Trump

[serenesam]

Just for some perspective, not that it means anything to the flaming liberal media of course :cussing:

Number of people pardoned by President Clinton = 456

Number of people pardoned by President Obama = 1,927

Number of people pardoned by President Trump = 1 (so far)

Are conservatives/right-wingers generally more punitive? Aren't they also reflecting more of a masculine persona? 

[Turtle]

Are conservatives/right-wingers generally more punitive? Aren't they also reflecting more of a masculine persona?

:lol: Yes, more punitive and so they may think more macho. I already posted on the psychology of right-wing authoritarians and you are free to continue to ignore it.

 

Trump's popularity continues to sag as more conservatives jump ship. Sad little clown. :Clown:

[Buffy]

Just for some perspective, not that it means anything to the flaming liberal media of course :cussing:

Number of people pardoned by President Clinton = 456

Number of people pardoned by President Obama = 1,927

Number of people pardoned by President Trump = 1 (so far)

 

Well, of course meaninglessly garbled statistics sourced solely from InfoWars are not going to matter to any rational media, liberal or not.

 

Now for the rest of you, Ocean's numbers go wrong in two ways:

• They confuse the difference between a "Pardon" -- an absolution of guilt that protects the pardonee from further prosecution (but not legal liability) -- and a "Commutation of Sentence" -- which simply cuts short the remaining time on their time in prison.
• Pardons because of their controversy are in fact mostly granted at the very end of a presidency, not so much to protect the president's legacy but to minimize the collateral damage to the president's party (and this is something that *both* parties do).

The number shown above for Obama is the number of *Commutations of Sentence*, not pardons. For the record, here is a list of actual pardons by president over the last century:

 

• Franklin D. Roosevelt: 2,819 pardons
• Harry S. Truman: 1,913 pardons
• Dwight D. Eisenhower: 1,110 pardons
• Woodrow Wilson: 1,087 pardons
• Lyndon Johnson: 960 pardons
• Richard Nixon: 863 pardons
• Calvin Coolidge: 773 pardons
• Herbert Hoover: 672 pardons
• Theodore Roosevelt: 668 pardons
• Jimmy Carter: 534 pardons
• John F. Kennedy: 472 pardons
• Bill Clinton: 396 pardons
• Ronald Reagan: 393 pardons
• William H. Taft: 383 pardons
• Gerald Ford: 382 pardons
• Warren Harding: 300 pardons
• William McKinley: 291 pardons
• Barack Obama: 212 pardons
• George W. Bush: 189 pardons
• George H.W. Bush: 74 pardons

Source: "Number of Pardons By President" Tom Murse, ThoughtCo. 8/7/17

 

So in fact, Obama pardoned fewer than all but the Bushes. The reason for the large number of commutations he granted was a direct result of the passage of marijuana legalization laws, and the record number of requests for commutations of non-violent, drug-related convictions.

 

There are many things that make the Arpaio pardon stand out: Pardons are typically given *after* a sentence is completely or partially served, and are normally only for a specific conviction. The only pardon anyone has been able to point to where it came before a day was served and was for "all offenses related to a set of charges" is when Ford pardoned Nixon, which in spite of whether or not you think Nixon deserved to be convicted of his many alleged crimes, did serve a legitimate goal of ending "America's Long Nightmare" as Ford said at the time.

 

Moreover, a pardon is an admission of guilt, which means it protects from further prosecution from the government, but it can open the floodgates on civil suits, something that Marc Rich, bête noire of right-wingnuts, was hit with and kept him in exile until he died.

 

And while Trump said Arpaio was "just convicted for doing his job" any look at Arpaio's record leaves none but real racists thinking what he did was "doing his job." Here is a good summary of Arpaio's record, left as an exercise for those readers not predisposed to disbelieve anything that doesn't fit into their world view as #librulfakenews.

 

Worse for Trump though, he felt so strongly about Arpaio that he's probably committed Obstruction of Justice for him, prior to the perfectly legal pardon...not smart.

 

 

I already have a concentration camp. It’s called Tent City, :phones:

Buffy

[serenesam]

:lol: Yes, more punitive and so they may think more macho. I already posted on the psychology of right-wing authoritarians and you are free to continue to ignore it.

