people tend to not have more than two kids so essentially, they are just replicating themselves. Non-Whites on the other hand tend to have shitloads of children and so eventually, the Non-White population will outnumber the Whites anyways (it might take a while but it’ll get there). What happens then? What would America look like 1,000 years from now? Is that why there is some kind of campaign within The Alt-Right related media to encourage White women to have as many kids as possible? Is there a reason to push appropriate sex/gender roles as well?

[OceanBreeze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siMFORx8uO8

[LaurieAG]

Welcome to Hypography serenesam.

 

The 'alt right' label was cooked up as a universal straw man argument, that would be used to lay a massive guilt trip on innocent people who had nothing whatsoever to do with white nationalism and their ilk, in an attempt to cover up the woeful inadequacies of the major political parties (of both sides) over the past 25 years. 

 

It's only the 5% of extremists (fundamentalists both left and right) who like the 'alt right' tag because they can incite hatred (either way left or right) or recruit basically honest but not very smart people to their cause (either way left or right). 

 

Over the next 20 years there will be a substantial reduction in the numbers of available jobs around most western countries so people better start asking their politicians about realistic solutions to these problems before the 'alt' way becomes the only viable solution. 

[DianeG]

I know Bannon claims that the alt-right is not truly racist and that the neo nazis, white nationalists are just the fringe. He says they will eventually "wash out." Still, it's a bit difficult to reconcile that excuse with speeches he has given about there being a global struggle between Christians of European dissent and Islam. He might see it as more of a philosophical struggle than racial, but the nod to the superiority of Western civilization, and everything that implies, is still there. 

 

And certainly Richard Spencer is an unabashed white nationalist. In an interview with NPR, I heard him talk extensively about his belief in the natural, biological basis of racial conflict and segregation The idea that racism is just a "straw man" starts to look more like a "no true Scotsman fallacy," if significant numbers of self proclaimed leaders like Spencer espouse those views in no uncertain terms. Spencer did, after all, invent the term alt right, so I guess he gets to decide what it means. 

Edited February 21, 2017 by DianeG

[LaurieAG]

The idea that racism is just a "straw man" starts to look more like a "no true Scotsman fallacy," if significant numbers of self proclaimed leaders like Spencer espouse those views in no uncertain terms.

 

Using patriotism in the same way cowered the majority in the US to support operation liberate Iraqi oil reserves. Is racism, like patriotism the straw man or is lack of patriotism or lack of racism? You certainly seem to know what a straw man is

[DianeG]

Well, you're right, I've seen both lack of patriotism or racism used in kind of knee-jerk accusations. But the opposite is true as well - people claiming that someone is "just playing the race card" and does not have any sort valid complaint or observation regarding inequality. Maybe it's better not to attribute broad and sinister motivations in most political debates and stick to more concrete cause and effect relationships. But when someone like Spencer flat out tells you the races will never get along and shouldn't mix, it's not a speculative leap to call that racism.

 

I have always been interested, though, in how internal struggles within movements or groups play out -when members of a group, whether it's feminists or Christians or one of the parties, become so divided on key issues, that they no longer want to be associated with one another. Some faction either has to adopt a new identity, or come to some compromise. Although the Republican party is dominant in American politics, and in a much stronger position than Democrats, I also feel like there is a big schism in the GOP in it as well. Trump represents a new populist party despite not renaming itself. Trump and Republicans in congress have a gentleman's agreement for now, but who knows for how long.  

 

Another topic that interests me is  bias in general. I often think it would help if people looked at bias more scientifically and less as a moral issue, more like an information processing problem or bad heuristic.  One can be biased without an deliberate desire to do harm to others. It is the blame and guilt associated with the issue of bias that keeps people from acknowledging it. Not that the Spencers and Dylann Roofs of the world don't exist, not to mention deliberate political gerrymandering, but much bias is also unintentional.  

Edited February 21, 2017 by DianeG

[LaurieAG]

It seems that all of the elites, political, religious and financial have more in common with each other than they have with their own non elites and vs a vs.

 

If people put half as much effort in keeping their own politicians honest, as they do complaining about/denigrating their perceived opposition, the whole world would be a much better place.

[exchemist]

 

In the first above video, Seth Cooper says that despite what Gandhi said, we [The Alt-Right] have to wage war or it would be over for the European races at around 1:12:55. Also, the discussion of eugenics comes up at around 45:00.

 

In the second above video, starting at around 1:22:55, Seth Cooper says the following:

 

1). That he has top secret clearance for about 14 years now.

2). That he can’t get way too much into the details about agencies he worked or works for and that those agencies shall remain unnamed. 

3). That total transparency will bring down a power structure.

 

So what exactly is The Alt-Right? 

 

One can look on the internet and find all kinds of things and so it could be kind of confusing. Is there a difference between The Alt-Right and The Neoreactionary Movement? Is there a difference between The Alt-Right and White Nationalism? 

