Trump

[Buffy]

Has Affirmative Action ever solved any problems?

Why yes, yes it has. You're obviously not old enough to remember the days when basically entire corporations where lily white. That kept people of color from getting any economic benefits that might help them get to a point where their kids had no hope of anything other than menial jobs or gangs.

 

You obviously don't understand how affirmative action works. I know there are people who insist that it means "the n****r always gets the job," but that's mostly the folks who've never really known any people of color or human resources managers or admissions officers.

 

Affirmative action means that if there are two equally qualified individuals and your racial/ethnic mix is far out of line with the population, you should *consider* hiring the underrepresentative minority.

 

While some think this is just an emotional desire to be "fair," like a lot of liberal policies, it has a greedy capitalist justification: any social grouping like a corporation or a college suffers just like a small genetic pool from inbreeding. If you want to grow and prosper and benefit everyone in the group, you're going to be much better off if you expand the gene pool and get someone outside your culture to join the mix.

 

All you care about is that some black kid "took" your place in college. The only way you make this go away is to insist that they were dumber than you, and that putting them in that slot was "reverse discrimination."

 

Guess what pal, you're not smarter than they are and you're doing a great job of proving it.

 

And it's actually the Asians who are being discriminated against, because white people are "taking" the slots that they deserve.

 

If we made up those racial stereotypes, then how come the racial stereotypes for Asians is the opposite of those for blacks? Why can't we say that a Asians are big hulking brutes that are always getting into trouble, committing crimes and getting arrested, and make that stick?

Uh, ever seen a Sumo Wrestler?

 

Now, you want to know why there are economic differences between Asians and African Americans? Well, the reason is that for 60-odd years we basically ethnically cleansed them from American society. There was a huge influx of Chinese laborers during and after the California Gold Rush and the building of the Transcontinental Railroad, not because they were smart, but because they were better laborers than white people were. Physically different? Hardly, little wiry guys who were just culturally oriented to not spend their time drinking and gambling and chasing whores.

 

So the white folks really hated them because they started actually making money with their hard work, so we came up with the Chinese Exclusion Act that not only kept new Chinese from entering, but gave a wink and a nod to not just segregation laws, but full-blown look-the-other-way-if-you-lynch-them-or-burn-down-their-houses. It really wasn't much different than Bosnia or Mississippi.

 

The few that stayed were forced to stay in their ghettos where they had to keep up their work ethic, but gee whiz, that also meant that criminal gangs thrived. Even when I was a kid in San Francisco, no business thrived unless the owner was a member of one of the Tongs. So much for the theory that it's only black people who have criminal gangs.

 

 

Also since you live in a neighborhood with very few blacks, you can afford to be intentionally clueless if you never set foot in a black neighborhood, you can hold enlightened liberal values about how all the races are equal and there is not a difference between them other than skin color and facial features. A few black faces in a mostly white crowd doesn't disturb that image, and you can speculate that the reporters that report the local news and shows all the black faces of suspects and arrested criminals, must somehow be racist for taking those pictures of so many black men, and not putting in enough white faces to balance out the picture and make it representative of the population as a whole.

 

"Liberals never see any black people so they don't know that racist stereotypes are *true*!"

 

Dude, most liberals live in cities and we live with and work with them all the time. We're the ones who actually get to see that the exceptions are no differently distributed among the various ethnicities, especially when you start to hear the horror stories about what they had to overcome.

 

The only way you can justify saying that these perceived differences in *averages* are solely due to genetics is if you believe there has been no discrimination since the Civil War or the Civil Rights movement or the Rodney King riots or the Ferguson riots or whatever demarcation point you all try to pick after which there was no discrimination in America.

 

There's only two excuses for thinking that way: Stupidity or Racism. Sometimes it's both. 

 

And given this paragraph, there's a strong argument you're in the last group:

 

Affirmative Action hasn't solved any problems, because if it had, we wouldn't need it anymore. If after 50 years of having it and we still need it, then their case is hopeless. We elected a black president, a point that you have ignored, in a country where we've elected a black president, we don't need Affirmative Action and black people who still have problems with their race after that, can't be helped by it. All Affirmative Action does is force Employers to find a few black faces they can hire to stay within the law, blacks are still ending up in prison in spite of this, so I would argue it is not working.

 

Now the actual content of your posts indicates that you really didn't think any of this up yourself, you're just repeating what you hear on Fox News or Alex Jones or what your friends share on Facebook that was originally published by Sputnik News, so there might actually be hope for you if you try to broaden your sources.

 

I personally don't hold out much hope for that, but hey, I have an open mind.

 

 

The greater portion of the laborers employed by us are Chinese, who constitute a large element of the population of California. Without them it would be impossible to complete the western portion of this great national enterprise, within the time required by the Acts of Congress, :phones:

Buffy

[Maine farmer]

 Also since you live in a neighborhood with very few blacks, you can afford to be intentionally clueless if you never set foot in a black neighborhood, you can hold enlightened liberal values about how all the races are equal and there is not a difference between them other than skin color and facial features. A few black faces in a mostly white crowd doesn't disturb that image, and you can speculate that the reporters that report the local news and shows all the black faces of suspects and arrested criminals, must somehow be racist for taking those pictures of so many black men, and not putting in enough white faces to balance out the picture and make it representative of the population as a whole.

 

I may live in a rural white area, but I have traveled, and I visited a relative in a "black" neighborhood in New York City.  Everyone in that neighborhood treated my relative wonderfully.  I walked all over the city, rode the subway and even took the bus at night, all  without the slightest fear  or even so much as a dirty look.

 

I have been a lifelong conservative, by the way, so you can't blame liberalism for my views on race

 

As for stereotypes, I may not know what racial discrimination feels like, but I have been stereotyped quite a bit because of my families choice of profession.  I was the only farm kid in my class growing up, so while no one dared physically bully me more than once, I did put up with a fair amount of comments that tested my sense of humor and patience, and I had to work a little harder than my classmates to prove to the faculty  that I belonged in my high school calculus class.  I had to actually threaten to drop out of school to get them to allow me a seat in that class where I averaged a solid B.  So I can only imagine how much harder it might have been if my skin were dark.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Farming guy

[TomKalbfus]

I may live in a rural white area, but I have traveled, and I visited a relative in a "black" neighborhood in New York City.  Everyone in that neighborhood treated my relative wonderfully.  I walked all over the city, rode the subway and even took the bus at night, all  without the slightest fear  or even so much as a dirty look.