 

Trump's popularity continues to sag as more conservatives jump ship. Sad little clown. :Clown:

I already saw some article about Alt-Righters and the correlation to Dark Triad traits. It's actually not that surprising because speaking in an analogous way, you really need both The Yin and The Yang just like you need two wings of a bird to fly well which would include both a left wing and a right wing. This is why I'm an "Independent" if that makes any sense. 

 

The funny thing is that it's still possible Trump will get re-elected in 2020. He was already quite controversial prior to getting elected for his first term. 

[serenesam]

Worse for Trump though, he felt so strongly about Arpaio that he's probably committed Obstruction of Justice for him, prior to the perfectly legal pardon...not smart.

I doubt Trump will face charges of obstructing justice though. Pardoning Arpaio is a separate issue.

 

IMHO, Bill Clinton was probably the last greatest Democratic President ever. I never liked Obama. 

Edited August 27, 2017 by serenesam

[Buffy]

I doubt Trump will face charges of obstructing justice though.

 

Well he may not be charged for anything, but quite frankly "obstructing justice" is to most politicians what "tax evasion" was to Al Capone. Hardly the worst offence, but the one that will get them out of office the quickest.

 

Everyone is pretty sure President Pence (or President Ryan if Pence gets nailed in the Russia investigation) will do what Ford did for Nixon, "for the good of the country."

 

Quite frankly, looking at all the other possible charges, the most likely thing for Trump to end up getting charged with is money laundering and the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act violations.

 

Pardoning Arpaio is a separate issue.

 

Uh, that's what I said. It doesn't help him. Not sure you understand any of this, but really, I'm only responding so that your uh, "misconceptions" don't go unanswered.

 

 

You’d be surprised what people will accept once you insist two or three times running that they have seen what you tell them they have seen, :phones:

Buffy

[serenesam]

Quite frankly, looking at all the other possible charges, the most likely thing for Trump to end up getting charged with is money laundering and the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act violations.

Boy, you must really, really not like him (Trump). LOL!

 

Do you like hope he'll get charged with something? 

 

Because that's what some people were hoping for with Hillary (the folks that don't like her). 

[Buffy]

Boy, you must really, really not like him (Trump). LOL!

 

Do you like hope he'll get charged with something? 

 

Because that's what some people were hoping for with Hillary (the folks that don't like her). 

 

Dear, you have no idea what he's done. Your very limited news sources put him up on a pedestal and paint him as a choirboy.

 

It's not a matter of hope, it will simply be a matter of facts, because what y'all have been claiming Hillary and Obama did, which they haven't, Trump actually has.

 

I doubt that even when Mueller starts issuing indictments and recommendations to Congress that you'll believe any of it, because Alex Jones will tell you not to.

 

I'd ask you if you wanted to discuss what crimes he appears to have committed (outlined in my post above), but you just seem to prefer to deny reality, so it's probably a waste of time.

 

 

Never try to teach a pig to sing, :phones:

Buffy

[serenesam]

Didn't Trump say he wasn't going to take the yearly Presidential salary of 400K per year? 

 

I don't know, it just makes no sense for him to want to obtain money illegally. 

 

I doubt that even when Mueller starts issuing indictments and recommendations to Congress that you'll believe any of it, because Alex Jones will tell you not to.

Stefan Molyneux might do the same too. 

[Deepwater6]

The guy is like 85 years old, I suspect he's not afraid of getting screwed....or even death.....

I read this morning that the only other time in history that a president has pardoned someone before they were sentenced was Ford for Nixon. I wonder how things would have gone for Nixon if he and or his staff were embroiled in secret meetings with Russia about elections instead of Watergate?

 

The funny part is, the right continues to cry foul on the liberal press, but it was Paul Ryan who publically spoke out against Trump on the Arpaio pardon, and it was Tillerson who said publically that Trump speaks for himself on values. 

 

You can accuse the left leaning media of doing their best to knock Trump down, but at this point all the media has to do is pile on. It's the GOP themselves that are making the public QB sacks.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/27/politics/tillerson-trump-speaks-for-himself/

[Buffy]

Didn't Trump say he wasn't going to take the yearly Presidential salary of 400K per year?

