Apparent contradictions in the Bible

[IrishEyes]

I don't mean to question your parenting skills, but don't kids 'learn to lie' when their parents don't make it 'safe' for them to 'tell the truth'?

My point was that kids don't learn to lie. It is something that is natural for them. Have you ever met a totally honest person, even a child? I doubt it. I know that I have never met one.

Was it 'unsafe' for you to tell the truth to your parents? I know that my home is a safe place for my children, yet every single one of them has lied, even when there was no need to do so, even when the honest answer would have garnered no punishments. That's part of 'human nature', I suppose. :)

[Skippy]

I don't mean to question your parenting skills, but don't kids 'learn to lie' when their parents don't make it 'safe' for them to 'tell the truth'?

No. The answer to the question, "Did you take little Joe's binky" is "No" even when they have the pacifier in their hand. The question is non-threatening, but they still lie when they answer. The notion that "kids 'learn to lie' when their parents don't make it 'safe' for them to 'tell the truth'" is the kind of thinking that screwed up the 60's generation of teens.

[IrishEyes]

At 13, my daughter has learned that telling the truth is better than not telling the truth. But this was something that she learned, not something that was natural. When the 4 year old tells me a blatant lie, with no hint of repurcussions for the truth, I make it very clear that she is being disciplined for not being honest, instead of whatever it was she did. I didn't teach her to lie. She didn't learn it from me. Although I am quite certain that I am not perfect, and I can't say that I have never lied, I am also positive that my children understand that we value honesty in our relationships above most everything else. They have all (started to) learn(ed) that telling the truth is acceptable, and telling a lie is not.

Why they lie instead of being honest is still a mystery to me. I can remember doing the same thing as a small child, until I learned that honesty was better. Nobody taught me how to lie, I just did it. A variety of different flavored dish soaps cured me of most of that though. :rolleyes:

[Mr. Potato Head]

Regarding Christ and God in Christianity, my take is this. It is the only religion where the God gave sacrifice so that we may know Him and He may know us. Every other religion calls for material sacrifices to earn their god's favor. That means something to me. God gave His life to us so that we may give Him ours. You just don't see that elsewhere.

 

With that said, is it fair to say that I consider myself a non-religious Christian? I believe in God through Christ, but I don't go to church. I keep my spirituality personal. Is that bad?

[IrishEyes]

With that said, is it fair to say that I consider myself a non-religious Christian? I believe in God through Christ, but I don't go to church. I keep my spirituality personal. Is that bad?

Well, I personally do not think it is bad. I actually understand it. We did the same thing for a while. For probably very similar reasons. But we just couldn't get past the part where we're told to assemble with other believers. It's in there, and it's what we're supposed to do.

[OpenMind5]

to assemble with other beilvers doesn't exactly mean GO TO CHURCH. To sit down with fellow christians and prais god and to talk about him like we are now...that is assembling with fellow believers...

 

Op5

[Southtown]

Regarding Christ and God in Christianity, my take is this. It is the only religion where the God gave sacrifice so that we may know Him and He may know us. Every other religion calls for material sacrifices to earn their god's favor. That means something to me. God gave His life to us so that we may give Him ours. You just don't see that elsewhere.

Well said! :rolleyes:

[Buffy]

It is the only religion where the God gave sacrifice so that we may know Him and He may know us. Every other religion calls for material sacrifices to earn their god's favor. That means something to me. God gave His life to us so that we may give Him ours. You just don't see that elsewhere.

Well, that's the way it was twisted in the gospels, which made up this nice little story ex-post-facto. Jesus didn't "give" his life any more than Mohammed did. Both were martyrs due to religious persecution, something that's actually rather common in history, its just that only a few get religions named after them. Its disingenuous at the least to make this claim, and of course its a perfect example of why religions have caused so much strife throughout history "my religions the only true one and the rest of you are going to burn in hell, nyah, nyah, nyah." Sociologically and psychologically, religion can be good for so many things its really sad when so much energy is expended on this kind of thinly veiled hatred toward one's fellow man "in the name of God."