 

I have been a lifelong conservative, by the way, so you can't blame liberalism for my views on race

 

As for stereotypes, I may not know what racial discrimination feels like, but I have been stereotyped quite a bit because of my families choice of profession.  I was the only farm kid in my class growing up, so while no one dared physically bully me more than once, I did put up with a fair amount of comments that tested my sense of humor and patience, and I had to work a little harder than my classmates to prove to the faculty  that I belonged in my high school calculus class.  I had to actually threaten to drop out of school to get them to allow me a seat in that class where I averaged a solid B.  So I can only imagine how much harder it might have been if my skin were dark.

Affirmative Action is racial discrimination! Discrimination means to treat one differently, it doesn't necessarily mean to treat worse. in order to have Affirmative Action, you have to treat one race differently from another! This is moving in the opposite direction from treating people equally under the law. If you treat people equally under the law, you can't have Affirmative Action.

 

Now I ask you, is being black a disability, like being confined to a wheelchair or being blind or deaf. People with handicaps often have trouble getting a job, the government passes laws requiring an environment that is friendly to handicapped people where ever possible. So if having dark skin is a handicap, what is the cure? Well I think dark skin can be treated much more effectively that paralysis or blindness.

 

But I think being black is not a handicap so it shouldn't be treated as one, which means no special privileges taking into account the disability one supposedly has for having black skin. But we know its not just skin color don't we. Remember the riots of Baltimore, where there any whites participating in the looting and burning? There was an altercation between a cop and a suspect, both were black by the way, but the black community got enraged when they heard about the way "the police" treated the colored folk, in other words, if a black person is committing a crime, the cop isn't supposed to do anything. if a cop tries to arrest somebody for breaking the law, and the suspect puts up resistance and the cop uses physical force and the suspect dies, as it inevitably sometimes happens, then black people go out on the street and start looting and burning stores, particularly black owned businesses. That is a bad habit! It is this tendency which holds many black people back.

 

Also you haven't addressed the fact that we elected a black President twice, Affirmative Action didn't put Barack Obama in the White House, they was no law that said he must be President because he is black! If we're a country that elects a racial minority, and many more liberal and left wing countries have yet to do this, then how could we possibly be racist and thus require a program such as Affirmative Action?

[TomKalbfus]

Why yes, yes it has. You're obviously not old enough to remember the days when basically entire corporations where lily white. That kept people of color from getting any economic benefits that might help them get to a point where their kids had no hope of anything other than menial jobs or gangs.

 

You obviously don't understand how affirmative action works. I know there are people who insist that it means "the n****r always gets the job," but that's mostly the folks who've never really known any people of color or human resources managers or admissions officers.

 

Affirmative action means that if there are two equally qualified individuals and your racial/ethnic mix is far out of line with the population, you should *consider* hiring the underrepresentative minority.

 

While some think this is just an emotional desire to be "fair," like a lot of liberal policies, it has a greedy capitalist justification: any social grouping like a corporation or a college suffers just like a small genetic pool from inbreeding. If you want to grow and prosper and benefit everyone in the group, you're going to be much better off if you expand the gene pool and get someone outside your culture to join the mix.

 

All you care about is that some black kid "took" your place in college. The only way you make this go away is to insist that they were dumber than you, and that putting them in that slot was "reverse discrimination."

 

Guess what pal, you're not smarter than they are and you're doing a great job of proving it.

 

And it's actually the Asians who are being discriminated against, because white people are "taking" the slots that they deserve.

 

Uh, ever seen a Sumo Wrestler?

 

Now, you want to know why there are economic differences between Asians and African Americans? Well, the reason is that for 60-odd years we basically ethnically cleansed them from American society. There was a huge influx of Chinese laborers during and after the California Gold Rush and the building of the Transcontinental Railroad, not because they were smart, but because they were better laborers than white people were. Physically different? Hardly, little wiry guys who were just culturally oriented to not spend their time drinking and gambling and chasing whores.

 

So the white folks really hated them because they started actually making money with their hard work, so we came up with the Chinese Exclusion Act that not only kept new Chinese from entering, but gave a wink and a nod to not just segregation laws, but full-blown look-the-other-way-if-you-lynch-them-or-burn-down-their-houses. It really wasn't much different than Bosnia or Mississippi.

 

The few that stayed were forced to stay in their ghettos where they had to keep up their work ethic, but gee whiz, that also meant that criminal gangs thrived. Even when I was a kid in San Francisco, no business thrived unless the owner was a member of one of the Tongs. So much for the theory that it's only black people who have criminal gangs.

 

 

 

"Liberals never see any black people so they don't know that racist stereotypes are *true*!"

 

Dude, most liberals live in cities and we live with and work with them all the time. We're the ones who actually get to see that the exceptions are no differently distributed among the various ethnicities, especially when you start to hear the horror stories about what they had to overcome.

 

The only way you can justify saying that these perceived differences in *averages* are solely due to genetics is if you believe there has been no discrimination since the Civil War or the Civil Rights movement or the Rodney King riots or the Ferguson riots or whatever demarcation point you all try to pick after which there was no discrimination in America.

 

There's only two excuses for thinking that way: Stupidity or Racism. Sometimes it's both. 

 

And given this paragraph, there's a strong argument you're in the last group:

 

 

Now the actual content of your posts indicates that you really didn't think any of this up yourself, you're just repeating what you hear on Fox News or Alex Jones or what your friends share on Facebook that was originally published by Sputnik News, so there might actually be hope for you if you try to broaden your sources.

 

I personally don't hold out much hope for that, but hey, I have an open mind.

 

 

The greater portion of the laborers employed by us are Chinese, who constitute a large element of the population of California. Without them it would be impossible to complete the western portion of this great national enterprise, within the time required by the Acts of Congress, :phones:

Buffy

 

"Why yes, yes it has. You're obviously not old enough to remember the days when basically entire corporations where lily white. That kept people of color from getting any economic benefits that might help them get to a point where their kids had no hope of anything other than menial jobs or gangs."

 

So you want a law that forces corporations to hire gang members, such as the Crypts or the Bloods? if a guy has a criminal record, do you want him flying your airplane? Do you want a guy with a criminal record as your school teacher or your baby sitter? People with criminal records often have trouble finding jobs because no one wants to hire them, because they don't trust them?

 

A higher proportion of blacks have criminal records, so if you force employers to hire them, you are necessarily putting other people in danger! How many Muslims are airline pilots? How about devout Muslims? Would it make you nervous to fly in an airplane that is piloted by a devout Muslim from a country such as Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, or Syria? You know what happened on 9/11/2001! A bunch of Muslims took flying lessons, they weren't interested in takeoffs and landings, but only in flying the planes, then they got some box cutters, killed the pilot and copilot and flew several airliners into buildings for Allah! Now is it a crime to want to be safe from that?

