Fascism A La Internet

[malform11]

The mandate of specific politics, religion, ideologies and ways of life by the automatic contradiction, condemnation, exclusion, nullification, and suppression of all else is Fascism.
(The condemnation without evidence, by definition, is prejudice....)

In democracy, we are all supposed to have the right to think, to have opinions and ideas which are the same or which are different. Supposedly, when necessary, we gather to discuss various ideas, and vote democratically for the best one.

In "the importance of tradition, in records, in language, in customs, in the rules of social life"...the "Fascist Manifesto" calls for the elimination of individual thought, and the importance of the state, best served by "unification" of everyone into one religion, one set of social conventions, value systems, perceived truths and ideas...."Outside of history, man is a non-entity."...

In the US the medias and society only considers and represents one group, resulting in news and recorded history excluding all but one limited group of people and their generalized, ambiguous and often contradictory beliefs.

"Outside of history, man is a non-entity.."

Fascism exists at most every forum, where it is customary to immediately nullify statements from those outside "the circle" without any facts or evidence, without consideration. A team (or one posing as a team) stomps down all discussions that might take us to a different place. Then they say you don't like it because YOU JUST WANT PEOPLE TO AGREE WITH YOU.."

The first response knee-jerk contradicts. The second quickly responds, acts like there was lengthy intense fair trial, agrees with the contradiction, and officially renders the "group condemnation". Sadly, mindless sheep reading these posts believe in such fodder.

The closed thread symbolizes the tombstone where you were buried...

There were likely many through history who thought like me, but their voices were killed and they themselves were omitted from history.

[OceanBreeze]

In the US the medias and society only considers and represents one group, resulting in news and recorded history excluding all but one limited group of people and their generalized, ambiguous and often contradictory beliefs.

 

 

I agree with most of what you say, but I wonder why you didn't identify what that "one group" is.

 

The mainstream media and the Internet, including most Internet forums, are dominated by the liberals.

 

What we see is Liberal Fascism

 

 

Were you afraid to say it?

[quickquestion]

Recently I have been banned by a science forum, reason given is "uncivility".

The irony is, most of them were bullyish and directly insulting me and name calling me, and I tried to restrain my patience with them despite their constant ad homs and verbal attacks.

 

It is clear what the human race is, a primitive race of tribal chimpanzees, which gang up on anyone who challenges the dogma of their group delusions.

[quickquestion]

1. The FCC only lets people have shows who fit their image of correctness. The differences between Oprah, The view,

Ellen, Today show are very minor. No one is allowed equal time when they make political comments and simplistic

value judgements.

The governments and churches and media indoctrines their interpretation of religion.

They make conclusions, for the benefit of all:

Religion is the only way, and the Judeo Christian religion is the only true religion. Outside of that, there is

nothing good to be found.

Abortion is OK, though "choice" is not mentioned anywhere in the bible.

Marijuana is not bad for you, it is evil..although that is not stated in the bible.

[Marijuana was created before man. After man came evil...as man created evil.]

Illegal cuban cigars are a treat, a status cymbol.

People should have high values, and only take prescription drugs. Opioids, or medicines based on cocaine or

morphine.

Proper decorum means suits and ties and no long hair on men, as stated in the bible.

Mature adults don't write, play musical instruments or paint. Only children or people on TV do that.

................................

Grand gestures made to make us look like a fair society:

Laws that allow a grown bisexual man and your 10 year old daughter to use the bathroom next to each other.

Sorry but I cannot resist.

If they are bisexual...then what significance is there between a daughter or son being in the bathroom.

 

Anyway, I agree with most of your points.

Science has become a math contest to see who can make the most equations. Very little ability to logically debate paradoxes is required.

[Buffy]

I'd love to talk about the common phenomenon of people saying that anyone who doesn't agree with them is a Fascist.

 

What do y'all think?

 

 

I believe conspiracy theorists are creating a conspiracy to distract us from the real conspiracy that is going on, :phones:

Buffy

[Buffy]

Despite your insult...