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[Mr. Potato Head]

Well, that's the way it was twisted in the gospels, which made up this nice little story ex-post-facto. Jesus didn't "give" his life any more than Mohammed did. Both were martyrs due to religious persecution, something that's actually rather common in history, its just that only a few get religions named after them. Its disingenuous at the least to make this claim, and of course its a perfect example of why religions have caused so much strife throughout history "my religions the only true one and the rest of you are going to burn in hell, nyah, nyah, nyah." Sociologically and psychologically, religion can be good for so many things its really sad when so much energy is expended on this kind of thinly veiled hatred toward one's fellow man "in the name of God."

 

Cheers,

Buffy

 

Gosh, assumptions are so prevalent on this forum that a witless halfbrain like myself might actually renounce what I believe in!

Maybe time travel really does exist. :rolleyes:

 

I don't hate any man, veiled or not, in the name of God. I agree that it's wrong. But I don't believe God encourages hate. I believe that, as you have stated, religion, a creation of man, draws lines. And when lines are drawn they get redrawn until its impossible not to cross them. Then people die. This is a huge reason I stated I am not religious. All God wants you to know is that He's there for you and it's awfully easy to accept Him. I mean, why not, right? As long as you can see past the religious zeal, you will find peace in God.

[Southtown]

Well, that's the way it was twisted in the gospels, which made up this nice little story ex-post-facto. Jesus didn't "give" his life any more than Mohammed did. Both were martyrs due to religious persecution, something that's actually rather common in history, its just that only a few get religions named after them.

That is your belief unless you have evidence.

 

Its disingenuous at the least to make this claim, and of course its a perfect example of why religions have caused so much strife throughout history "my religions the only true one and the rest of you are going to burn in hell, nyah, nyah, nyah."

Except that one religion that says salvation is a free gift for everyone because God loves everyone.

[Buffy]

That is your belief unless you have evidence.

Huh? Uh, its called the Koran. You need evidence that religious persecution leads to murder? Gee, just in Christianity you have Joan of Arc and all those Salem "witches" that were burned at the stake. I could list thousands of examples in all religions if I had the time, but oh wait. You probably think all these are made up stories...nevermind.

Except that one religion that says salvation is a free gift for everyone because God loves everyone.

Judaism, Buddism, Hinduism, etc. etc. etc. all say that salvation is free and God loves everyone. When you make the statement that *only* Christianity provides this you betray an insecurity in your belief in your religion: you feel the need to pump up your belief by denigrating all other religions and as a result show an intense hatred of those that are different than you...and that my friend is *not* Christian. If I were St. Peter I'd send you straight to Hell for making statements like that.

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[Boerseun]

Every other religion calls for material sacrifices to earn their god's favor. That means something to me.

I assume you don't give ten percent of your income to the Church, as asked for in the Bible?

[Mr. Potato Head]

I assume you don't give ten percent of your income to the Church, as asked for in the Bible?

 

Heavens no! I look around and see churches bigger than all the structures around them, churches on every corner it feels like. They don't need my money and certainly God doesn't. I'd rather give that money to my local grocery store so I can stay alive and chat about Christ and space with you guys. :)

[Southtown]

Huh? Uh, its called the Koran. You need evidence that religious persecution leads to murder? Gee, just in Christianity you have Joan of Arc and all those Salem "witches" that were burned at the stake. I could list thousands of examples in all religions if I had the time, but oh wait. You probably think all these are made up stories...nevermind.

Well, I was referring to your claim that the story was twisted in the Gospels, actually. And the Qu'ran has nothing to do with it. But yes, those brutalities happened. Yes, they were bad. No, they were not following the bible. And no, God does not approve. (Matthew 5:21-22,38-40,43-44; Luke 6:35-37)

 

Judaism, Buddism, Hinduism, etc. etc. etc. all say that salvation is free and God loves everyone. When you make the statement that *only* Christianity provides this you betray an insecurity in your belief in your religion: you feel the need to pump up your belief by denigrating all other religions and as a result show an intense hatred of those that are different than you...and that my friend is *not* Christian. If I were St. Peter I'd send you straight to Hell for making statements like that.

Wouldn't that be a kind of religious persecution? LOL

 

And you are totally ignorant of world religions. NONE of the three religions you mentioned offer free salvation. Only Judaism has a God, Buddism practices good deeds to achieve a peaceful "nirvana" society, and Hinduism seeks enlightenment to find divinity within the self. The last two don't even have a god, much less salvation. They merely attempt to do the best with this existence (and any potential repetitions) as humanly possible. But not even Jewish salvation is free. Jews say they have to earn their way to heaven by following God's laws, which not only isn't free, it's impossible. Have a look. I personally do not believe anyone can become perfect, no matter what they do/think/feel/say.