 

 

By the way, I was just thinking that even if there was this kind of fantasy where immigration is totally banned from Non-White countries, what about the Non-Whites that are already present in the United States? I mean, think about it, White people tend to not have more than two kids so essentially, they are just replicating themselves. Non-Whites on the other hand tend to have shitloads of children and so eventually, the Non-White population will outnumber the Whites anyways (it might take a while but it’ll get there). What happens then? What would America look like 1,000 years from now? Is that why there is some kind of campaign within The Alt-Right related media to encourage White women to have as many kids as possible? Is there a reason to push appropriate sex/gender roles as well?

No, think about it for a moment.

 

Birth rates generally vary inversely with wealth: poor people have more children. There is a lot of evidence that increasing affluence leads to lower reproductive rate. Provided the standard of living for poor Americans increases in the years to come, their birth rate will drop. 

 

Secondly, people marry increasingly across colour lines, as racial prejudice declines. This is what we see in the UK for example. It's true we got rid of black slavery a lot earlier than the US so we may be 50-100 years ahead on the prejudice front, but I'm sure the US will get there. So what you will have in a century or two, in the US,  is a wide spectrum of skin colour and a birth rate that is somewhat lower than today.

 

By the way, as a very unscientific observation, mixed colour people seem to me to look notably healthy and attractive - I wonder if there isn't something intrinsically good for the human race in mixing up the gene pool. Wouldn't you agree? :)

 

P.S. This Seth Cooper person sounds like Walter Mitty. I've never heard of him - does he have any credibility or is he just a nutter?   

Edited February 23, 2017 by exchemist

[serenesam]

Thanks for all the responses to this thread. I have to wonder if the following quotes from a couple of mathematicians might have summed up the long videos in the original post:

 

“André Weil suggested that there is a logarithmic law at work: first-rate people attract other first-rate people, but second-rate people tend to hire third-raters, and third-rate people hire fifth-raters. If a dean or a president is genuinely interested in building and maintaining a high-quality university (and some of them are), then he must not grant complete self-determination to a second-rate department; he must, instead, use his administrative powers to intervene and set things right. That's one of the proper functions of deans and presidents, and pity the poor university in which a large proportion of both the faculty and the administration are second-raters; it is doomed to diverge to minus infinity.” - Paul Halmos, mathematician

 

“First rate mathematicians choose first rate people, but second rate mathematicians choose third rate people.” - Andre Weil, mathematician

[A-wal]

By the way, as a very unscientific observation, mixed colour people seem to me to look notably healthy and attractive - I wonder if there isn't something intrinsically good for the human race in mixing up the gene pool. Wouldn't you agree? :)

Definitely! The most important think for a healthy gene pool is variety.

 

Anyone who thinks that it matters what colour eyes/hair/skin people have or will have in the future doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. There's no hope for people like that, all you can is laugh at them.

[exchemist]

 

Thanks for all the responses to this thread. I have to wonder if the following quotes from a couple of mathematicians might have summed up the long videos in the original post:

 

“André Weil suggested that there is a logarithmic law at work: first-rate people attract other first-rate people, but second-rate people tend to hire third-raters, and third-rate people hire fifth-raters. If a dean or a president is genuinely interested in building and maintaining a high-quality university (and some of them are), then he must not grant complete self-determination to a second-rate department; he must, instead, use his administrative powers to intervene and set things right. That's one of the proper functions of deans and presidents, and pity the poor university in which a large proportion of both the faculty and the administration are second-raters; it is doomed to diverge to minus infinity.” - Paul Halmos, mathematician

 

“First rate mathematicians choose first rate people, but second rate mathematicians choose third rate people.” - Andre Weil, mathematician

 

I may be being a bit slow but I don't see the relevance of these quotations, about 1st, 2nd, 3rd rate etc people, to the subject of this thread. 

 

It appeared to be about the relative population growth of different ethnic and social groups in US society. What has that to do with hiring people? 

 

....But now I see you posted an identical message on the other forum at the same time: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/alt-right-white-nationalists.158303/page-6#post-3443268

 

So maybe you are just a bot.

Edited March 14, 2017 by exchemist

[serenesam]

I may be being a bit slow but I don't see the relevance of these quotations, about 1st, 2nd, 3rd rate etc people, to the subject of this thread. 

 

It appeared to be about the relative population growth of different ethnic and social groups in US society. What has that to do with hiring people? 

 

....But now I see you posted an identical message on the other forum at the same time: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/alt-right-white-nationalists.158303/page-6#post-3443268

 

So maybe you are just a bot.

Well then you obviously didn't watch those videos.

[serenesam]

Definitely! The most important think for a healthy gene pool is variety.

 

Anyone who thinks that it matters what colour eyes/hair/skin people have or will have in the future doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. There's no hope for people like that, all you can is laugh at them.