 

Not sure why you considered it an insult. It was directed at no one in particular.

 

 

...I never seen or read anything about fascism and wanting people to agree with them. can you show me some examples?

 

Well, if you insist:

 

I have said all these things, but a fascist will not aknowlege or recognize any point that anyone outside of their friend circle makes.

 

Or in other words, if people are unwilling to accept views that are at odds with their own experience, they're fascists. 

 

 

I believe you miss the point completely. it is the fascists who want to control, force everyone to accept their truth, and eliminate all those who don't agree, or who are different, or have different taste, religion, politics, style of dress, culture, morals, etc.....

 

Do you think that there's a difference between "disagreeing" versus "forcing" and "eliminating?"

 

What do you think constitutes "forcing?"

 

If a Jehovah's Witness comes to your door and insists on coming into your living room to tell you about the Truth, are you a fascist if you insist that they leave?

 

 

I post to hopefully teach my ideas, but i have learned much by not shutting out negative comments that were honest.

 

Cool! :thumbs_up Do you believe that all people must "not shut out negative comments," or they're worthy of derision? Who might have the right to judge whether or not that unwillingness is legitimate or not? Are there other authorities other than yourself who might make such decisions such that you would accept those decisions?

 

 

When someone has constructive critcism, or a different better idea, I listen. As a productive writer, theorist, I need all the help i can get.

 

What about when that criticism is at odds with your deeply-felt beliefs? How do you judge what criticism is "constructive?" At what point do you decide to discount new information about your beliefs? When you do, how do you feel about the people who provided it to you? 

 

I have no ego, don't give a darn if anyone agrees with me.

 

I'm glad to hear that. Sounds like you won't get angry and call people names when they don't agree with you! :cheer:

 

 

Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured, :phones:

Buffy

[Buffy]

PLEASE argue, DISAGREE about something SPECIFIC. thatis half the reason i am here...

 

Happy to! :cheer:

 

Now the thing is, I posed a bunch of questions to you that you didn't respond to. I take it from the tone of your post that you just take offense to those questions as if they are some sort of attack. I think that you'll find that the rhetorical approach of responding sincerely to such questions is actually the most effective and disarming approach. 

 

I'll leave it to you to decide to do so.

 

Fascists don't argue ANy point, they pretend that there is nothing to argue, render blanket condemnation, nullify you and everything you have said.

 

Actually, fascism itself is a political belief in a merger of the state and the commerce in which those with political and monetary power control all laws. It has traditionally used both racism and absolutist propaganda to stifle and eliminate dissenting opinions, but then so does Bolshevism which prefers ownership of all resources and capacity by the state and controlled by a dictatorship of the proletariat, which is a fundamentally different approach, although both do end up with that "dictatorship" part.

 

So the phenomenon you're talking about isn't really fascism, but that's a handy epithet to throw around that let's you avoid breaking Godwin's Law while still evoking images of death camps run by jack-booted martinets.

 

Seriously, just because you self-published a book of slightly out-of-band cosmological theories is not going to get you sent to the gas chamber. You're no Mark McCutcheon.

 

And honest, that's a compliment.

 

This is how normal people talk off the 'net:

 

1 You listen to the other guy,  without prejudice, or insult.

2 When a point is reasonably made, it is aknowleged. You don't ignore everything said by the other guy.

3 You don't try to shut people out.

4 if you disagree, you explain what, and why. If you can't explain why they are wrong, then YOU don't understand, and have no business rendering a blanket condemnation,.

5 After hearing a long statement, you don't repeat back every word they said, then say something to insult or mock them. (like the full-post quote/blanket condemnation thing)

 

You obviously disagree, but I think I took a good shot at 1, 2, 3, and 4, and really, quoting other posts is considered polite because it actually shows that you're referring to something specific that the other person said.

 

Quite frankly your post seems to indicate you don't read the responses you get very carefully and you don't make much effort to address the objections raised. In fact one might even conclude that you seem to consider any response to be an attempt to stifle you by fascists.