Yep, and he's made a big deal about where he was "donating" his check. He's given a donation of his first quarter salary of $78k--NOTE: that's *after taxes*--to the National Park Service.

 

Of course his budget is cutting the Interior Department--that includes the Park Service which is about 20% of the Interior expenditures--budget by $1.5 billion.

 

I don't know, it just makes no sense for him to want to obtain money illegally.

 

You're under the mistaken impression that he is *actually rich*, and while he has very high cash flow, independent research--which Mueller is following--indicates he is highly dependent on cash flow from all sorts of seedy sources, and that what capital he does have is balanced by very high levels of debt. He says he's worth $10B, but most of that turns out to be how he valuates his "brand" and most recent estimates from Forbes, Bloomberg, et.al. (not liberal) put his worth at about $2B. But those all estimate his debt pretty close to what he claims is only $50M, while recent investigations have uncovered at least $650B, and that's only the stuff they've found so far, and he may only have $70M in liquid assets, making him a piker among the actually rich.

 

No wonder they don't invite him to fundraisers at The Met.

 

Of course we've known for a while that Trump has a 19% stake in Rosneft if he gets sanctions lifted, and we found out today that Putin apparently substituted that for the failed attempt at building a Trump Moscow Hotel that was being worked on during the election....

 

Stefan Molyneux might do the same too. 

More proof that your sources of information are basically comic books. You should consider upgrading.

 

 

In terms of high-end product influx into the United States, Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets; say in Dubai, and certainly with our project in SoHo and anywhere in New York. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia, :phones:

Buffy

[Maine farmer]

Didn't Trump say he wasn't going to take the yearly Presidential salary of 400K per year? 

 

I don't know, it just makes no sense for him to want to obtain money illegally. 

 

Stefan Molyneux might do the same too. 

Trump obviously believes that he is above the law.  Didn't you hear him say that he could commit murder and his supporters would be okay with it?

[serenesam]

Trump obviously believes that he is above the law.  Didn't you hear him say that he could commit murder and his supporters would be okay with it?

Check these out:

 

http://www.wnd.com/2016/08/clinton-death-list-33-most-intriguing-cases/

http://www.wnd.com/2017/05/chilling-similarities-between-seth-rich-murder-and-clinton-body-count-victims/

 

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/BODIES.php#axzz4rAWInPIW

[Buffy]

Check these out:

http://www.wnd.com/2016/08/clinton-death-list-33-most-intriguing-cases/

http://www.wnd.com/2017/05/chilling-similarities-between-seth-rich-murder-and-clinton-body-count-victims/

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/BODIES.php#axzz4rAWInPIW

 

Dude, WorldNetDaily is pure fantasy.

 

For the rest of you, TL;DR. They constantly claim that the Clinton's personally killed more people than Al Capone and all the Mafia dons since.

 

But the Seth Rich thing is beyond the pale. If you believe this stuff, you're not just a conspiracy theorist, you're a sociopath. If you can't believe his own mother, you're not just wrong, you're a danger to society: here's what she had to say about the "lies" surrounding the conspiracy theories (and sourced from Fox News so there's at least a slight chance you won't call it "fake news").

 

You'll probably think that this is a false flag and that it really isn't his mother. Sick.

 

And of course the only reason you're bringing this up is that the nuts love it, so this poor family has to keep responding. 

 

If you want to find out what's really wrong with America and you believe this bullshit, seriously, just look in the mirror.

 

 

The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis, :phones:

Buffy

[serenesam]

It's interesting that Michael Moore thinks Trump will get re-elected in 2020:

 

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/08/28/michael-moore-trump-will-win-re-election-unless-undercut-electoral-college/

[Buffy]

It's interesting that Michael Moore thinks Trump will get re-elected in 2020:

 

This may be difficult for you to comprehend, but Michael isn't saying that's a good thing.

 

 

You survive by having your fear compass calibrated correctly. Our compass is off now because we're being told to be afraid of everything, :phones:

Buffy

[serenesam]

This may be difficult for you to comprehend, but Michael isn't saying that's a good thing.

 

 

You survive by having your fear compass calibrated correctly. Our compass is off now because we're being told to be afraid of everything, :phones:

Buffy

Well, he is a hardcore Democrat so of course he think's it's bad.