Types Of Clocks Which Have Actually Measured Time Dilation

[exchemist]

I was tempted to say a few unkindly things myself -- but AFP tends to come unglued when I do that.   Not worth the trouble.

Yes no point in being unkind. But I was trying to get a discussion going about science and I'm afraid the rate at which AFP churns out nonsense exceeds my willingness to correct it all. It may be that he just wants the attention.

 

Oh well, on the bright side, I've been learning a bit about the big bang in order to straighten out some of the statements made by our Einstein-worshipper on the other thread. So I have not had a wasted day. And I had a chance to revise a bit of spectroscopy yesterday.

[mrg]

 But I was trying to get a discussion going about science and I'm afraid the rate at which AFP churns out nonsense exceeds my willingness to correct it all.

 

It's just a Gish gallop.  As has been pointed out, it's easy for a baby to make a mess, but it can be a lot of work to clean it up.  I recognized early on that AFP was trying to talk way over my head -- when it was obvious he was well under it.

Edited May 31, 2017 by mrg

[AmishFighterPilot]

Nice 4 post circle jerk. If you're not interested in communicating despite my poor use of terms please go away. I don't care for 50 posts about how superior you are certain that you are. If this thread bothers you, stop reading it.

[AmishFighterPilot]

This shows you do not understand E=mc².But I am losing faith that you are interested.

I'm starting to wonder if you truly understand m=e/c2. Do you know what inverse square means?

[JMJones0424]

JMJ, I would be much more generous and say that it is par, and couldn't be anything else.   The only people who ask questions about the nature of time are theoretical physicists, and it is effectively a conversation among themselves.   We may listen in as a matter of curiosity, but it's like listening to an orchestra when we can't play any musical instruments.  We may like the performance or not, but that's all we can say about it.  We can't tell the orchestra how to do a better job if we don't like it, because we don't know the job.

On the contrary, I can review an orchestra without being able to play any instrument.  I can certainly identify when a viola is playing off-pitch, even though I cannot play the viola.  Perhaps your analogy is poor, but I do not subscribe to the notion that the only people who ask questions about the nature of time are theoretical physicists.

 

I am lost by the current gallop presented by AmishFighterPilot, though.  The question posed at the beginning of this thread seems to me to have been answered.

[Super Polymath]

What about a charged white hole?

 

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1981MNRAS.194..161B

A micro black hole wouldn't be "black" for very long, it wouldn't have to lose much material via "Hawking radiation" to destabilize, as it's destabilizing it is a "white hole" in every sense because it's giving off more & more material in the form of energy until it's gone. 

 

This theory we're on suggests that photons, neutrons, neutrinos, the tinier particles; would represent micro black holes evaporating & the material they spew out, igniting the reverse entropy'd hyper-dispersed micro-matter - eventually spreading out into the proton & electron rings around the atom, which themselves would represent micro galactic super clusters orbiting the nucleus of the atom. In this way the nuclei of atoms cyclically switch locations with the electron rings that orbit them faster than our instruments can observe. Because exponentially special relativity follows that, relative to the micro-verses within the atoms, the speed of light to a micro-human civilization would - at least to us - would be the speed of light to the power of the speed of light (exponentially).

Edited June 1, 2017 by Super Polymath

[JMJones0424]

Not only did you, Super Polymath, fail to answer the question you quoted, but you managed to promote a new word salad.  The theory you linked is utterly unsupported by evidence.  WTF do you mean by "photons, neutrons, neutrinos, the tinier particles; would represent micro black holes evaporating & the material they spew out, igniting the reverse entropy'd hyper-dispersed micro-matter - eventually spreading out into the proton & electron rings around the atom, which themselves would represent micro galactic super clusters orbiting the nucleus of the atom. In this way the nuclei of atoms cyclically switch locations with the electron rings that orbit them faster than our instruments can observe. Because exponentially special relativity follows that, relative to the micro-verses within the atoms, the speed of light to a micro-human civilization would - at least to us - would be the speed of light to the power of the speed of light (exponentially)."

 

I can't follow your bullshit generator.  Do you have any evidence at all to support your claims?

Edited June 1, 2017 by JMJones0424

[Buffy]

Looks like this thread has gone down the rabbit hole. It is being moved to Strange Claims due to low information content. If there are interesting sub-topics, please re-raise them in a new thread.

 

 

Amateurs built the Ark; Professionals built the Titanic, :phones:

Buffy

[Buffy]

So long as it doesn't get moved into the silly claims forum. 

 

As with life, there are no guarantees.

 

 

Cats are intended to teach us that not everything in nature has a purpose, :phones:

Buffy

[Super Polymath]

As with life, there are no guarantees.

 

 

Cats are intended to teach us that not everything in nature has a purpose, :phones:

Buffy

Aren't there?

 

If someone jumps off of a skyscraper, will he not fall to his death? 

[Buffy]

Aren't there?

 

If someone jumps off of a skyscraper, will he not fall to his death? 

 

If you have seen "Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom" you would know that the answer to that is "no."

 

 

I keep telling you, you listen to me more, you live longer! :phones:

Buffy

[AmishFighterPilot]

I applaud your curiosity. However I would urge you to proceed with crystal clarity as to what you mean when you introduce concepts and also to be clear about how your ideas relate to current science. I honestly think you would do better to learn more before trying to construct - however you choose to do that. Things are very carefully thought through in science. Resist the temptation to "make sh1t up", as one of my correspondents on another forum use to put it.