 

​"All you care about is that some black kid "took" your place in college. The only way you make this go away is to insist that they were dumber than you, and that putting them in that slot was "reverse discrimination.""

 

Having someone in college because they are black rather than because they passed the entrance examination is a big problem. I wonder when we are going to stop treating being black as a handicap and giving such people preferential treatment because of that?

 

Here is an interesting example, lets suppose a corporation hires a certain number of blacks as required by law, and then one of them steals from the company. The executive fires that black employee, but now the corporation was a racial imbalance so he has to fire a number of white employees to rebalance the payroll, is that fair?

 

"Dude, most liberals live in cities and we live with and work with them all the time. We're the ones who actually get to see that the exceptions are no differently distributed among the various ethnicities, especially when you start to hear the horror stories about what they had to overcome."

 

In fact most of the residents of cities are liberal, and it is in cities where black people mostly live and work, so who is discriminating against those black people, are they liberals? Funny thing, blacks live in large cities and they are complaining about racism all the time in cities that are run by liberals. So answer this, do liberal mayors deliberately hire racist cops? Seems to me that most of the problems with cops shooting black people are in those big cities that are run by liberal mayors that are elected by liberal voters in those cities. Are liberal voters racist?

 

"The only way you can justify saying that these perceived differences in *averages* are solely due to genetics is if you believe there has been no discrimination since the Civil War or the Civil Rights movement or the Rodney King riots or the Ferguson riots or whatever demarcation point you all try to pick after which there was no discrimination in America."

 

Of course there is racism and discrimination in America, but no place can ever be perfect, government has done all it can do, the time immediately following the Civil War is past. It is time to turn the page in history and start a new chapter, we don't need affirmative action anymore, the places that needed it most were in the South, but that South is "Gone with the Wind!" It has been 152 years since the end of the Civil War, so its either one of two things, either we're no longer racist and thus Affirmative Action is no longer necessary or else we still are racist and Affirmative Action hasn't helped. So why keep trying something that doesn't work if you claim it hasn't worked? The Definition of Insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. If racism is such a problem in this country, there is a quick and easy solution for any black person who thinks American is hopelessly racist, leave America! Why would any black person who claims that America is such a terrible place, that has treated black people so badly that they don't even want to salute the flag anymore, maybe its time they found a new country if they feel that way! What do you think?

 

I am sick and tired of people assuming I'm racist just because I happen to be white, seems there is nothing I can do to convince them otherwise, so why should I even try? If electing a black President isn't enough to convince most black people that the United States is not a racist country, they should seriously consider finding another country to live in!

[TomKalbfus]

This is rather pointless, I'm not going to convince anyone with reason or logic. People hold onto their beliefs no matter what. If one thinks this is a racist country, no amount of arguing is going to convince them otherwise. I'm just not going to tie myself into knots trying to convince people I am not racist. Politics has a lot of emotional baggage, people have a personal stake in the conclusion that is reached, for physics, not so much!

[sanctus]

I thought I am not gonna reply here anymore, but then I came accross this:

 

Modern day Africa is a mess too! No white men caused that. Why do you suppose that Africa is full of Third World countries, it is a continent rich in natural resources, precious metals, and diamonds, mineral wise at least Africa is not poor, but why are the people in it so poor? Europe decolonized it about 50 years ago, so we no longer have European colonialism to blame, and I think if anything the Europeans helped and not hurt the people of Africa. One has to ask, why was Africa s easy for Europe to colonize in the first place? Africa is after all the original and oldest home of humanity, humans have lived on this continent the longest. Yes I believe in Evolution. What say you, why does Africa have such problems? It is not because we took slaves from the place.

And I don't even know where to start. But dude, you need to read up on some recent history.

"No white man caused that".

Really? Are you serious about this? Just a hint, the borders are straight lines...


"Europe decolonized it about 50 years ago, so we no longer have European colonialism to blame, and I think if anything the Europeans helped and not hurt the people of Africa."

Yeah right, since it was decolonized we Europeans  (and the West) became saints. That is why we do not cancel any debts for instance. And we did not hurt them at all: so ask that all the death people from the war of independence: 720000 in algerian war of independence, or the 300k when France invaded Algeria in the first place, or the 270k. killed when Mussolini thought Italy also needed a colony, or the 90k in Angola's war of independence, the 74k in mozambique's war of independence, etc.  I hope you get the picture.
And I did not even post the numbers of death due to slavery.

So yeah we helped them...and did not hurt them...think again.

And now you might say yeah but in recent years we did.
Right, we bombed Lybia and now we have almost anarchy there. Great help!
WTO does not cancel debts and then we cry about corruption being everywhere.
The only help which can be called as such (as in helping for the sake of helping and for getting monetary returns) comes from religious organizations, everything else (from WTO etc) comes in a form of loan.
And did you ever wonder why anywhere in the world there is people starving while we actually have the resources to feed everyone...why don't we do it then? Answer is sad and simple, it is not worth it moneywise...

The list here goes on, but like they say "ignorance is a bliss", because then you can keep thinking we in the West are good guys.

 

[TomKalbfus]

I thought I am not gonna reply here anymore, but then I came accross this:

 

 

And I don't even know where to start. But dude, you need to read up on some recent history.

 

"No white man caused that".

Really? Are you serious about this? Just a hint, the borders are straight lines...

 

 

"Europe decolonized it about 50 years ago, so we no longer have European colonialism to blame, and I think if anything the Europeans helped and not hurt the people of Africa."

 

Yeah right, since it was decolonized we Europeans  (and the West) became saints. That is why we do not cancel any debts for instance. And we did not hurt them at all: so ask that all the death people from the war of independence: 720000 in algerian war of independence, or the 300k when France invaded Algeria in the first place, or the 270k. killed when Mussolini thought Italy also needed a colony, or the 90k in Angola's war of independence, the 74k in mozambique's war of independence, etc.  I hope you get the picture.

And I did not even post the numbers of death due to slavery.

 

So yeah we helped them...and did not hurt them...think again.

 

And now you might say yeah but in recent years we did.

Right, we bombed Lybia and now we have almost anarchy there. Great help!

WTO does not cancel debts and then we cry about corruption being everywhere.

The only help which can be called as such (as in helping for the sake of helping and for getting monetary returns) comes from religious organizations, everything else (from WTO etc) comes in a form of loan.