 

But I'm happy to ignore that and engage you.

 

Earth-centric theory, flat-Earth-theory, alchemy, were wrong. However, Even they should not be eliminated from history, a la fascism, or by truth. There is a lesson to be learned. Rather that blindly establishing and enforcing errors for generatins to come by resisting and blindly dismissing all alternatives, and closing avenues of change, we might today learn to open up discussion.

 

Do you think science today is "eliminating from history" Earth-centric, flat-Earth or Alchemy? Have you been to school recently? I have friends who teach at every level of grade school and college today and I can assure you that all three of these and many more are being taught. All three of these fall into the 7th Grade Common Core curriculum as taught in the US.

 

Is there a reason you believe that they are being "eliminated?" They are in fact taught specifically because there are "lesson(s) to be learned" in them. A friend of mine does a module in a high school physics class that uses Alchemy as a mechanism for learning "disproof." Special note is made that Newton was really into it. And the whole point of the module is to raise the question of how do you approach new theories.

 

This is in *high school*.

 

So please understand the consternation that you might generate by insisting that people are being indoctrinated into some "absolute truth" promulgated by "science fascists."

 

The problem of course with epithets is that they're often thrown in a manner that indicates the epithet is the speaker's own weakness.

 

Science was suppose to be: NON-BIASED

 

Yes, and you should note that the important thing here is that that goes for both the "establishment" as well as the "mavericks."

 

I'll take a moment to repeat that Hypography is one of the few science forums that even lets people post Alternative Theories (we have a whole forum for it), but it's precisely because of the fact that whack-job theories need to be debunked somewhere, and "that's what we do." If you see your posts being migrated to one of the subforums there, you'll also note that that's not censorship: we're still leaving your arguments up for analysis by anyone.

 

But also note, we're not a government institution and as such, we're not subject to any "first amendment rights" either. That's not fascism, that's rights of property owners to control their property.

 

 

 

Envy, bleating 'I'm as good as you', is the hotbed of Fascism, :phones:

Buffy

 

 

[Buffy]

Oh please proceed.

 

I'm not a leader here (except by example), more of mom trying to keep the kids from starting a fire in the kitchen or microwaving the cat. It's a dirty job, but some one's got to do it. And it's usually mom.

 

 

I don't go looking for trouble. Trouble usually finds me, :phones:

Buffy

[billvon]

................................

Science:

The multi-billion dollar big bang industry. Although it failed in every prediction it made and is dismissed by

most theorists, it must be presented as universally accepted fact by the media, with no other ideas

allowed...discussions are not tolerated..

Remember that time half your family died of polio?  No?  Me neither.  You can thank science for that.

 

The computer you're posting on?  The car you drive to work?  The weather forecast you rely on to plan your weekend?  The TV you watch?  Again, all science.

 

You can, of course, give all that up because "science failed in every prediction it ever made" and "is dismissed by most theorists."  Will you do that to show that you really believe what you have just posted? 

[exchemist]

People who cheat, lie, or commit crimes want to destroy information, confound evidence, counter-accuse.

People who are innocent, or correct, want all information to be known.

I have no wish to silence those who believe in another religion, politic, or science theory.

I would really like MORE talk to be about the actual details of the big bang theory. I wish people knew about the various big bang incarnations, and their multiple, ambiguous, and contradictory answers for every mystery.

I will argue passionately, and hold observations and proven science to be the real judges. i belive I am right, and shouldn't be told otherwise (be buried, discredited), unless you can specifically say what i am wrong about.

PLEASE argue, DISAGREE about something SPECIFIC. thatis half the reason i am here...

Fascists don't argue ANy point, they pretend that there is nothing to argue, render blanket condemnation, nullify you and everything you have said.

 

This is how normal people talk off the 'net:

 

1 You listen to the other guy,  without prejudice, or insult.

2 When a point is reasonably made, it is aknowleged. You don't ignore everything said by the other guy.

3 You don't try to shut people out.

4 if you disagree, you explain what, and why. If you can't explain why they are wrong, then YOU don't understand, and have no business rendering a blanket condemnation,.