Race mixing:

This studys sample came from the National Longitudnal Study of Addolecent Health. It consistent of kids from 80 schools between grades 7 and 12. It found that mixed race kids were more likely than single race blacks, whites, and asians, to smoke, drink, consider suicide, be in poor physical health, skin school, and be suspended. It also found that, compared to Asians and Whites, but not Blacks, they were more likely to have sex and repeat grades. These negative outcomes were found among mixed race children that were black/white, asian/white, and asian/black.

 

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448064/

 

A new study of Chinese-Caucasian, Filipino-Caucasian, Japanese-Caucasian and Vietnamese-Caucasian individuals concludes that biracial Asian Americans are twice as likely as monoracial Asian Americans to be diagnosed with a psychological disorder. Zane and his co-investigator, UC Davis psychology graduate student Lauren Berger, found that 34 percent of biracial individuals in a national survey had been diagnosed with a psychological disorder, such as anxiety, depression or substance abuse, versus 17 percent of monoracial individuals. The higher rate held up even after the researchers controlled for differences between the groups in age, gender and life stress, among other factors. 

 

Source: https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-08/uoc--baa081108.php

 

 

So yes, race is real. What you’ve been taugh in school is a lie.

[exchemist]

Well then you obviously didn't watch those videos.

Well of course not. I never watch videos on forums - far too timewasting. I rely on what people say in words I can read. 

[Maine farmer]

 

Race mixing:

This studys sample came from the National Longitudnal Study of Addolecent Health. It consistent of kids from 80 schools between grades 7 and 12. It found that mixed race kids were more likely than single race blacks, whites, and asians, to smoke, drink, consider suicide, be in poor physical health, skin school, and be suspended. It also found that, compared to Asians and Whites, but not Blacks, they were more likely to have sex and repeat grades. These negative outcomes were found among mixed race children that were black/white, asian/white, and asian/black.

 

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448064/

 

A new study of Chinese-Caucasian, Filipino-Caucasian, Japanese-Caucasian and Vietnamese-Caucasian individuals concludes that biracial Asian Americans are twice as likely as monoracial Asian Americans to be diagnosed with a psychological disorder. Zane and his co-investigator, UC Davis psychology graduate student Lauren Berger, found that 34 percent of biracial individuals in a national survey had been diagnosed with a psychological disorder, such as anxiety, depression or substance abuse, versus 17 percent of monoracial individuals. The higher rate held up even after the researchers controlled for differences between the groups in age, gender and life stress, among other factors. 

 

Source: https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-08/uoc--baa081108.php

 

 

So yes, race is real. What you’ve been taugh in school is a lie.

 

Statistics and studies are often used to obscure the truth in cases of confirmation bias.  The studies are certainly not indicative of mixed races being the cause of the problems cited. How people are treated in societies will undoubtedly cause negative effects on those who are on the receiving end of bigotry.  .  

[exchemist]

 

Race mixing:

This studys sample came from the National Longitudnal Study of Addolecent Health. It consistent of kids from 80 schools between grades 7 and 12. It found that mixed race kids were more likely than single race blacks, whites, and asians, to smoke, drink, consider suicide, be in poor physical health, skin school, and be suspended. It also found that, compared to Asians and Whites, but not Blacks, they were more likely to have sex and repeat grades. These negative outcomes were found among mixed race children that were black/white, asian/white, and asian/black.

 

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448064/

 

A new study of Chinese-Caucasian, Filipino-Caucasian, Japanese-Caucasian and Vietnamese-Caucasian individuals concludes that biracial Asian Americans are twice as likely as monoracial Asian Americans to be diagnosed with a psychological disorder. Zane and his co-investigator, UC Davis psychology graduate student Lauren Berger, found that 34 percent of biracial individuals in a national survey had been diagnosed with a psychological disorder, such as anxiety, depression or substance abuse, versus 17 percent of monoracial individuals. The higher rate held up even after the researchers controlled for differences between the groups in age, gender and life stress, among other factors. 

 

Source: https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-08/uoc--baa081108.php

 

 

So yes, race is real. What you’ve been taugh in school is a lie.

 

 

 

Statistics and studies are often used to obscure the truth in cases of confirmation bias.  The studies are certainly not indicative of mixed races being the cause of the problems cited. How people are treated in societies will undoubtedly cause negative effects on those who are on the receiving end of bigotry.  .  

Yes in fact there was a study in Nature, reported in 2015 that showed the opposite: http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/03/mixed-race-people-taller-and-smarter-study-says-5277767/

 

It rather looks as if the racial divides in the USA are rigid enough to cause psychological issues - both the studies Supremacistsam quotes only speak of psychological snags, rather than physical ones. Elsewhere this does not seem to be so. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by exchemist

[billvon]

 

So yes, race is real. What you’ve been taugh in school is a lie.

I'd say a better conclusion there is that bigots cause a lot of problems in society.