And did you ever wonder why anywhere in the world there is people starving while we actually have the resources to feed everyone...why don't we do it then? Answer is sad and simple, it is not worth it moneywise...

 

The list here goes on, but like they say "ignorance is a bliss", because then you can keep thinking we in the West are good guys.

 

 

 

Your looking at it the wrong way, why didn't Africa colonize us? How come no one "discovered" Europe? You are letting political correctness get in the way of your thinking. Europeans aren't saints, but then neither are Africans. Leaving Africa primitive wasn't a choice Europeans had. Europeans were just too competitive for that. Europe is a fractured continent just like Africa is today, all of those European states competed with one another and people within those states competed with each other, it was survival of the fittest and the Africans just weren't fit to compete on this stage, they were primitive. Primitives get exploited, colonized, and conquered, my question is why were they so primitive, it is the oldest continent humans have ever inhabited, the oldest civilization in Africa is Egypt.

 

China left Australia alone, they didn't even know it existed, they had ships capable of exploring it, there was no one except spear chucking natives to stop them if they wanted to colonize Australia, so why didn't they? I think the answer is science, neither the native Africans nor the Chinese had science, their technology didn't advance very far, they discovered gun power by accident, not through some rigorous scientific process, they had a recipe for gunpowder but they didn't know why it exploded, only that it did! Technological advancement in a civilization such as that is slow. You ever watch "Its a Wonderful Life"? What is the premise of that movie? An angel named Clarence grants the protagonist, George Bailey a wish that he was never born, his entire life and all of its effects was erased from history. Now I ask you, what would the World be like if we could erase Western Civilization from history. Lets imagine for a moment that there was no Greece, that Europe was colonized by Africans and Asians, there are no white people. What would this world look like today? It would be primitive and there would be slavery, everything that was invented in the West does not exist. Some people would do Astronomy, this would be so people would know when to plant their crops, priests would carefully track the planets across the sky and say they were communicating with the gods. People would listen to them because they would sound so knowledgeable, the priests keep their secrets and pass on their knowledge only to a select few. Other priests watch the sky, see the clouds and interpret the will of the gods, when they see puffy clouds form, they predict rain, if it rains too much, then they interpret that as the storm god being angry and that more sacrifices are necessary to stave off disaster. Slaves do the hard work, inventions are few and far in between. The Native Americans in the Western Hemisphere are unmolested, except that they molest each other, take each other's tribe members as slaves, and sometimes entire tribes are conquered by other tribes, the women are ravished and taken as slaves to bear more children for the conquering tribe, and sometimes when the priests interpret the gods to be angry, some humans are sacrificed on a stone altar to appease them.

 

Is this the World you want to live in, is it better than the one we live in now?

[Maine farmer]

 

 

But I think being black is not a handicap so it shouldn't be treated as one, which means no special privileges taking into account the disability one supposedly has for having black skin. But we know its not just skin color don't we. Remember the riots of Baltimore, where there any whites participating in the looting and burning? There was an altercation between a cop and a suspect, both were black by the way, but the black community got enraged when they heard about the way "the police" treated the colored folk, in other words, if a black person is committing a crime, the cop isn't supposed to do anything. if a cop tries to arrest somebody for breaking the law, and the suspect puts up resistance and the cop uses physical force and the suspect dies, as it inevitably sometimes happens, then black people go out on the street and start looting and burning stores, particularly black owned businesses. That is a bad habit! It is this tendency which holds many black people back.

 

Regarding your belief that there are more "black" criminals, take a look at http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2015/08/racial_disparities_in_the_criminal_justice_system_eight_charts_illustrating.html  Skin color is not a handicap, but it is a disadvantage.

 

 If racism is such a problem in this country, there is a quick and easy solution for any black person who thinks American is hopelessly racist, leave America! Why would any black person who claims that America is such a terrible place, that has treated black people so badly that they don't even want to salute the flag anymore, maybe its time they found a new country if they feel that way! What do you think?

 

 

When I was a child and heard arguments about the war in Vietnam, some would say"My country, love it or leave it!" and the reply was "My country, change it or lose it!"  Just because things are not as bad as they once were doesn't mean we should stop trying to improve.  America has always been a work in progress.  The first step is recognizing our faults, but some people would rather look the other way.

 

 

 

I am sick and tired of people assuming I'm racist just because I happen to be white, seems there is nothing I can do to convince them otherwise, so why should I even try? If electing a black President isn't enough to convince most black people that the United States is not a racist country, they should seriously consider finding another country to live in!

I never assumed you were racist until I read what you had to say about Africans and people of African descent.  If you don't want to be perceived as racist, try rethinking your beliefs about other races and cultures, and try, I mean really try, to imagine yourself in their position.  

[Buffy]

So you want a law that forces corporations to hire gang members, such as the Crypts or the Bloods?

I explained to you, that Affirmative Action is a preference for equally qualified people. You ignored or were completely unable to comprehend this.

 

Affirmative action is not a law and it is mostly willingly adopted by private organizations because they have willingly decided it is good for them.

 

Having a criminal record is legally recognized as disqualifying for many jobs. You seem to be completely unaware of this. As a society, we have people who have committed crimes who have served their time, and if all businesses follow your irrational fear, the result is that they are unable to find a job and likely go back to crime.

 

Sounds like a plan for a functioning society.

 

Oh but you seem to want to make it worse:

 

A higher proportion of blacks have criminal records, so if you force employers to hire them, you are necessarily putting other people in danger! How many Muslims are airline pilots? How about devout Muslims? Would it make you nervous to fly in an airplane that is piloted by a devout Muslim from a country such as Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, or Syria? You know what happened on 9/11/2001! A bunch of Muslims took flying lessons, they weren't interested in takeoffs and landings, but only in flying the planes, then they got some box cutters, killed the pilot and copilot and flew several airliners into buildings for Allah! Now is it a crime to want to be safe from that?

Gee no. So you don't hire people who are unstable, untrustworthy, have dodgy records.

 

But you have a simpler solution. Since black people are more predisposed to being criminals, and Muslims are predisposed to being terrorists, just don't ever hire them!

 

Great idea.

 

It's also what you call "racist."

 

Having someone in college because they are black rather than because they passed the entrance examination is a big problem. I wonder when we are going to stop treating being black as a handicap and giving such people preferential treatment because of that?

Again proving that you have no idea what Affirmative Action is.

 

 

It is a preference among equally qualified individuals for the purpose of increasing the diversity of the "social gene pool."

 

Keep re-reading that sentence until you understand it's meaning. The entire thrust of your argument depends on you not understanding it, so I doubt you'll even try.