5 After hearing a long statement, you don't repeat back every word they said, then say something to insult or mock them. (like the full-post quote/blanket condemnation thing)

 

Earth-centric theory, flat-Earth-theory, alchemy, were wrong. However, Even they should not be eliminated from history, a la fascism, or by truth. There is a lesson to be learned. Rather that blindly establishing and enforcing errors for generatins to come by resisting and blindly dismissing all alternatives, and closing avenues of change, we might today learn to open up discussion.

 

Science was suppose to be: NON-BIASED

If someone learns the history and philosophy of science, then of course such early ideas as the flat earth (abandoned C. 300BC) and alchemy (abandoned c. 1700AD) are taught. Nobody suppresses them. But, just as in maths you are not taught to solve a quadratic equation by trial and error, when there is a much better analytical way to do it, so in a  science lesson you will not get a digression into alchemy or the flat earth. Nor will you be taught creationism, though that might well be included in  religious studies lessons. There has to be selection in any curriculum. This is not "fascism". 

Edited May 1, 2017 by exchemist

[malform11]

If someone learns the history and philosophy of science, then of course such early ideas as the flat earth (abandoned C. 300BC) and alchemy (abandoned c. 1700AD) are taught. Nobody suppresses them.

 

I didn't say that they were suppressed. They were the accepted model and people like Galileo were suppressed.

 

I was saying that because I'm not a fascist, I don't wish to silence or obscure others, in favor of my ideas.

 

Suppression of ideas, the removal of history is a real and serious thing. Only non-conformists can understand. Everyone who follows the crowd feels free, and have the advantage, get things their way, has the respect. No one stops people from conforming.

 

I have presented enough evidence to prove that there is contradiction and suppression in favor of status quo and sacred cows. The world presents much more evidence than I do.

 

You confound, like when people put the system on trial.  Not by questioning laws and punishment, but by denying that some established concept itself is not valid.

 

I didn't call for every voice to be included in every lesson. i want every voice AVAILABLE, and made known. I only know about counter ideas by looking for them very hard. I will never have a hero I look up to, People like me are not quoted or included in history.

 

 

It seems you guys deny that fascism ever existed, (which itself is like fascism...)

Edited May 2, 2017 by malform11

[malform11]

Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences.

 

 

 

Maybe I should use the name Groupthink , it is the same thing. Fascism seems to be a word which with no one is comfortable.

Edited May 2, 2017 by malform11

[billvon]

 

Suppression of ideas, the removal of history is a real and serious thing. Only non-conformists can understand. Everyone who follows the crowd feels free, and have the advantage, get things their way, has the respect. No one stops people from conforming.

Which ideas are suppressed?

 

I didn't call for every voice to be included in every lesson. i want every voice AVAILABLE, and made known. I only know about counter ideas by looking for them very hard. I will never have a hero I look up to, People like me are not quoted or included in history.

 

?? Every voice is available.  You are posting on a public website making your claims.  No one is suppressing you.  

It seems you guys deny that fascism ever existed, (which itself is like fascism...)

 

Fascism used to mean a form of government.  Now it has no meaning other than a pejorative; it means "that which I think is bad."

[malform11]

 

Which ideas are suppressed?

 

 

?? Every voice is available. 

Out of all the many things that are suppress, The big bang theory is a drop in the bucket, One example....

 

I and others [see "open letter to science" signed by top theorists, observatories, universities...] have made the point that only Big Bang is supported, included, while anything not supportive of Big Bang is silenced.

Halton Arpe was an astrophysicist who's voice was silenced, his funding and his telescope time was taken, he was destroyed publically, and history will not record his achievement..

 

I have talked to many people, all of them believe that the big bang theory is universally accepted, They have never heard of anything else.

 

beyond science even..

I never hear people on TV who think what I and some of my friends think. I can't present my equal time.  There is no media where I hear my ideas.

 

If you support an established religion, then that religion must be yours...of course...

