Where Does The Energy Come From ?

[exchemist]

so you think the water pressure at the lower end of the capillary floater is higher than the water pressure at the lower end of the outside floater even the lower end of the capillary floater is at a higher level than the lower end of the outside floater. this would mean pressure jumps inside the water. ???

Of course not. 

 

But the buoyancy of a rigid immersed object does not change with water pressure. It depends on the amount by which the mass of water displaced by the object exceeds the mass of the object. Pressure does not affect that.  

[deschoe]

thats nonsens :

 

The forces at work in buoyancy. Note that the object is floating because the upward force of buoyancy is equal to the downward force of gravity.

 

->  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buoyancy

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by deschoe

[exchemist]

thats nonsens :

 

The forces at work in buoyancy. Note that the object is floating because the upward force of buoyancy is equal to the downward force of gravity.

 

->  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buoyancy

Yes, but if you interpret that correctly you will see that the buoyancy arises from the difference in pressure between the bottom of the immersed object and the top. 

 

That difference in pressure is completely unaffected by the prevailing water pressure.

 

For example, you can be at 100m beneath the surface, under 10 bar excess pressure, or 5m, under 0.5 bar excess pressure and the upthrust due to buoyancy will be the same. 

Edited February 22, 2017 by exchemist

[deschoe]

both upper ends of the floaters are in the air, and we can neglect the air pressure, so the water pressure at the lower ends is decisive for the buoyancy, and according to your explanation the water pressure under the lower end of the capillary floater has to be higher, otherwise the cap-floater wouldnt rise more. if you dont agree, go back to the elementary and tell me if you back :lazy:  

[exchemist]

both upper ends of the floaters are in the air, and we can neglect the air pressure, so the water pressure at the lower ends is decisive for the buoyancy, and according to your explanation the water pressure under the lower end of the capillary floater has to be higher, otherwise the cap-floater wouldnt rise more. if you dont agree, go back to the elementary and tell me if you back :lazy:  

 

 

The floaters are immersed to the same depth in both cases.

 

The buoyancy upthrust each experiences is due to the pressure difference across the immersed portion, which is identical in both cases.  

 

The one inside the capillary floats higher simply because the water surface is at a higher level, due to capillary rise. 

 

In terms of pressure, the floater inside the experiences a slightly lower water pressure due to the upward pull of the meniscus, but that applies equally to the top and bottom of the immersed portion of it and thus has no effect on the pressure difference - and thus no effect on the buoyancy.

[deschoe]

that is absolute nonsens, and please ask an expert, but it doesnt matter. if you agree that the cap floater rises more than the outside floater and the floaters consits of small cubes, you are able to move the cubes as shown, so you have a permanent movment and you get more energy than you put in, lets make an equation, ok.

 

please calculate at first how many energy you have to invest, to move the upper cube of the cap floater in a horizontal direction for 1 cm. edge lengh 3 mm density 0,5 so the weight is 0,0135 g

 

thank you 

Edited February 22, 2017 by deschoe

[OceanBreeze]

The floaters are immersed to the same depth in both cases.

 

The buoyancy upthrust each experiences is due to the pressure difference across the immersed portion, which is identical in both cases.  

 

The one inside the capillary floats higher simply because the water surface is at a higher level, due to capillary rise. 

 

In terms of pressure, the floater inside the experiences a slightly lower water pressure due to the upward pull of the meniscus, but that applies equally to the top and bottom of the immersed portion of it and thus has no effect on the pressure difference - and thus no effect on the buoyancy.

 

 

Bingo. The buoyant force is equal to the weight of the water displaced. The displacement is exactly the same in both cases and the buoyant force is exactly the same. Connect them together by whatever means, whether it be a hoop or otherwise, and nothing happens because there is no force differential to exploit. Are we done here?

[OceanBreeze]

that is absolute nonsens, and please ask an expert, but it doesnt matter. if you agree that the cap floater rises more than the outside floater and the floaters consits of small cubes, you are able to move the cubes as shown, so you have a permanent movment and you got more energy than you put in, lets make an equation, ok.

 

please caculate at first how many energy you have invest, to move the upper cube of the cap floater in a horizontal direction for 1 cm. edge lengh 3 mm density 0,5 thank you 

 

I know something about buoyant force :lol:

Exchemist is exactly right and the only nonsense I see here is what you are posting.

[deschoe]

I know something about buoyant force :lol:

Exchemist is exactly right and the only nonsense I see here is what you are posting.

LOL

[exchemist]

that is absolute nonsens, and please ask an expert, but it doesnt matter. if you agree that the cap floater rises more than the outside floater and the floaters consits of small cubes, you are able to move the cubes as shown, so you have a permanent movment and you get more energy than you put in, lets make an equation, ok.

 

please calculate at first how many energy you have to invest, to move the upper cube of the cap floater in a horizontal direction for 1 cm. edge lengh 3 mm density 0,5 so the weight is 0,0135 g

 

thank you 

And you think this "expert" will agree your analysis - involving violation of conservation of energy - is correct?

 

If you think what I have just written is nonsense, perhaps you can point out exactly what it is that is wrong with it:-  

 

Do you disagree that buoyancy comes from the pressure difference across the immersed object, or the immersed portion of it, if it floats?

 

Do you disagree that the buoyancy of an immersed object under 10bars water depth is the same as under 0.5 bar?

 

Or is it something else that you disagree with and if so, what?  

[deschoe]

I thought you won't calculate the machine why don't you do it

[Maine farmer]

I thought you won't calculate the machine why don't you do it

You asked the question "Where does the energy come from?"  and yet you haven't even shown that any actual energy is produced.  The video links you provided were less than convincing.

[deschoe]

LOL Farming guy 

[exchemist]

I thought you won't calculate the machine why don't you do it

Sorry I don't know anything about cubes - I presume they must be in one of your videos. I thought we were dealing with either floaters or partly immersed hoops. 

 

So far we have been discussing the mechanism behind the observed phenomenon that a tiny float in a capillary rises to a higher level than it does in the bulk liquid. You disagree, apparently, with my analysis of the physics of this, but rather than point out where you think there is flaw in my argument you introduce a new subject. Generally I prefer to finish one topic before starting another. To do otherwise seems confusing, to me. 

[deschoe]

ok, we can discuss everything as long as you want, but only under one condition. You have to watch the videos. and at first, http://www.hwcv.net/energiebilanz-details/ second animation. there you can see, what are the ways the water goes while the floaters rise , second a video that shows what kind of  buoyancy is inside a capillary 

https://youtu.be/N48teo-afOI ( from 9,50 min on ) and as I said, please dont be angry with me, but if you dont watch the video at the beginning of the thread, I do not want to have any more converstaion with you, nevertheless it would be interesting.

Edited February 22, 2017 by deschoe

[exchemist]

ok, we can discuss everything as long as you want, but only under one condition. You have to watch the videos. and at first, http://www.hwcv.net/energiebilanz-details/ second animation. there you can see, what are the ways the water goes while the floaters rise , second a video that shows what kind of  buoyancy is inside a capillary 

https://youtu.be/N48teo-afOI ( from 9,50 min on ) and as I said, please dont be angry with me, but if you dont watch the video at the beginning of the thread, I do not want to have any more converstaion with you, nevertheless it would be interesting.

OK forget it. 

[Maine farmer]

LOL Farming guy 

Not sure what I said that was so funny, but always glad to inspire laughter!

 

Anyway, the video and the explanation are works of fiction.  You may have fallen victim to a hoax, and it can be tough for anyone to admit to being fooled.  I certainly hope that you are not the one trying to get people to invest their money in this.