 

It wasn't until Christianity that the unachievable Jewish law was understood as a means of testing and proving the Savior (Galatians 3:22-24.) Similarly, hundreds of years later, Muhammed claims both Jews and Christians have it wrong and that he has the real message. Oddly the only stipulation he adds is belief in him along with God and the prophets (including Jesus.) Whether Islam sounds reasonable or not, I will let you decide. :)

 

How you derive "intense hatred" from a comment that salvation is "free to everyone" is beyond me. :) Kind of like the Salem witch-hunters, ignorance of religion is driving you to violently deprive people of life. (HAHA) If you knew what spiritual torment was really like, you wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy.

[Buffy]

Well, I was referring to your claim that the story was twisted in the Gospels, actually. And the Qu'ran has nothing to do with it.

No, I was saying that your statement that *only* Jesus gave his life is 1) Twisting history after the fact (he was obstinant enough to get himself a death penalty) and 2) isn't true because many others have done the same, and the Koran is your evidence, which is what you asked for. You're denigrating other religions by saying you've got the only truth. That's despicable, and most religious people I know agree that its people who hold "i'm better than you because my religion is the only true one" are what cause conflict and hatred in the world. That kind of thinking is *exactly* what the Osama's of the world think.

NONE of the three religions you mentioned offer free salvation. Only Judaism has a God, Buddism practices good deeds to achieve a peaceful "nirvana" society, and Hinduism seeks enlightenment to find divinity within the self. The last two don't even have a god, much less salvation. They merely attempt to do the best with this existence (and any potential repetitions) as humanly possible. But not even Jewish salvation is free....

Well, I'm beginning to think that for you there is only one definition of God, namely the one in the New Testament, and the kind of "free" you're talking about not only does not cost money but costs no effort--which by the way would mean you could live a utterly sinful life, and as long as at the very last minute you said "I put my faith in Jesus" you get to go to heaven, while absolutely saint-like Jews and Buddhists will suffer 7 years of Tribulation and end up burning in Hell for their faith. What a delightful religious cult you have there (and yes its a cult, only a few Christians I know think anything like what I've seen you describe). I respect your freedom to believe in and express these views, but don't think you won't get thwacked upside the head by some rubes like me who think your views are despicable!

 

Cheers,

Buffy

[Southtown]

No, I was saying that your statement that *only* Jesus gave his life is 1) Twisting history after the fact (he was obstinant enough to get himself a death penalty) and 2) isn't true because many others have done the same, and the Koran is your evidence, which is what you asked for. You're denigrating other religions by saying you've got the only truth. That's despicable, and most religious people I know agree that its people who hold "i'm better than you because my religion is the only true one" are what cause conflict and hatred in the world. That kind of thinking is *exactly* what the Osama's of the world think

o_O What? I said one religion offers free salvation. I did not say Jesus was the only religious martyr. Neither am I suggesting anyone choose a particular religion. I'm simply attempting to clarify the specifics of each as they are mentioned. Are you even trying to understand me?

 

Well, I'm beginning to think that for you there is only one definition of God, namely the one in the New Testament, and the kind of "free" you're talking about not only does not cost money but costs no effort--which by the way would mean you could live a utterly sinful life...

Keep thinking... You've got a ways to go. Sinful behavior is never OK in Christianity. Romans 6:1-6; James 2:14-20; Revelation 2:22 (Just because works can't save doesn't mean they can't condemn.) And I've already demonstrated how Buddism and Hinduism don't have gods (and the myriad of offshoots from each) and the God that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship are the same deity. What other gods are you talking about, besides those derived from physical objects such as the Sun or cows?

[IrishEyes]

Ok, folks, about time to stop this one before it goes any further.

This has been an interesting thread, but it has strayed way off topic. It was originally intended as a way to explore what many consider are inconsistencies within the Bible itself. I think it has developed way past that.

It's time to pick a few of the posts apart and start looking towards starting a new thread.

This one will be closed when I return from my overnighter. If I find it burning, or already in ashes, just letting you know that the screams from the negative Rep I spread will be heard in our hallowed halls for ages.

 

ENJOY!!