 

Here is an interesting example, lets suppose a corporation hires a certain number of blacks as required by law, and then one of them steals from the company. The executive fires that black employee, but now the corporation was a racial imbalance so he has to fire a number of white employees to rebalance the payroll, is that fair?

 

There is no law, and there are no hard quotas. You are fighting against a fantasy world you've created.

 

 

In fact most of the residents of cities are liberal, and it is in cities where black people mostly live and work, so who is discriminating against those black people, are they liberals? Funny thing, blacks live in large cities and they are complaining about racism all the time in cities that are run by liberals. So answer this, do liberal mayors deliberately hire racist cops? Seems to me that most of the problems with cops shooting black people are in those big cities that are run by liberal mayors that are elected by liberal voters in those cities. Are liberal voters racist?

In order for any of this to make sense, you'd have to insist that the overall liberal tilt in urban areas was identical across the subset who are hiring managers and police and the government establishment. Those groups started out as white and conservative and because Affirmative Action is not a law, they still tend to be. That's just as much true in Danbury as it is in New York City. 

 

If you'd bother to look at the statistics, you'd notice that the police departments that have the most problems are in fact the ones that have resisted integration and are mostly lily white. You appear to be incapable of understanding that the two can co-exist, and that mayors often do not have complete control over their police departments.

 

 

Of course there is racism and discrimination in America, but no place can ever be perfect, government has done all it can do, the time immediately following the Civil War is past. It is time to turn the page in history and start a new chapter, we don't need affirmative action anymore, the places that needed it most were in the South, but that South is "Gone with the Wind!" It has been 152 years since the end of the Civil War, so its either one of two things, either we're no longer racist and thus Affirmative Action is no longer necessary or else we still are racist and Affirmative Action hasn't helped. So why keep trying something that doesn't work if you claim it hasn't worked? The Definition of Insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Your understanding of the last "152 years" is stunningly blind. Jim Crow laws enacted right after the civil war existed right up to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and the south fought tooth and nail against their repeal, trying to pass new laws when their racist laws were struck down by the courts. Anti-miscegenation articles in Alabama's constitution were not rescinded until 2000. The whole kneeling for the anthem movement is about blacks being killed by police in numbers far in excess of their population norms.j

 

So no, racism didn't disappear 152 years ago, and while there's obviously been much progress, resistance to this change has been fought vehemently, first as open insistence that blacks were inferior, and lately by insisting that initiatives to create a change in society that is multi-generational, "has had enough time" and it is unfair "reverse discrimination."

 

But thank you for showing you're a firm believer in both inferiority and unfairness arguments.

 

If racism is such a problem in this country, there is a quick and easy solution for any black person who thinks American is hopelessly racist, leave America! Why would any black person who claims that America is such a terrible place, that has treated black people so badly that they don't even want to salute the flag anymore, maybe its time they found a new country if they feel that way! What do you think?

 

It's actually likely that most black people trace their roots in America much farther than yours. A hundred or so years ago, Germans/Swiss like you would have been told to "go home" for your un-American habits and insistence on speaking German when you felt like it. Fortunately for your ancestors, it was harder to tell you were different, you didn't have slave patrols or lynch mobs hunting you down, and mostly started their own communities in the Midwest. 

 

If you knew anything about African-American history, you'd know that there actually was a "Back to Africa movement" with a long and complex history, and resulted in the country of Liberia.

 

There's not much open land for racist Germans to go back to, and you'll find that while you probably can emigrate to Germany, you'll have to learn German and pledge allegiance to their flag. You'll also find they're a lot more liberal than Americans are. But I strongly encourage you to self deport if you're so mad about people exercising their First Amendment rights..

 

 

I am sick and tired of people assuming I'm racist just because I happen to be white, seems there is nothing I can do to convince them otherwise, so why should I even try? If electing a black President isn't enough to convince most black people that the United States is not a racist country, they should seriously consider finding another country to live in!

 

Oh please do not misunderstand. We don't think you're racist because you're white, we think you're racist because you think that ungrateful black people should just go back to Africa because they've had plenty of time to get over racism in America. Thank you for making your position so clear, because it makes it easy to demonstrate your racism.

 

But to be more scientific, your over-the-top irrational fears do not constitute a reasoned argument. That you're willfully ignorant of so much of American history and even recent events disqualifies your opinions on the topic.

 

None of us expect you to change, in fact in looking at your online history you've been banned in a bunch of places as an unrepentant troll who constantly argues from ignorance. You've made some positive contributions here on other topics and you might yet find a place here, but you've run afoul of both our rules on argumentation as well as generally annoying our members. 

 

 

Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson? :phones:

Buffy

[TomKalbfus]

I explained to you, that Affirmative Action is a preference for equally qualified people. You ignored or were completely unable to comprehend this.

 

Affirmative action is not a law and it is mostly willingly adopted by private organizations because they have willingly decided it is good for them.

 

Having a criminal record is legally recognized as disqualifying for many jobs. You seem to be completely unaware of this. As a society, we have people who have committed crimes who have served their time, and if all businesses follow your irrational fear, the result is that they are unable to find a job and likely go back to crime.

 

Sounds like a plan for a functioning society.

 

Oh but you seem to want to make it worse:

 

Gee no. So you don't hire people who are unstable, untrustworthy, have dodgy records.

 

But you have a simpler solution. Since black people are more predisposed to being criminals, and Muslims are predisposed to being terrorists, just don't ever hire them!

 

Great idea.

 

It's also what you call "racist."

 

Again proving that you have no idea what Affirmative Action is.

 

 

It is a preference among equally qualified individuals for the purpose of increasing the diversity of the "social gene pool."

 

Keep re-reading that sentence until you understand it's meaning. The entire thrust of your argument depends on you not understanding it, so I doubt you'll even try.

 

 

There is no law, and there are no hard quotas. You are fighting against a fantasy world you've created.

 

 

In order for any of this to make sense, you'd have to insist that the overall liberal tilt in urban areas was identical across the subset who are hiring managers and police and the government establishment. Those groups started out as white and conservative and because Affirmative Action is not a law, they still tend to be. That's just as much true in Danbury as it is in New York City. 

 

If you'd bother to look at the statistics, you'd notice that the police departments that have the most problems are in fact the ones that have resisted integration and are mostly lily white. You appear to be incapable of understanding that the two can co-exist, and that mayors often do not have complete control over their police departments.