If I were writing a thesis here I would consider all this attitude really justified. The problem is, I was trolled from the very beginning when I was trying to ask a simple question. I wasn't trying to make ANY statement by it. Then I got pushed to speculate about why I would even ask such a question and then I got trolled for that. I was NEVER TRYING TO MAKE ANY CLAIMS IN THIS THREAD. If it must be moved to "strange claims" to shut up the trolls so be it. I have been very polite despite the arrogant and obnoxious attitude I have received over and over again since I came here. So far there have been some extremely unwelcoming and uncivil people here, but it is nice to see not everyone is wound up so tight that they can't shift their perspectives a bit just to work out some ideas.

 

If you think I need to learn then you have a couple options; you can provide patient and reasonable answers as you are best able, OR you can ignore it completely for your own peace of mind, OR you can pull an MRG and just waste everyone's time trolling that is no doubt some sad attempt to boost his own self esteem. If I am so pathetic he is truly even more so for spending so much time on me. Anyone who punches down that hard is definitely someone's "scrubber". The science he claims to be the master of but never actually bothers to whip out. He's like that sad kid that goes around the playground telling everyone he has a foot-long dingus; but you'll just have to take his word for it. He probably trolls multiple forums and social media all day posting about how horrible and stupid everyone else is. The more I type here the sorrier I feel for him. Wow, maybe I should let him keep jabbing at me. Poor guy probably needs it.

[AmishFighterPilot]

Looks like this thread has gone down the rabbit hole. It is being moved to Strange Claims due to low information content. If there are interesting sub-topics, please re-raise them in a new thread.

 

 

Amateurs built the Ark; Professionals built the Titanic, :phones:

Buffy

I do agree this has taken a lot of turns. I truly wasn't intending to make any claims. I got trolled so hard that my question only got answered partially by a few people who were trying to follow politely despite the chaos. I realize that this got confusing and derailed in an interesting way, at least in regard to the posts seriously attempting to contribute.

[AmishFighterPilot]

Aren't there?

 

If someone jumps off of a skyscraper, will he not fall to his death? 

Not if he dies before the apex of his jump.

[Super Polymath]

Not if he dies before the apex of his jump.

Ah, well then is death itself not an absolute & inevitable certitude? 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K74czbrjiKo

Edited June 1, 2017 by Super Polymath

[AmishFighterPilot]

A micro black hole wouldn't be "black" for very long, it wouldn't have to lose much material via "Hawking radiation" to destabilize, as it's destabilizing it is a "white hole" in every sense because it's giving off more & more material in the form of energy until it's gone. 

 

This theory we're on suggests that photons, neutrons, neutrinos, the tinier particles; would represent micro black holes evaporating & the material they spew out, igniting the reverse entropy'd hyper-dispersed micro-matter - eventually spreading out into the proton & electron rings around the atom, which themselves would represent micro galactic super clusters orbiting the nucleus of the atom. In this way the nuclei of atoms cyclically switch locations with the electron rings that orbit them faster than our instruments can observe. Because exponentially special relativity follows that, relative to the micro-verses within the atoms, the speed of light to a micro-human civilization would - at least to us - would be the speed of light to the power of the speed of light (exponentially).

I admit I can't always follow where you're going with some of what you say, but I do know exactly what you're trying to say with the evaporating black holes concept. I'm not sure I see the same concept as you on this but I think its an interesting line of thought.

 

I am sure I'll just get accused of more "word salad", but whatever. They should be impressed we Amish have discovered flight and the internet ;)

 

The point you seem to get and a lot of others are having trouble following is that scale is a huge factor. Its so incredibly obvious that as larger aggregates are formed, the slower their aggregate vibration. Light vibrates at about 881,000 times the speed of sound in air at sea level. If there was another medium much smaller and much faster than light, how would one measure such a thing? I haven't received a decent answer on that point. What m=e/c2 shows is that energy is matter and matter is energy. Its more than just "equivalence".

 

Here is where it gets interesting though; John Archibald Wheeler said "Spacetime tells matter how to move, and matter tells space how to curve". The entire concept of 3-dimensional space is defined relativistically by spacetime.In the absence of this trinity, space is non-dimensional, and thus it is unified. Anything "entering" this space would be able to instantly exit anywhere there was available ingress, anywhere in the universe. Instead of getting wild with multiple scales of existence, instead, as mass scales to one end of the spectrum(gravity) it gets annihilated by being driven in on itself, but likewise if you convert matter to radiant energy it is also "annihilated" and radiates away. It seems logical that the quantum data at the core of a black hole would have to reemerge or Hawking is wrong and quantum data can be annihilated. It is quite logical that "energy" aggregates into "mass", and mass aggregates into super mass, and super mass reduces matter and energy to its quantum state. Time dilation rules all of it though with large scale formations moving very slowly in relative terms. So much dilation that we wouldn't even be able to easily tell if the formations on a larger scale are actually just formations on our own smaller scale. Think about that notion for a bit!

[AmishFighterPilot]

Ah, well then is death itself not an absolute & inevitable certitude? 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K74czbrjiKo

If nobody looks is he really alive or dead? Schrodinger's jumper!

 

The funny thing about Schrodinger's anything is that as long as the jumper is still observing his own perspective then he is definitely alive, but if he's dead then to the universe he's both alive and dead until someone looks. If he were alive though, he'd observe and therefore his state of life or death would be known, so he can't be alive too if he's dead, especially from his perspective lol