Every public meeting in USA is dominated by Judeo-Christians with no equal  voice for atheists or other religions.

 

Just to suggest that an atheist is not inherently bad, and deserves the same voice in USA as religious people, will get you much argument.

 

 

You are posting on a public website making your claims

wow. SNL did a sketch where they made fun of someone who though they could change the world by texting on social media..

Represented on TV, acknowleged by the general public, taught in schools, recorded in history books, these things are inclusion.

 

Not posting on the 'net followed by twenty people who argue against your every word. Those twenty people are the only readers anyway. History books don't include good points made by posters. if they did, they would be blank anyway because no fascist at the sites will ever recognize their words, and never relent to any logic or truth.

 

The internet, forums, are the most suppressive. Anything non-status quo is systematically destroyed and buried in the muck of good ol boys clubs with self declared patriotic religious moral ethical intellectual high-ground.

 

there is an expression History is "his story."

 

1984: "He who controls the past controls the present, he who controls the present controls the future."

Edited May 2, 2017 by malform11

[malform11]

Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to [status quo], and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity.
GEORGE ORWELL

 

Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences.

 

Fascism, is totalitarian, and the Fascist State - a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values - interprets, develops, and potentates the whole life of a people (14).

 

 No individuals or groups (political parties, cultural associations, economic unions, social classes) outside the State

[malform11]

Metallica/James Hetfield:

 

Do you hear what i hear?

Doors are slamming shut

limit your imagination

keep you where they must

 

do you want what i want

more alternatives

energy derives from both

the plus and negative

 

do you feel what i feel

bittering distress

who decides what you express?

 

Doesn't matter what you see

Or into it what you read

you can do it your own way

if it's done just how I say

 

Independence limited

freedom or choice is made for you my friend

freedom is words that they will bend

freedom no longer frees you

 

2112?RUSH

 

...to think that every facet of our life is regulated

and directed from within..

 

 

We've taken care of everything

The words you hear

the songs you sing

The images that bring pleasure to your eyes

its one for all and all for one

we work together, common sons

No need to wonder how or why.. 

 

We are the priests

of the temples of syrinx

all the great computers

fill our hallowed halls

 

We are the priests

of the temples of syrinx

All the gifts of life

are held within our walls

 

don't annoy us further

we have our work to do

Just think about the average

what use have they for you

another toy to help destroy

the elder race of man

forget about your silly whim

it doesn't fit the plan

 

attention all planets of the solar federation

we have assumed control

Edited May 2, 2017 by malform11

[exchemist]

If someone learns the history and philosophy of science, then of course such early ideas as the flat earth (abandoned C. 300BC) and alchemy (abandoned c. 1700AD) are taught. Nobody suppresses them.

 

I didn't say that they were suppressed. They were the accepted model and people like Galileo were suppressed.

 

I was saying that because I'm not a fascist, I don't wish to silence or obscure others, in favor of my ideas.

 

Suppression of ideas, the removal of history is a real and serious thing. Only non-conformists can understand. Everyone who follows the crowd feels free, and have the advantage, get things their way, has the respect. No one stops people from conforming.

 

I have presented enough evidence to prove that there is contradiction and suppression in favor of status quo and sacred cows. The world presents much more evidence than I do.

 

You confound, like when people put the system on trial.  Not by questioning laws and punishment, but by denying that some established concept itself is not valid.

 

I didn't call for every voice to be included in every lesson. i want every voice AVAILABLE, and made known. I only know about counter ideas by looking for them very hard. I will never have a hero I look up to, People like me are not quoted or included in history.

 

 

It seems you guys deny that fascism ever existed, (which itself is like fascism...)

Not at all. Mussolini certainly existed: that is historical fact. I'm simply pointing out that the example of censorship you gave does not seem to be a very fair one.  

 

One thing bothers me: you talk about the need not to suppress ideas, but then you speak about "people like me". Do I gather that you have had what you think is a negative experience of some kind?  Have you, for example, tried to get an airing for a crank theory of science on other science websites?