 

 

Your understanding of the last "152 years" is stunningly blind. Jim Crow laws enacted right after the civil war existed right up to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and the south fought tooth and nail against their repeal, trying to pass new laws when their racist laws were struck down by the courts. Anti-miscegenation articles in Alabama's constitution were not rescinded until 2000. The whole kneeling for the anthem movement is about blacks being killed by police in numbers far in excess of their population norms.j

 

So no, racism didn't disappear 152 years ago, and while there's obviously been much progress, resistance to this change has been fought vehemently, first as open insistence that blacks were inferior, and lately by insisting that initiatives to create a change in society that is multi-generational, "has had enough time" and it is unfair "reverse discrimination."

 

But thank you for showing you're a firm believer in both inferiority and unfairness arguments.

 

 

It's actually likely that most black people trace their roots in America much farther than yours. A hundred or so years ago, Germans/Swiss like you would have been told to "go home" for your un-American habits and insistence on speaking German when you felt like it. Fortunately for your ancestors, it was harder to tell you were different, you didn't have slave patrols or lynch mobs hunting you down, and mostly started their own communities in the Midwest. 

 

If you knew anything about African-American history, you'd know that there actually was a "Back to Africa movement" with a long and complex history, and resulted in the country of Liberia.

 

There's not much open land for racist Germans to go back to, and you'll find that while you probably can emigrate to Germany, you'll have to learn German and pledge allegiance to their flag. You'll also find they're a lot more liberal than Americans are. But I strongly encourage you to self deport if you're so mad about people exercising their First Amendment rights..

 

 

 

Oh please do not misunderstand. We don't think you're racist because you're white, we think you're racist because you think that ungrateful black people should just go back to Africa because they've had plenty of time to get over racism in America. Thank you for making your position so clear, because it makes it easy to demonstrate your racism.

 

But to be more scientific, your over-the-top irrational fears do not constitute a reasoned argument. That you're willfully ignorant of so much of American history and even recent events disqualifies your opinions on the topic.

 

None of us expect you to change, in fact in looking at your online history you've been banned in a bunch of places as an unrepentant troll who constantly argues from ignorance. You've made some positive contributions here on other topics and you might yet find a place here, but you've run afoul of both our rules on argumentation as well as generally annoying our members. 

 

 

Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson? :phones:

Buffy

 

​My Ancestors where the name "Kalbfus" came from, immigrated to the 13 British Colonies in the 1750s, from a place called Bavaria in the Holy Roman Empire. There was a Thomas B Kalbfus who fought in the Civil War for the North, specifically for the state of Pennsylvania, he fought to save this country, and perhaps to free the slaves as well. I am not sure that if we could bring him back to live, that he would agree with you that those black football players were not disrespecting this Country that he fought for during the Civil War.

 

http://www.pacivilwar.com/cwpa06i.html

 

During the Civil War, freed slaves fought for the United States of America, they were proud to do that, unlike certain football players we are presently discussing. The History of the United States is one of progress. We didn't invent slavery, and in fact if we weren't here, slavery would still probably exist amongst the native American tribes of North America, we got rid of it!

[Buffy]

​My Ancestors where the name "Kalbfus" came from, immigrated to the 13 British Colonies in the 1750s, from a place called Bavaria in the Holy Roman Empire.

Yes and you may be unaware of the fact that "Bavaria" is in present day Germany.

 

You may also be unaware that Americans are famous for discriminating against people based on their last names, which give away their heritage.

 

I can pretty much guarantee you that during the Revolutionary War, your ancestor was suspected of being a Hessian, even if he was from Bavaria and not Hesse-Kassel.

 

After the Civil War, the large influx of Germans and the consequent animosity against them probably wasn't great for those ancestors either.

 

Point being here, you keep talking about people who you think should "just leave" when-whether or not your actual ancestors were here pre-Revolution, they very likely got treated to a dose of that from the snooty Mayflower folks.

 

And the fact is that even at that 1750 date, a very large chunk of the African-American population in the US has ancestors that pre-date yours.

 

Seriously, if you don't like the First Amendment, why don't you move back to Bavaria?

 

I say that as someone who traces back an ancestor to the Mass Bay Colony in 1680, so I have "more" of a right to be here than you.

 

 

There was a Thomas B Kalbfus who fought in the Civil War for the North, specifically for the state of Pennsylvania, he fought to save this country, and perhaps to free the slaves as well. I am not sure that if we could bring him back to live, that he would agree with you that those black football players were not disrespecting this Country that he fought for during the Civil War.

 

Gee, my great-great-grandpappy owned slaves on his plantation in Greensboro, North Carolina. Does that mean I want slavery by definition? You have no idea what your Civil War would think. And how does what your ancestor did make your beliefs today unassailable?

 

You continue to force your interpretation of the protest on others, which is not only inconsistent with the facts, but your obstinance in the face of those facts is a demonstration of your unwillingness to have any sort of rational discussion about it.  

 

During the Civil War, freed slaves fought for the United States of America, they were proud to do that, unlike certain football players we are presently discussing. 

 

So what's your excuse? If fighting in a war--and I assume if you were actually a veteran you would have bragged about it by now--is the only way you can prove your patriotism, why do you have any right to say anything?

 

And I hate to break it to you, but many freed slaves fought for the North because there was good money in it, in an environment in which even in the North, their chances of getting a good salary were next to nil.

 

The History of the United States is one of progress. We didn't invent slavery, and in fact if we weren't here, slavery would still probably exist amongst the native American tribes of North America, we got rid of it!

 

And those Native Americans wish you would leave too. 

 

Hey that's a handy excuse though: "I didn't invent murder, so even though I killed someone, I'm not guilty!"

 

 

The obstinacy of cleverness and reason is nothing to the obstinacy of folly and inanity, :phones:

Buffy

[TomKalbfus]

 

Yes and you may be unaware of the fact that "Bavaria" is in present day Germany.

 

You may also be unaware that Americans are famous for discriminating against people based on their last names, which give away their heritage.

 

I can pretty much guarantee you that during the Revolutionary War, your ancestor was suspected of being a Hessian, even if he was from Bavaria and not Hesse-Kassel.

 

After the Civil War, the large influx of Germans and the consequent animosity against them probably wasn't great for those ancestors either.

 

Point being here, you keep talking about people who you think should "just leave" when-whether or not your actual ancestors were here pre-Revolution, they very likely got treated to a dose of that from the snooty Mayflower folks.

 

And the fact is that even at that 1750 date, a very large chunk of the African-American population in the US has ancestors that pre-date yours.

 

Seriously, if you don't like the First Amendment, why don't you move back to Bavaria?

 

I say that as someone who traces back an ancestor to the Mass Bay Colony in 1680, so I have "more" of a right to be here than you.

 

 

 

Gee, my great-great-grandpappy owned slaves on his plantation in Greensboro, North Carolina. Does that mean I want slavery by definition? You have no idea what your Civil War would think. And how does what your ancestor did make your beliefs today unassailable?

 

You continue to force your interpretation of the protest on others, which is not only inconsistent with the facts, but your obstinance in the face of those facts is a demonstration of your unwillingness to have any sort of rational discussion about it.  

 

 

So what's your excuse? If fighting in a war--and I assume if you were actually a veteran you would have bragged about it by now--is the only way you can prove your patriotism, why do you have any right to say anything?

 

And I hate to break it to you, but many freed slaves fought for the North because there was good money in it, in an environment in which even in the North, their chances of getting a good salary were next to nil.

 

 

And those Native Americans wish you would leave too. 

 

Hey that's a handy excuse though: "I didn't invent murder, so even though I killed someone, I'm not guilty!"

 

 

The obstinacy of cleverness and reason is nothing to the obstinacy of folly and inanity, :phones:

Buffy

 

But we abolished slavery when we won the Civil War, that would never have happened if white people had never come to North America. You know we did not bring slavery to the New World, it was already established when Christopher Columbus got there. The Native Americans had their own slaves, and if white people had not shown up, they would still have slavery today. It was Western Culture that developed an objection to slavery in general. All the other cultures besides us had slavery, to them slavery was perfectly normal, most of them didn't want to be slaves, but they had no objection to someone else being a slave.

 

When We abolished slavery, we made slavery not just illegal for white slave owners, but it was also outlawed for Native Americans as well, if we were not here, the Native Americans would most likely have not abolished slavery among their own tribes.

 

Lincoln had an idea, that some people today would call racist, he said that the blacks that were freed should be returned to Africa, because as he foresaw, white people and black people would have generations of enmity after slavery, and was he wrong about that?

 

Liberals want to say there is still racism in America and thus all the big government interference needs to remain, thus they can never admit to any of their programs having worked. But if they don't work, why keep doing it? So long as there are blacks and whites living in close proximity to each other, one can say the other is racist, if they are far apart and their is no contact, they can't! The problems with segregation in the South was that blacks were separated but always in close proximity to whites, thus the racism would never go away. White people were stupid to have slavery in the first place, they were stupid to bring slaves to North America, they brought a lot of racism with those slaves, and big government programs to ameliorate racism, you have blacks in ghettos complaining about racism, about how their still is racism, no matter what, not even if we elect a black president! I would like it to end! Simple as that, but so long as we're close together the cycle of blame continues. Blacks need a handy white person to call racism to explain why they didn't get that job, it is never their fault, as it is always easier to blame the other. Can't do it in Africa!

[Buffy]

But we abolished slavery when we won the Civil War, that would never have happened if white people had never come to North America. You know we did not bring slavery to the New World, it was already established when Christopher Columbus got there. The Native Americans had their own slaves, and if white people had not shown up, they would still have slavery today. It was Western Culture that developed an objection to slavery in general. All the other cultures besides us had slavery, to them slavery was perfectly normal, most of them didn't want to be slaves, but they had no objection to someone else being a slave.

"We didn't know about slavery! We learned it from the Native Americans!"

 

Hey, was it Obama's fault too?

 

Have you heard of Rome? It's kinda in the "west" as in "Western Civilization."

 

The only reason slavery died out *in Europe*, was that the Catholic and Orthodox churches insisted on not allowing Christians to be "slaves" due to their treatment in the Roman Empire.

 

But that was simply replaced by "Serfdom" in the middle ages, which quite frankly wasn't much better.

 

Moreover, as the European powers colonized the world, they had no trouble making slaves of the people they conquered. The English, the Dutch, the Spanish, the French, they all had slaves, although in many cases they didn't *call* them that, and countries like Spain were very creative in simply turning them over to the *Church* for "re-education" that often involved labor loaned out to whoever needed it.

 

Your knowledge of history is, to be charitable, laughable.

 

 

When We abolished slavery, we made slavery not just illegal for white slave owners, but it was also outlawed for Native Americans as well, if we were not here, the Native Americans would most likely have not abolished slavery among their own tribes.

I know those Native Americans who were enslaved were sure glad we freed them before we killed almost all of them off!!!

 

Lincoln had an idea, that some people today would call racist, he said that the blacks that were freed should be returned to Africa, because as he foresaw, white people and black people would have generations of enmity after slavery, and was he wrong about that?

Yes, I mentioned the Back-to-Africa movement in an early post. I'm glad a little tiny bit of it stuck.

 

You obviously did no research whatsoever into what it really was, how many different groups advocated or argued against it. Lincoln was a member of the American Colonization Society which was founded before his birth, so no he didn't "have an idea."

 

The society was founded on racist grounds, basically with the idea that having Free Slaves would cause problems:

 

• African-Americans were morally lax. It was claimed they were licentious beings who would draw whites into their savage, unrestrained ways. The fears of an intermingling of the races were strong and underlay much of the outcry for removal.
• African-Americans had a tendency toward criminality.[12]
• African-Americans were supposed mental inferiors, contending it made them unfit for the duties of citizenship and incapable of real improvement.
• Economic arguments were also advanced, most notably by those who said that the presence of free blacks threatened the jobs of working-class whites in the North.

 

So gee whiz, I guess it was a good thing? There were black groups that argued for it and against it, precisely because that's the way the whites viewed them.

 

Liberals want to say there is still racism in America....blah blah blah....

You seem so conflicted about this. Do you think there's any racism or not? And is the only racism "outspoken hatred" or are people like you who would agree with the above list (and you have in multiple posts here) racist too? And if they're not, should black people just put up with you thinking they're "criminals" or "unpatriotic?"

 

 

Slavery is not the only question which comes up in this controversy. There is a far more important one to you, and that is, what shall be done with the free negro? :phones:

Buffy

[TomKalbfus]

"We didn't know about slavery! We learned it from the Native Americans!"

 

Hey, was it Obama's fault too?

 

Have you heard of Rome? It's kinda in the "west" as in "Western Civilization."

 

The only reason slavery died out *in Europe*, was that the Catholic and Orthodox churches insisted on not allowing Christians to be "slaves" due to their treatment in the Roman Empire.

 

But that was simply replaced by "Serfdom" in the middle ages, which quite frankly wasn't much better.

 

Moreover, as the European powers colonized the world, they had no trouble making slaves of the people they conquered. The English, the Dutch, the Spanish, the French, they all had slaves, although in many cases they didn't *call* them that, and countries like Spain were very creative in simply turning them over to the *Church* for "re-education" that often involved labor loaned out to whoever needed it.

 

Your knowledge of history is, to be charitable, laughable.

 

 

 

I know those Native Americans who were enslaved were sure glad we freed them before we killed almost all of them off!!!

 

 

Yes, I mentioned the Back-to-Africa movement in an early post. I'm glad a little tiny bit of it stuck.

 

You obviously did no research whatsoever into what it really was, how many different groups advocated or argued against it. Lincoln was a member of the American Colonization Society which was founded before his birth, so no he didn't "have an idea."

 

The society was founded on racist grounds, basically with the idea that having Free Slaves would cause problems:

 

 

So gee whiz, I guess it was a good thing? There were black groups that argued for it and against it, precisely because that's the way the whites viewed them.

 

 

You seem so conflicted about this. Do you think there's any racism or not? And is the only racism "outspoken hatred" or are people like you who would agree with the above list (and you have in multiple posts here) racist too? And if they're not, should black people just put up with you thinking they're "criminals" or "unpatriotic?"

 

 

Slavery is not the only question which comes up in this controversy. There is a far more important one to you, and that is, what shall be done with the free negro? :phones:

Buffy

 

"We didn't know about slavery! We learned it from the Native Americans!"

 

Hey, was it Obama's fault too?

 

The Aztecs had slavery before the Europeans got here.

Have you heard of Rome? It's kinda in the "west" as in "Western Civilization."

 

The only reason slavery died out *in Europe*, was that the Catholic and Orthodox churches insisted on not allowing Christians to be "slaves" due to their treatment in the Roman Empire.

 

A lot of black slaves were Christian.

Moreover, as the European powers colonized the world, they had no trouble making slaves of the people they conquered. The English, the Dutch, the Spanish, the French, they all had slaves, although in many cases they didn't *call* them that, and countries like Spain were very creative in simply turning them over to the *Church* for "re-education" that often involved labor loaned out to whoever needed it.

 

Europeans did no different that what a lot of Native Americans already did to each other. Native Americans weren't saints, and some practiced Human sacrifice! If we had no trouble enslaving Native Americans, would not have brought black Africans over.

Yes, I mentioned the Back-to-Africa movement in an early post. I'm glad a little tiny bit of it stuck.

 

You obviously did no research whatsoever into what it really was, how many different groups advocated or argued against it. Lincoln was a member of the American Colonization Society which was founded before his birth, so no he didn't "have an idea."

 

The society was founded on racist grounds, basically with the idea that having Free Slaves would cause problems:

 

The reason is unimportant, what effect it would have had would have been to separate blacks from whites, particularly ex black slaves from whites so that resentment would die from absence, its very simple, without the white man around, the black man would have no scapegoat to blame for his failures, he would have to pull himself up by his own bootstraps rather than say, "Woe is me, I'm surrounded by white racists who keep oppressing me, there is nothing for me to do but rob a convenience store since I can't earn an honest living because of all those white racists preventing me from getting a decent job! Its not my fault, there are just too many white racists, oh woe is me!"

So gee whiz, I guess it was a good thing? There were black groups that argued for it and against it, precisely because that's the way the whites viewed them.

 

Why would they want to be around white people? Of what benefit would it be to them to be around white people, of whom they call unconsciously racist and refuse to stand for the National Anthem because of that? If this is such a terrible country that oppresses black people, then why did they stay? Also is Africa "Hell on Earth" what is so terrible about being in Africa? Lots of people call Africa home. Does a black student learn better if a white student is sitting next to him? Is a school that is all black always inferior to a school that includes white people? If blacks love white so much, then why do they live in ghettos in our inner cities? They could just as easily live in a black community in Africa with no white scapegoats to blame for all their troubles.

You seem so conflicted about this. Do you think there's any racism or not? And is the only racism "outspoken hatred" or are people like you who would agree with the above list (and you have in multiple posts here) racist too? And if they're not, should black people just put up with you thinking they're "criminals" or "unpatriotic?"

 

If they don't want us to think that, then why use disrespecting the flag as their means to protest racism? The fact is our jails are full of black people in higher percentages that in the general population at large. If black people really think they are only being arrested because they are black and not because of the crimes they commit, then they should go to Africa and see if they end up in jail there too. If there is distrust between the races, then why should we hang around each other? Africans have a place called Africa, they can go their if they get tired of our supposed racism, but hey, if they still don't get that job they always wanted, they can look themselves in the mirror instead of finding a convenient white scapegoat.

Slavery is not the only question which comes up in this controversy. There is a far more important one to you, and that is, what shall be done with the free negro?

 

Why should people who don't like this country be here? Why did Reverend Jerimiah Wright stay in America after his "God Damn America" sermon? He visited Africa I hear, but he then  came right back to what he calls "racist America" to complain about how it oppressed black people some more. Now I ask you, what did Moses do in the Bible with the freed Hebrew slaves? Did he seek ways  for Hebrews to live together with Egyptians so they could live in harmony or did he take them to the promised land? But I guess Africa is not such a great place to be is it! Even without white people oppressing blacks there, it still has a high level of poverty and crime.

[Buffy]

Wow. That last post is just, well, stunning. It's a real testament to full blown segregation and even ethnic cleansing.

 

Good job on confirming what I postulated and you ignored.

 

Now since this sort of thing is annoying even to our conservative members, you're going to have to decide whether you'd like to pontificate without really responding on political topics, or if you want to stay for the science.

 

Up to you.

 

 

Even the most despicable person is still a human being, :phones:

Buffy

[exchemist]

Blimey, a real Dr Strangelove moment: "Heil Hitler, I mean good evening." :)

[TomKalbfus]

Wow. That last post is just, well, stunning. It's a real testament to full blown segregation and even ethnic cleansing.

 

Good job on confirming what I postulated and you ignored.

 

Now since this sort of thing is annoying even to our conservative members, you're going to have to decide whether you'd like to pontificate without really responding on political topics, or if you want to stay for the science.

 

Up to you.

 

 

Even the most despicable person is still a human being, :phones:

Buffy

I am simply using logic and reason that is all. Segregation is how people want to solve the violence in the Middle East, liberals are all for segregation there, they complain about Jews building settlements in the West Bank. I am fine living with black Americans if they are patriotic and loyal to the country, if they are not, instead of them sticking around causing trouble, or plotting a revolution to carve out their own territory for black liberation, I would suggest they find their own country in Africa. I am not much into unnecessary Revolution and violence in our nuclear age. I want a peaceful planet.